what is legal and what is not in regards to copyrights

Hi.

Can anyone tell me what is legal, and what is not in regards to backing up dvdr media withing in the copyrights law.

Thanks to all that reply.

Fair use clauses in current copywrite laws dictate that it is legal to make a copy of any media you have legally purchased and own for backup purposes. You can't distribute the copies or share them, but you can make a backup copy for yourself, to be used if the original is damaged.

From the responses above its clear to see that there is a lot of confusion on this subject Another thing to take into consideration that a long of the advice in this forum is based on US law simply because the majority of the members (especially those who have lot of knowledge in this area) are based in the US.

As far as UK law goes it is illegal to circumvent the copyright protection on a DVD. UK copyright law is very strict compared to many other countries. In the UK it is illegal to copy your CD on to tape to play in the car but I doubt that anyone would ever be prosecuted for it. Likewise , while it is illegal to make a back up of a DVD you own a copy of, pragmatism dictates that you would be very unlucky to be prosecuted. This is of course until you make a dozen copies to give to friends and family or sell at a car boot sale.

Sorry this isn't very clear cut (I'm not a lawyer either) but this is how I undersand the situation.

- e404pnf

Originally Posted by Lennoxtown

Hi.

Can anyone tell me what is legal, and what is not in regards to backing up dvdr media withing in the copyrights law.

Thanks to all that reply.

DVDr by it's nature has no copyrights. There is no information contained on a DVDr when purchased. These are blank media that are referred to as DVD Recordable. Why you would want to backup blank media is beyond me, but you can legally do so without violating any copyright.

I suspect you meant purchased DVD Video or DVD-ROM Discs. if so, most carry a specific track detailing copyright information. You would need to read each and every copyright detail and possibly look up referenced laws depending on the copyright for the discs. In general, it is illegal to copy any commerically available DVD media even for backup purposes. Fair use law does not cover backups, but something else entirely. You can be punished by up to $250,000 or 5 years in jail for each copyright offense. If you are worried about scratching your media you may want to shop around and find the best price for the media you want to backup. Even at $20 a disc times 2, that's certain better than a felony conviction stigma plus the fines and jail time you will serve.

Originally Posted by GreyDeath

If Hollywood had their way, they'd make us pay for one DVD for each separate DVD player we want to watch the movie on

I believe Hollywood tried something similar to that back when DVD was making its debut. DVD's competitor Divx was based on a pay per view system.

The music industry is slowly realizing that prosecution of theft is valid. Nobody has won a single case and the industry has recouped thousands of dollars for their artists from those who would steal their product. Making backups isn't necessarily stealing but it is a violation of the law. If doing the Jenny Jones show because you are a convicted felon with spongebob as your accessory is appealing to you, so be it, but most people read and understand what those copyright screens say. Hopefully the next gen media will further assist the consumer and the artist by assuring that everyone enjoys their media legally and fairly. Nobody would recommend you buy two copies of a movie you don't care for(craptastic) but those movie you do like, if you want to ensure you are complying with all local, state, federal, and international laws, consider it an investment in your assured place by not appearing on such daytime trash shows.

Here's the long and short of it, copyright law makes all unauthorized copying prohibited by default and then lays out specific and express exceptions to this. All countries that have copyright laws operate this way. So the question is what your country makes exceptions for. In the UK there is an exception for personal copying of your computer software but not for audio (CD) or audio/visual works (VHS, DVD, etc..). And yes your legislators, and those of all other countries with this exception, have made it clear that "computer software" does not include audio/visual works such as DVDs but it does usually include console video games.

In the US there is an exception for computer software and musical recordings (CDs) but none for audio visual works.

That fact is that audio/visual works are granted the most protection under copyright law because of the fact that they typically involve the greatest investment.

Some countries such as Canada do have a general backup right for all or at least most types of media but they charge a tax on recordable media to subsidize the affected industries. The US's right to backup CDs also brings with it a tax on the affected recording hardware and media (Music CDRs...not regular CDrs).

I hate to be so harsh but the whole Fair Use right to backup media is really not much more than an internet rumor propogated by sites that simply believe people should have a right to backup their media, but don't have any legal evidence to support that belief. Fair Use, though broad and vague, is still a fairly standardized concept insofar as what it DOESN'T cover, due to the fact that it is part of widespread international treaties (first Berne and now TRIPS) and what is universally clear is that Fair Use only exempts partial copying. It was never intended to be used for archival purposes, its purpose is to further art by allowing others to sample art in creating their own, and it also is intended to be used for educational purposes. I'm not aware of a Fair Use right to backup in ANY country in the world. Those countries that grant archival rights do so by express copyright statutes.

Originally Posted by GreyDeath

So I make a backup of my TV DVDs with the menus stripped out. Buying another DVD set is not going to help me there, and legally what I've done I can be fined or jailed. That seem right to you?

The strictly legal answer is that you can be sued for damages (civil), not fined or put in jail (criminal). Criminal copyright infringement requires willful monetary gain or substantial willfull infringing. In the US its $1000 worth of copying during any 180 day period....so if you copy one DVD here and there for personal use it will never subject you to criminal damages but strictly speaking you are infringing copyrights on a civil level.

The realistic answer, and the one people need to realize, is this. Copyright Law is considered broad law, like taxes. It defers generally to one party or the other, in this case the copyright holder, and then delienates specific exceptions to this general protection. Such exceptions are not added lightly for fear they will undermine the overall statute.

On some issues Congress just has to generally say no you can't do any of it...because if we permit this small segment of behavior everyone will claim THAT's why they are doing it. Consider Macrovision as an example. The DMCA expressly made it an infringement to bypass it generally for any purpose. In the Legislative notes the drafters noted that a very small segment of the population (fraction of a percent) had purchased certain tv's that could not properly display a macrovisioned signal at all. The result is that commercial DVDs and VHS were useless to these people unless they used macrovision removal tools. Congress determined that the interests of these few did not warrant an exception because then the entire act would be useless. The whole point was to make macrovision removal tools illegal and anyone could just manufacture and sell them and claim they were only for that limited purpose.

Audio/visual works like DVDs are by far the most strongly protected works under copyright. Countries are just reluctant to give an inch on an issue unless they are willing to give a mile. So most forms of personal copying are prohibited and the consolation and justification is just that laws against this type of behavior are simply never enforced. No one has ever been sued for backing up a DVD for personal use or for making an altered copy to remove a menu or feature. But the general prohibition on such activity allows copyright holders to go after manufacturers of infringing hardware/software even if they CAN be used for certain innocuous copying.

Well that's not the advice that I would give him. I would say that since he now knows the general legalities he should just let his conscience be his guide.

Ha, ha, GreyDeath has it right--Lennoxtown hasn't been back here and probably won't be, after all this legalese (which he "asked for" of course).

In the U.S. there are a number of at-home things which may be illegal to do, but if you do them in the privacy of your own home, and don't tell anyone about them, who's to know and thus who will "come after you"?

If all you're truly doing is backing-up media you have legally purchased (not rented or borrowed or bought-and-returned etc.) and you're only making back-up copies to play, to keep your originals safe (from the destructive kiddies, perhaps) then Interpol is not going to bother knocking your door down.

OTOH if you are renting-and-copying or making copies for your friends or loaning these "back-ups" to others or playing them in your pub or restaurant then you're asking for trouble. If it finds you, you deserve it!

Originally Posted by MaxBlack

If all you're truly doing is backing-up media you have legally purchased (not rented or borrowed or bought-and-returned etc.) and you're only making back-up copies to play, to keep your originals safe (from the destructive kiddies, perhaps) then Interpol is not going to bother knocking your door down.

OTOH if you are renting-and-copying or making copies for your friends or loaning these "back-ups" to others or playing them in your pub or restaurant then you're asking for trouble. If it finds you, you deserve it!

That's exactly the principle I work on. It may not be legal to back up your DVDs, but it is certainly not immoral.

I have my own DVD and especially old VHS for kids and want to make backup copy. To do it I pay for some special device ( in my case *******doesn't matter) and this turns me to be a criminal, right?
Hmm....
And what about presumption of innocence, why should I prove that my copieas are legal. I want them to prove that I'm going to sell them and only then prevent my recording.

I just love an industry that works overtime to abuse and punish its customers. The DMCA is an abonimation - and all elected representatives of the people in countries who duplicate it to abuse thier own citizens should be voted out of office. There are few organizations on this planet more deserving of extinction than the RIAA and MPAA and their cloned counterparts in various other countries.
Don't get me wrong - I have no sympathy for folks setting up shop in their basements to duplicate and sell copyrighted material to the general public.
But, that is a far cry from the casual user who makes copies of legitimately owned material for their own personal purposes.
In the long run - the music and movie industry is doing themselves more harm than good by insulting, abusing and driving away their customers.
They are doomed given the path they have chosen.
There are 3 music cd's I would have purchased this coming week - except they are polluted with copy protection software that will try to install themselves on my computers. I refuse to purchase such nonsense.
I have scaled back my purchases of cd's and dvd's by at least 80% as a result of the most recent efforts to put out non-standard and abusive products. Let the MPAA and RIAA add that to their "losses due to copying" equation . . . .