I have a deal for a Sony HDR-HC3 for 350$ CDN, need quick advice

[DavidOBE]

Hello all,

I found someone who is selling a Sony HDR-HC3 for 350$ CDN. I checked the review and the price of this camcorder and I believe it is a really good deal.

However, it would be my first camcorder, I wanted one that was HD and didn't want to pay much for it either. That deal is a gift for christmas.

The guy is proposing to go see me during my lunch time at my job and I proposed him to meet me at the mall just 2 minutes from my job and I am waiting his feedback but my guess is that he would agree, he look very determined to sell it tomorrow.

My questions for you all is this:

What should I check to make sure everything is in order and I don't get not working?

Here's what I asked:

- The receipt. He confirmed to have it and it was bought at Microbytes and it is supposed to still be under warranty until October 2009.
- The box (if he still have it)
- A MiniDV tape so I can test the camcorder at the mall.

I don't know much what to check though and I will rely on him to show me that it is working fine, but I would like some tips for things that I should verify to make sure.

I just hope this deal is real! I am going on vacation next summer and want to take everything in video!

Thanks again!

[Soopafresh]

Yeah, that's a pretty good deal. It's HDV, which is cool and yes, make sure you can insert and remove a DV tape from the device. That's where the problem (if any) would lurk. Record some footage and play it back through the LCD.

Remember, if you're the slightest bit hesitant, there's always another good deal around the corner. As the economy continues to languish, people will be selling lots of these items.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2K0lJoZBac

[edDV]

One common failure is a fried I-Link (aka Firewire, IEEE-1394) port. This is used to transfer video to a computer. A failed port is expensive to repair.

You could take a laptop with a Firewire (IEEE-1394) port or go to an Apple store and have them show you a transfer.

Also, make sure the lens zooms to full range. Look for evidence of hard use.

Expect to buy a new battery. That cam dates to around 2006.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-HC3-Camcorder-Review.htm

$350 is a good price.

[DavidOBE]

I talked to the guy on the phone today and he was supposed to show up at my work instead but he never came and never called back.

When I talked to him, he seemed pretty busy with christmas shopping, so that might explain why.

I hope he call back so I can play with this little guy during the vacations!

Regards

[zoobie]

If you ever meet, he'll just show you how it works rather than let you fumble with it for hours

all the ports need to be checked which will probably be impossible in a few minutes
...especially if one doesn't work because he'll have forgotten to bring the cables...

the focus does screw up...look in my sig

also, the warranty may not be transferable...these little cams are expensive to get fixed

sorry...just being realistic

it's a crap shoot and you take your chances...after all, it's just a used cam

[edDV]

Remember you can get a far superior new Canon HV20/30 for about double that price if you shop carefully.

If this guy calls back negotiate a lower price and have him come to you.

[Soopafresh]

Speaking of the HV20 - $444 at Oncecall.com

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=92302

[kippard]

Nice one, Soop. I'm thinking of switching over to the HV20 (versus my HVR-Z1U) with a 35mm lens adapter for the next film. Any adapter and lens buying ideas? Thank you!

[edDV]

Nice one, Soop. I'm thinking of switching over to the HV20 (versus my HVR-Z1U) with a 35mm lens adapter for the next film. Any adapter and lens buying ideas? Thank you!

I wouldn't say the HV20/30 is a replacement for a Z1U but it is a good supplement. It depends what you're doing.

[kippard]

It's just that I'm making features and it seems 24p w/ a 35mm lens is where I should go. Thanks, ed.

[Soopafresh]

Intro to 35mm lens adapters http://www.vimeo.com/1280517

The 3 drawbacks of DOF adapters are 1) Light Loss , 2) Upside Down Image while shooting, 3) Softness of the final product


Low End: JAG35 http://web.me.com/jehug/JAG35.com/Welcome.html

footage:
http://www.vimeo.com/1740574


High End: Letus35 mini http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/letus35-mini.html
Letus takes care of the upside down image by using a prism to make it right side up.



And best (so far): The Canon 5D MKII Camera (if you've got $2700 plus cost for the 35mm lenses). No light loss, upside down image, etc.

http://vimeo.com/Canon5DMKII/page:2


http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=4431

[kippard]

Awesome, Soop! Thanks. What about lenses? Can you use 35mm still camera lenses? Film camera lenses only? How about support rod systems for the JAG35? Do you have to buy the Letus support rod system for the Letus35? Also, can you really shoot a feature on the 5D MKII - what are the storage and format specs? Thank you! Happy day!

[edDV]

Also, can you really shoot a feature on the 5D MKII - what are the storage and format specs? Thank you! Happy day!

You would need to do separate sound. These cameras don't support timecode so sync sound is out.

No optical stabilization. No motorized zoom. No focus pull.

Video format is h.264 and all the fun that implies.

These cams are best used as supplements to a real video camcorder. They can get special B roll shots that fall outside the capability of say a Canon XL-H1.

[Soopafresh]

You don't have to buy the rod system for the Letus35 Mini, (which is the model you'd want for the 43mm thread of the HV20 and HV30), although it's not a bad idea and would eliminate some worry. See pics on the bottom of this page:

http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/letus35-mini.html

You can get low cost rails from here: http://indifocus.com/products_indirailspro.htm

The lenses are your choice, except you need to specify to letus the brand you'll be using because the mounting connectors are all different - Nikon, Canon, etc . You can buy mounting adapters for different brands for $40.

Here are specific lenses which are known to work. You shouldn't use anything slower than an F2.8 lens - too much light loss. http://lenses35.com/ Autofocus lenses don't work.

I like this clip shot with the HV20 and a Nikon 50mm f1.8D lens . You can get that lens for $100 anywhere

http://www.vimeo.com/1717886

Finally, Philip Bloom demos the Letus Extreme which is for larger cameras
http://www.vimeo.com/1114483

[kippard]

Great stuff. Thank you. I'm going to do this for the next film - as you said, it will be better than the first (technically). But tell me a few other obvious things: is the upside down image any problem for shooting only or post as well? What are the shooting modes of the HV20? What do I do with my shotgun and XLRs? Thhhanks!

[edDV]

The HV20/30 are probably the lowest price camcorders with pro style adjustable audio.

By that I mean a non-AGC mode and manually adjustable. Also has a peak meter in the viewfinder (invaluable). Downside is you are limited to single stereo pair i/o while recording and hi impednce only. You can add a BeachTek Adapter or Shure tranformer to adapt XLR 600ohm pro mics.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa2s.html
http://www.sjmediasystem.com/a96f.html

[Soopafresh]

Unfortunately, the upside down image is during shooting, which makes focusing and following movement really difficult. This is NOT the case with the Letus because the installed prism sets everything right side up.

[kippard]

Thank you both. Any other links, lens recommendations, demos, etc. are welcome. I wish I had put this together for the first film. What about a lens hood for the Nikon 50mm? Needed?

[Soopafresh]

Building a Rig http://www.vimeo.com/919639

http://hv20.com/forumdisplay.php?s=eee7d4c905fe5f02166cb5b01f580a19&f=21

Hague Mini Motion Steadicam $150 http://www.vimeo.com/2074009

52mm Wide Angle Lens $40 http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/sc/from-froogle.asp?id=964738291&rf=froogle&dfdate=12_24_2008

DIY Follow Focus http://www.vimeo.com/980538

Windjammer for mic: http://www.micover.com/store/ (play the video at the bottom of the page)

4 Hr Battery: http://www.nextag.com/597733811p/prices-html?nxtg=8d8d0a28050a-5074ADE307B740B2

[kippard]

Bless you, Soop. (Still have to check these links out.) Did Canon imagine this indies film hack/tweak phenomenon making the HV20?

[Soopafresh]

There must not be enough of a profit to include advanced features for the budding cinematographer, at least not at that price point. And as cool as all the third party HV20 and HV30 add-ons are, it's still a lot like trying to turn a Volkswagen into a Porsche - you kind of end up with a weird looking Volkswagen. The next big breakthrough (I hope) in camcorders will be shallow DOF, whether it's built in or a simple way to attach a 35mm lens. We're already seeing that on the 5D MKII, it's just a matter of time before these features become commonplace. The manufacturers have to move forward, otherwise there won't be reasons to buy a new camcorder.

[kippard]

52mm Wide Angle Lens $40 http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/sc/from-froogle.asp?id=964738291&rf=froogle&dfdate=12_24_2008

Are you saying I need a wide angle lens? This is added to the Nikon 50mm f1.8D lens?

A "a weird looking Volkswagen" is what I can afford, and better than a Volkswagon - I'm sure you agree. I'm still checking the links...

[Soopafresh]

I'm guessing you'll use your camcorder for some wide sweeping shots that won't require shallow DOF, hence the wide angle lens suggestion.

[kippard]

Tony Reale's rig is great - really enjoyed that video. Any opinion of the HV20's CINE setting? Also, 1080/30F, 1080/24F, is this just so I don't have to work with a 1080/24P project in post? Does 24F look the same as 24P? Thanks.

[Soopafresh]

You'll have to experiment with the gamma and color settings that suit your eye. http://www.vimeo.com/817589

As far as 24p vs 24f, Pete Bauer sums it up at http://www.dvinfo.net//conf/showthread.php?t=74964

Not so short answer -- neither is "better."

24F is a term Canon uses for its method of creating 23.976fps video using interlaced CCDs. F-mode processes the image (by means as yet undisclosed) from an interlaced CCD to produce a progessive-frame video file. For HDV, it lays the image to the tape as a true 23.976fps file, not 60i pull-down as is done in most "affordable" 24p cameras. So editing software that handles 24F puts it on a 24fps timeline without having to do pulldown processing, but otherwise exactly like typical 24p-from-60i video. If you use HD-SDI to get full raster 4:2:2 video or use composite-out, the 24F will leave the camera as 60i 3:2 pull-down.

So 24F and 24p are just two flavors of 24fps video. One's not a substitute for the other, and neither is inherently "better." They are just two different means of creating a 23.976fps video file. That's all. The resolution, image detail, latitude, color space, color rendition/depth, etc are dependent on the hardware and software used. The 24F from the XL H1 has as good or better image detail as any currently competing camera, but each camera has it's own particular strengths and each shooter has his/her own particular likes, so I think "better" is a rather meaningless word in the endless 24F vs 24p measurebation.

[kippard]

The HV20/30 are probably the lowest price camcorders with pro style adjustable audio.

By that I mean a non-AGC mode and manually adjustable. Also has a peak meter in the viewfinder (invaluable). Downside is you are limited to single stereo pair i/o while recording and hi impednce only. You can add a BeachTek Adapter or Shure tranformer to adapt XLR 600ohm pro mics.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa2s.html
http://www.sjmediasystem.com/a96f.html

I think all I'm going to need is the Shure tranformer. An XLR to 3.5 mm adapter is not enough? "...distortion due to the d.c. bias?"

Thanks for clearing up 24F (sort of), Soop. And thanks, ed.

[edDV]

The HV20/30 are probably the lowest price camcorders with pro style adjustable audio.

By that I mean a non-AGC mode and manually adjustable. Also has a peak meter in the viewfinder (invaluable). Downside is you are limited to single stereo pair i/o while recording and hi impednce only. You can add a BeachTek Adapter or Shure tranformer to adapt XLR 600ohm pro mics.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa2s.html
http://www.sjmediasystem.com/a96f.html

I think all I'm going to need is the Shure tranformer. An XLR to 3.5 mm adapter is not enough? "...distortion due to the d.c. bias?"

Thanks for clearing up 24F (sort of), Soop. And thanks, ed.

The adapter, isolates DC, changes impedance from 600 ohm to high, boosts level and changes balanced to unbalanced. All necessary. This assumes you want to use pro mics.