VHS RIP capture differs from TV

[bozhinov]

Hello,

I have 3 PAL_B tapes that I m trying to rip that are giving me a headache
Different brands from obtained from different sources

I m using a TV+VCR device connected over S-Video to a ATI Wonder card 550 (will try and attach pictures)
The picture I see on the TV differs from what I see on the computer
everytime there is movement on the screen the picture on the PC gets distorted
sorts out during stills

I have tried:
- cleaning up the VCR using a tape
- using a different VCR
- using different software

http://bojinov.info/vhs/20240910_103705_1.gif
http://bojinov.info/vhs/20240910_103709.jpg

Please help
Momchil

[dellsam34]

What models VCRs have you used so far, Is any of them built in line TBC? TVs can handle video signal from tapes better than capture cards, So you would need a VCR built in TBC or a signal stabilizer in the capture chain.

[lollo]

Time base correction needed (at least)

(dellsam34 arrived first by few seconds)

[bozhinov]

Read few threads on this forum after I posted this one.
Came to the same conclusion. TBC for a start.

Great source of info. Thank you.
I thought forums were a thing of the past.

problem is VCRs with TBC run for about 250 euro and there are not many of them for sale.
I m better off sending the tapes to people that do this professionally.

dellsam34 your avatar came up during the research of the software alternative
I m gonna give VHS-Decode a try tomorrow.
I assume that's a fork of LD-Decode ?

[lordsmurf]

problem is VCRs with TBC run for about 250 euro and there are not many of them for sale.
...
I m gonna give VHS-Decode a try tomorrow.

If you can find a TBC for only 250, then that'll be far less costs, easier, and probably better quality (depends on gear in workflow). But which TBC is it? Not all are good for VHS work.

[VHSvideocapture]

If you can find a TBC for only 250, then that'll be far less costs, easier, and probably better quality (depends on gear in workflow). But which TBC is it? Not all are good for VHS work.

Finding a working TBC is difficult if it is available how do we know if it's the right one?
The black AVT tools 8710 has lots of negative forum posts.
The green AVT tools 8710 haa lots of positive forum posts.

The Datavideo 1000 TBC has mixed reviews
The Datavideo 3000 TBC has positive reviews but I'm sure you've mentioned something about changes in production.

The Datavideo 4000 TBC has positive reviews but it's hard to find.
The Datavideo 6000 TBC has positive reviews but its hard to find.
The Datavideo 7000 TBC has positive reviews but its hard to find.

The Datavideo 4000 , 6000 and 7000 are classed as professional TBC'S but the 1000 and 3000 are not what's the difference between them?

I'm sure I've read a post from you saying they are TBC100 PCI cards inside them all, only the TBC 7000 having a chroma key function like the DVK100 and DVK200 chromakey.

The Kramer FC400 is also another recommend one but it's hard to find but you said in your post that Kramer is weaker than the AVT tools and Datavideo. Nobody knows what to buy we keep being told what not to buy and not go on ebay.
Would it not be better to just use a Panasonic DVD recorder as pass through because it's cheaper?
Will it work like a TBC if the VCR has a TBC?

[bozhinov]

I see you went into the same rabbit hole I did

[Alwyn]

Would it not be better to just use a Panasonic DVD recorder as pass through because it's cheaper?

Yes. Here's what they do. A minor problem is that in some situations, they overboost the whites at bit. Adjust your proc amp brightness/contrast a bit (you should be checking/adjusting B and C anyway).

Will it work like a TBC if the VCR has a TBC?

If you use a DVD recorder as your stabiliser, turn off the VCR TBC. I read that somewhere.

[VHSvideocapture]

I see you went into the same rabbit hole I did

Yes it's very difficult because full frame TBC'S are not easily available nowadays.

[VHSvideocapture]

[QUOTE=Alwyn;2750210]
Yes. Here's what they do. A minor problem is that in some situations, they overboost the whites at bit. Adjust your proc amp brightness/contrast a bit (you should be checking/adjusting B and C anyway [\QUOTE]

Yes, I always adjust B and C since i started using graphstudio.
Thanks to you for helping me set it up.

If you use a DVD recorder as your stabiliser, turn off the VCR TBC. I read that somewhere.

Yes because they conflict with eachother but others say it can cause side effects like polarization compression in the color palette

[lordsmurf]

I see you went into the same rabbit hole I did

Yes it's very difficult because full frame TBC'S are not easily available nowadays.

This really isn't true. For example, I have two refurb'd TBCs available for sale at this very moment, and I ship worldwide.

What people often mean is that they can't find a TBC for the price of a cheeseburger, because they have odd notions (and based on nothing) about what quality AV/photo gear costs. If that's you, then correct, no TBCs exist.

[VHSvideocapture]

This really isn't true. For example, I have two refurb'd TBCs available for sale at this very moment, and I ship worldwide.

What people often mean is that they can't find a TBC for the price of a cheeseburger, because they have odd notions (and based on nothing) about what quality AV/photo gear costs. If that's you, then correct, no TBCs exist.

What TBC?
What price?
Nobody is wanting to buy a TBC for the price of a cheese burger, that comparison is rather unfair, unless a cheese burger costs more than $400 dollars, nobody will be paying a silly amount like $2k for a handful of home movies only but if the thread opener has 1000 VHS movies and he wants to do it himself then he can buy one.

It's quite a risk to buy a TBC in 2024 they are 20 years old used and abused.

I don't know how many tapes the thread opener has to convert, if it's only 1 or 2 I would just send the tapes to shop or the opener can try using a DVD recorder as pass through doing it himself.

[VHSvideocapture]

What people often mean is that they can't find a TBC for the price of a cheeseburger, because they have odd notions (and based on nothing) about what quality AV/photo gear costs. If that's you, then correct, no TBCs exist.

AVT TOOLS
Green sold for the price of a "cheeseburger"


[Attachment 82173 - Click to enlarge]

[lordsmurf]

nobody will be paying a silly amount like $2k

You speak only for yourself here, so you = nobody?

It's quite a risk to buy a TBC in 2024 they are 20 years old used and abused.

Correct, it is. This is why who/where you buy gear matters. Don't just grab unvetted devices from a typical eBay flipper, who doesn't know a TBC from a toaster.

I don't know how many tapes the thread opener has to convert, if it's only 1 or 2 I would just send the tapes to shop or the opener can try using a DVD recorder as pass through doing it himself.

I do not disagree. But then again, it depends on the value of the tape. I've dealt with orgs/people who have a seemingly infinite budget (and time) for the best extraction possible. Never assume.

AVT TOOLS
Green sold for the price of a "cheeseburger"

You apparently don't know how eBay's "best offer" works.

- For that AVT-8710, eBay sold listing says "Best offer accepted".
- The starting auction list price was for $150.
- It could have sold for $1000 or more, and probably did.
- And yet, eBay will end the listing with $150 shown as the "sale" price for auctions. The number is crossed out for fixed-price listings.

eBay also does not show returns, and which there are many for AV gear (because many of the sellers are liars and idiots). That seller put "Sold As IS with no returns", but the text is meaningless. That seller is a verified idiot from that alone. In most cases, it means the person has no idea if it even turns on, and is a month+ long eBay nightmare waiting to happen.

[cholla]

I will start with I'm not sure what I'm posting has much relevance to this topic.
It has been a long time since I converted a VHS tape to anything.
I have very few left as I disposed of most.

At one time I had a RCA camcorder that used VHS tapes.
A bulky unit to say the least. No firewire out or in on it.

I no longer have a SVHS player/recorder the one i had failed many years ago.

What I do have is:
INSIGNIA NS-DRVCR DVD Recorder/VCR
With COMPONENT VIDEO OUT & S-VIDEO OUT

Poloroid DVD Recorder with 80GB Hard Drive DRM-2001G
Component videos input
Component videos output (Y, Pr/Cr, Pb/Cb)
S-video input

If a VHS has MacroVision I have a Dimax Grex.

I write the copy to a DVD.
Then if I need to I rip this DVD to my PC.

[VHSvideocapture]

You speak only for yourself here, so you = nobody?

Most people 95 percent would not pay that kind of money.

If TBCS were in demand they would still be available today or some Chinese company would have made a clone by now like they have with the easycap capture cards, Amazon, ebay is flooded with them.

TVone USA were selling AVT tools its the clone of CTB100, the CTB100 was sold to many companies, in UK Europe companies were selling these as unbranded, Cypress distributors Letropack were distributing it themselves.
An Australian company called global video pro still have old AVT tools composite version only in stock (own brand cypress clones)


Datavideo stopped selling TBCS in 2015, the last model was the TBC5000 I think that is still available overseas, Datavideo has many branches and third party distributors worldwide. Datavideo Netherlands distributed all over Europe, it's a dead market that not many people are buying into because most people have finished VHS capture people that are doing it now don't have that much technical knowledge or did not know what waa needed for a good capture at the time

Correct, it is. This is why who/where you buy gear matters. Don't just grab unvetted devices from a typical eBay flipper, who doesn't know a TBC from a toaster.

It's worth the risk if cheap.$200 $300 because ebay let you return the item if hss issues
Not many other options are available or at least not cheep, private sellers are selling online but because of many fourms that rant and rave about how great the AVT tools green one is or the Datavideo ones are they go for a lot of money.

I do not disagree. But then again, it depends on the value of the tape. I've dealt with orgs/people who have a seemingly infinite budget (and time) for the best extraction possible. Never assume.

Then why not just send it to a reputable shop that does this buying something for $2000 for one tape is not very wise even if I was going to sell it on how do I know I'm going to make that money back?

You apparently don't know how eBay's "best offer" works.

- For that AVT-8710, eBay sold listing says "Best offer accepted".
- The starting auction list price was for $150.
- It could have sold for $1000 or more, and probably did.
- And yet, eBay will end the listing with $150 shown as the "sale" price for auctions. The number is crossed out for fixed-price listings.

eBay also does not show returns, and which there are many for AV gear (because many of the sellers are liars and idiots). That seller put "Sold As IS with no returns", but the text is meaningless. That seller is a verified idiot from that alone. In most cases, it means the person has no idea if it even turns on, and is a month+ long eBay nightmare waiting to happen.

I'm not sure how much it went for it could have been $400 but someone bought a TBC from ebay took the risk when you keep advising against it, could it be because you have a conflict of interest in this?

ebay seller sells the AVT tools 8710.green say for $1000 and Lordsmurff sells the same TBC for $2000, obviously the buyer will go with the cheaper option, this is why you often come up with caveats oh don't buy TBC 1000 from ebay faulty caps ebay sellers lie about replacing them buy from me. Don't buy the TBC 3000 it has had changes to production only I know what to lookout for when it comes to TBC 3000, the ebay ones are all bad you will be waiting your money.

[lordsmurf]

...

Just 9 months ago, you were a total video capture newbie.
Evidence: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/412708-Capturing-VHS-different-methods#post2716093
And now you think you know it all?
You don't know what you don't know, and the more you post the more obvious it becomes.

Most people 95 percent would not pay that kind of money.

Most people, 95%+, don't capture video either.

If TBCS were in demand they would still be available today

That's not true. The main reason that TBCs ended production is because the chips needed were no longer fabbed.

or some Chinese company would have made a clone by now like they have with the easycap capture cards, Amazon, ebay is flooded with them.

It's not that easy.

An Australian company called global video pro still have old AVT tools composite version only in stock (own brand cypress clones)

Those are the flawed "black" gen models, and why those do not sell well.

it's a dead market that not many people are buying into because most people have finished VHS capture

Correct.

people that are doing it now don't have that much technical knowledge or did not know what waa needed for a good capture at the time

Correct. And education fixed that.

It's worth the risk if cheap.$200 $300

You also risk time -- and sanity (nuisance, headache, aggravation, stress).

because ebay let you return the item if hss issues

Good luck with that. Casual and newbie eBay buyers do not know the risks involved. Sellers do lodge cases, and do win battles against buyers. It takes at least a month of time, and ties up your funds. Google it.

Not many other options are available or at least not cheep, private sellers are selling online but because of many fourms that rant and rave about how great the AVT tools green one is or the Datavideo ones are they go for a lot of money.

It's more complicated that that simplistic view. The units are both in demand, and suffering attrition of supply due to increasing failure rate.

Then why not just send it to a reputable shop that does this buying something for $2000 for one tape is not very wise

Some people/orgs value their videos. Clearly you do not.

even if I was going to sell it on how do I know I'm going to make that money back?

You talk about "risk" but this risk is less risky.

I'm not sure how much it went for

Correct, you have no idea -- unless the buyers messages you. And that happens! Perhaps if somebody were known for TBCs, and perhaps the buyer messaged this person for help, or tips, etc. And the somebody asked the buyer "where is this from? what did you pay?", and the buyer gives a link to the auction/whatever where bought. And perhaps the unit had a problem, and it was returned. Now who do I know that has shared decades of knowledge about TBCs online? Hmmm...

it could have been $400 but someone bought a TBC from ebay took the risk when you keep advising against it, could it be because you have a conflict of interest in this?

- Or perhaps I know the darker uglier side of eBay, having been a member since the 1990s.
- Or how almost all the units are now sold by "flippers" that don't know a TBC from a toaster, often lying about the condition or functionality.
- And having repeatedly been approached by gear buyers who got screwed there. (Many choose to PM, too embarrassed to post their mistake in public.)

FYI, the reason that I started to refurb gear for others (and yes, sell it to them, it ain't free), is precisely because I started to see how pitiful eBay had become for acquiring gear. Literally 80%+ of all VCRs there are now trash, most TBCs are botched in some way (flawed chips, failed DIY repairs, incomplete, etc), and the capture cards are jumbled up without boxes/docs (ie, versions).

ebay seller sells the AVT tools 8710.green say for $1000 and Lordsmurff sells the same TBC for $2000, obviously the buyer will go with the cheaper option,

"Obviously" nothing. There is a vast difference between a fully refurbished item, that comes with full support for usage -- and some dipstick on eBay that doesn't even know what it does. At some point, "in for a penny, in for a pound", it's about peace of mind. $1k to a total random unknown isn't the same as $2k to a known known.

oh don't buy TBC 1000 from ebay faulty caps

Correct. It's a problem. Even I now avoid DataVideo units, it's a mess, and it's costly to repair (or time consuming DIY). It's not ready-to-use gear, it's a project unto itself.

ebay sellers lie

Correct.

Don't buy the TBC 3000 it has had changes to production

Wrong. TBC-3000 has at least 5 versions, and that model is now suddenly experiencing a "ghost interlace" problem, even both of my units are affected. We have no confirmed reason what's wrong yet.

only I know what to lookout for when it comes to TBC 3000, the ebay ones are all bad you will be waiting your money.

Correct, very likely a bad unit now.

buy from me

Or another reputable individual, there's a few of us. For example, for refurb'd DataVideos, if that's what you want, get on Diopter_Doctor's wait list (PM him at digitalFAQ.com forum). I no longer offer DataVideo units, I'm focusing my TBC energy elsewhere.