Mini DV to Digital Transfer Dissatisfaction

[btvarner]

Wonder if it would be beneficial to post this on Tom's Hardware forum?

[Bernix]

Can you try if card is working on some older computer? At least with win10? To know if card is faulty or not.

[btvarner]

Don't have any old PC's, other than laptops......

[dellsam34]

It's obviously the firewire card has issues or it is not compatible with your system, don't try to work around a faulty card, your bios should function with factory setting with most expansion cards. Try to return the card and get a different model, I know this process is frustrating but patience is the key here.

There are two other options if you chose not to continue in the expansion card route, One of which is the Pinnacle USB-500 or USB-700 analog capture boxes that can transfer DV over USB port, these are hard to setup correctly under newer platforms due to lack of drivers. The other option is get a DV camcorder that can transfer DV footage over USB, this should work under newer platforms.

[btvarner]

OK, beginning to wonder if this whole process is worth it. I solved the inability to install the Firewire card by updating the BIOS. That is done now. The VIA 1394 OHCI controller appears in Device Manager. Now on to what software to use for the transfer/capture. I have on my machine: VLC Media Player & OBS Studio. Many problems.

1) Neither software recognizes or finds the camcorder (Yes is is connected, turned on, in playback mode, & appears in Device Manager)
2) OBS is getting on my nerves. Most of the time it launches in Task manager & consumes resources. But never appears on screen. Repeated attempts result in no joy. Often have to wait until later, or the next day & it is more likely to open at that time. Guess that is not important since it does not find the "device" anyway.

Question: What software should I use for this transfer? Any idea why no software sees the plugged int camcorder?

Thanks!

[Alwyn]

On on! WinDV is the go. Scenalyzer is better, but flaky on Win 11. My guide for WinDV is here.

WinDV (and Scenalyzer) are transfer programs: they transfer the DV, untouched, which will be loved by PE.

OBS recodes the video on the fly. It is considered to be a substandard method.

[btvarner]

Before I install this WinDV, can I have too many of the same type software on my PC? I have OBS Studio, VLC, & AVS Video Converter. Could these be conflicting with each other? Should I uninstall any/all before installing WinDV? Thanks again!

[Alwyn]

Nah, leave it all on. WinDV doesn't install, per se, it just runs direct from the exe file.

[btvarner]

Must be another issue. WinDV has the same problem that OBC has. Opens & is running in Task Manager but never appears on the screen................

[Alwyn]

Hmm, that's odd. Nothing on the task bar? Are you running it as Admin?

[Sharc]

Reboot your PC

[Alwyn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

[Sharc]

... or check in taskmanager/processes whether another instance of the same application is still silently running (not terminated properly). Kill it in taskmanager or reboot.

[btvarner]

Running as admin. Rebooted several times. Only one instance running at a time.

[Alwyn]

Something weird going on with your system, methinks. WinDV's old, but OBS should fire up and display like a normal program.

Try Scenalyzer. My guide here.

[dellsam34]

Reboot the computer and before you do anything go to device manager and look for the firewire card if it is listed there, then connect your camcorder to the firewire if it is not connected yet and turn it on, you should see something changes in the device manager when you turn the camera on, If nothing happens or the card is not in the list, it could be the reason why WinDV won't start properly. I would use Sclive instead of WinDV anyway.

[rgr]

When displaying accordingly all the proportions are respected (in fact it sould be cropped to 704x480 to be really accurate, but that's another story)

There is no need, especially since DV cameras recorded in full frame 720x576 (or 720x480). Just save with PAR 16:15 (for PAL, for NTSC I don't remember).

[btvarner]

Neither WinDV or ScenalyzerLive 4.0 will capture any video. Both produce errors. Nor do they display any footage in the apps. My camcorder is able to be seen in Device Manager. I followed Alwyn’s guides for both these apps. See Image Below:


[Attachment 84252 - Click to enlarge]

[Alwyn]

That Scenalyzer result could be promising. The "disk full" message is a known issue. Have a look right down the bottom of my Scenalyzer page here. One option is to capture to another drive.

[btvarner]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the input. I am done. I will live with the crappy videos I was able to capture via RCA cables & the capture device cable. It is very obvious that NO ONE has been able to successfully get any of these Firewire methods to reliably & regularly work. At least in Windows 11. Spending many days attempting fixes, when only 1 1/2 hours of tape copying is all I needed in total, is no longer worth it.

The only thing to do now is hope I can get the 3 or 4 hours of VHS tapes I need copied, completed successfully via the capture cable...... We will see.

Admins might want to place this thread somewhere it can be easily found & read by other poor suckers thinking of going down this path. Thanks!

[Alwyn]

It is very obvious that NO ONE has been able to successfully get any of these Firewire methods to reliably & regularly work. At least in Windows 11.

No, it works on other systems, just not yours.

[Sharc]

The only thing to do now is hope I can get the 3 or 4 hours of VHS tapes I need copied, completed successfully via the capture cable...... We will see.

Take a break, and then revisit the process of your post #1. There are some flaws in your workflow. It's not necessary to produce crap. Re-read post #4. If done right you can get very decent results taking the analog (S-video or even Composite) route. It's up to you of course.
I don't know MovAvi. Can you upload a sample of the 720x480 capture of your step e)?

[rgr]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the input. I am done. I will live with the crappy videos I was able to capture via RCA cables & the capture device cable. It is very obvious that NO ONE has been able to successfully get any of these Firewire methods to reliably & regularly work. At least in Windows 11. Spending many days attempting fixes, when only 1 1/2 hours of tape copying is all I needed in total, is no longer worth it.

The only thing to do now is hope I can get the 3 or 4 hours of VHS tapes I need copied, completed successfully via the capture cable...... We will see.

Admins might want to place this thread somewhere it can be easily found & read by other poor suckers thinking of going down this path. Thanks!

First, check if you can control the camera at all from WinDV or Scenalyzer (rewinding, etc.)
And check on a recorder (DVD Recorder) with a DV input if the camera works properly at all.

[Alwyn]

Re-read post #4.

The way I'm reading things, the problem is that Premier Pro is limited in what it will input, hence the convoluted MP4 workflow.

[Sharc]

Re-read post #4.

The way I'm reading things, the problem is that Premier Pro is limited in what it will input, hence the convoluted MP4 workflow.

Possibly, but we don't actually know. Therefore I suggested to trace the intermediate results step by step.

[akkers]

I cant help noticing SCenanylser stopped because disk was full. Have you checked your disk space?
Sometimes it gives misleading messages or wont save to certain drives. Try another drive.

[The_Doman]

I cant help noticing SCenanylser stopped because disk was full. Have you checked your disk space?
Sometimes it gives misleading messages or wont save to certain drives. Try another drive.

Yes, that annoying issue comes back from time to time.
See this topic for some suggestions:

Scenalyzer reports full disk

[SF01]

When displaying accordingly all the proportions are respected (in fact it sould be cropped to 704x480 to be really accurate, but that's another story)

Just save with PAR 16:15 (for PAL, for NTSC I don't remember).

No. This is not how ITU-R REC.601 works. The SAR (Sample Aspect Ratio, not Pixel Aspect Ratio, Pixel is a pixel, square, end of story) of 4:3 PAL ITU-R REC.601 compliant video is 128:117.

[rgr]

The SAR (Sample Aspect Ratio, not Pixel Aspect Ratio, Pixel is a pixel, square, end of story)

SAR = Storage Aspect Ratio
"Definition: SAR (Storage Aspect Ratio) is the width and height of a video frame expressed as a ratio. For example, a video frame with a width of 720 pixels and height of 480 pixels (720x480) would have a SAR of 3:2."

What is that in the black frame?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/PAR-2to1.svg/1920px-PAR-2to1.svg.png

of 4:3 PAL ITU-R REC.601 compliant video is 128:117.

So that this is still observed. I have to finally film the circle with my camera sometime. And I will know what the actual PAR is (at least according to Sony).

[SF01]

The SAR (Sample Aspect Ratio, not Pixel Aspect Ratio, Pixel is a pixel, square, end of story)

SAR = Storage Aspect Ratio
"Definition: SAR (Storage Aspect Ratio) is the width and height of a video frame expressed as a ratio. For example, a video frame with a width of 720 pixels and height of 480 pixels (720x480) would have a SAR of 3:2."

What is that in the black frame?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/PAR-2to1.svg/1920px-PAR-2to1.svg.png

of 4:3 PAL ITU-R REC.601 compliant video is 128:117.

So that this is still observed. I have to finally film the circle with my camera sometime. And I will know what the actual PAR is (at least according to Sony).

As per Wikipedia "PAR is also known as sample aspect ratio and abbreviated SAR, though it can be confused with storage aspect ratio." Storage Aspect Ratio reffers to the entire frame, Sample Aspect Ratio to individual sample. Pixels are used more with HD video, such as HDV where it's 1,33:1, which coincidentally expands from 1440x1080 to 1920x1080. Sample Aspect Ratio is used more commonly with SD materials, and comes directly from ITU-R REC.601 which specifies the sampling frequrency of 13,5 MHz resulting in 720 samples per line of video, hence SD video in D1 resolution has 720 samples horizontally, not all of them being the active image area, although most if not all DV camcorders utilise the entire number of samples.

The circle test was done already on this forum, or digitalfaq, the results were conclusive, DV is cully compatible with ITU-R REC.601 and thus compatible when converting to other formats, such as DVD. HDV downscaling to DV on the other hand is not.