Fine Audio but No Video from I-O Data GV-USB2

[Bobleflambeur]

Hi everyone!

I know the GV-USB2 is not highly regarded here but I still pulled the trigger on it, as I saw it as a good budget capture device without having to get into too many technical details (I was wrong.) and since I only need to digitize six Video8 and 11 VHS-C tapes, I said why not.

I tested all my tapes inside two camcorders. They play fine. Then I proceeded to actually play them on VirtualDub2, OBS and VLC but no matter what configuration I set, I simply can't get any frames out of the camcorders. The audio plays fine but the fps counter goes from 30 to 0 fps as soon as I start playing a tape.

The output in VDub2 looks like the following:


[Attachment 82008 - Click to enlarge]

It looks as if it only picks up a single frame and then dies out, going from the set fps to 0 instantly. Then, when I stop my tape, the fps counter goes immediately back to the set fps.

I know that my tapes are NTSC, however my Video8 camcorder (rental) is a Sony DCR-TRV345E PAL, so I tried many different configurations both with NTSC and PAL. I have tried different codecs, also the Ut Video suite. I tried both composite and S-video with no luck. Since I'm on Windows 10, I have enabled access to camera for all desktop apps. I played with different graphics cards (my integrated Intel and dedicated Nivdia RTX 2060 Max-Q). I tried different driver versions for the dongle and even tried everything on another PC. All this also applies to the Panasonic NV-S88 camcorder I'm using for VHS-C digitization, so I'm suspecting it's the capture card... or have I not set it up properly? What else is there to set up for a low-end capture card like this?

Am I overlooking something? Is the capture card the culprit? How can I check if I'm indeed getting signal from the cameras?

I would really appreciate any help!

[Alwyn]

Hold it. Correct me if I'm wrong but the S88 is PAL too. You're trying to play NTSC tapes in camcorders. Have you read the manuals; can they actually do that?

PS: There is only one person who hates on the GV-USB2.

[Alwyn]

I just checked the 345E manual; it's PAL only.

[Bobleflambeur]

Hold it. Correct me if I'm wrong but the S88 is PAL too. You're trying to play NTSC tapes in camcorders. Have you read the manuals; can they actually do that?

PS: There is only one person who hates on the GV-USB2.

Thank you so much for your reply!

Is there a difference between playing the tapes on the camcorder itself and actually trying to get output into a capture device? The tapes play really well on the camera. I just checked the manual and also confirmed that there is an NTSC playback mode where you can choose "On PAL TV" or NTSC 4.43. My Sony MP120 cassette says NTSC with an '8' next to it. Am I outta luck?

[Alwyn]

Missed that NTSC playback function.

Try this:

In VDub (with the GV-USB2 plugged in), when in Capture mode, go Video>Capture Filter. Then, on the Video Decoder tab, from the droplist to NTSC_433. If no joy, try the other options for the various systems. Generally, PAL_B will be OK for PAL. You may have to adjust the capture frame size to 720x480.

There are a couple of PAL60-NTSC443 experts here so if you still have trouble report back and they can help out.

BTW, the resident expert says that VDub 1.9.11 is the best capture program.

Others, including me, use AmarecTV. My guide here. Want the best of both worlds? Set your brightness and contrast using the VDub histogram, then capture with Amarec.

My Sony MP120 cassette says NTSC with an '8' next to it.

My understanding is that tape is tape. It's the camcorder that puts the squigglies on it in whatever format the camcorder records in. There aren't separate PAL and NTSC tapes AFAIK.

Manual:

[Attachment 82011 - Click to enlarge]
The first scenario doesn't apply in your case because your camera is PAL and you have NTSC tapes.

The second might/should work; the GV-USB2 will process either signal type. It just has to be set correctly in the device settings area.

[oln]

The Sony DCR-TRV345E should play NTSC tapes, though the TBC function does not work on NTSC playback so the result will not be as good as with PAL tapes. You want to use NTSC 4.43 mode and set the capture card to NTSC 4.43. (NTSC PB on PAL TV with the capture card set to PAL60 should also work but the color might be marginally worse.) It doesn't matter what the label tape says, it's what's recorded on it that matters, you can record PAL on tapes that say NTSC, so even though the tape says NTSC on the outside there can be a PAL recording on it.

If you want something that provides stabilization for NTSC playback on european gear passing the video via newer pioneer or sony dvd/HDD-recorders (standalone models only, not vcr/dvd combos, pioneer models from 2005 on, sonys from 2007 on) is a decent option, as these work with PAL60 and NTSC 4.43 and have a tbc type function in them. (Panasonic dvd-recorders that are commonly used for this only support standard NTSC so need a multi-system or US model VCR - all of them work for PAL as well of course).

I'm pretty sure the Panasonic NV-S88 is PAL only so so you will only be able to play PAL tapes in that one.

Are you sure you have set the video settings and format correctly in the device settings in virtualdub? Alternatively you can try with amarectv instead

[Bobleflambeur]

In VDub (with the GV-USB2 plugged in), when in Capture mode, go Video>Capture Filter. Then, on the Video Decoder tab, from the droplist to NTSC_433. If no joy, try the other options for the various systems. Generally, PAL_B will be OK for PAL. You may have to adjust the capture frame size to 720x480.

Thanks a lot for all the tips! However, I don't really understand what exactly you mean by other options. I tried NTSC 433 in both VDub2 and VDub 1.9.11 with no luck. In VDub 1.9.11, I even stopped getting the blue screen altogether because I changed Video from Overlay to Preview and now it shows nothing, just plays the audio The playback option in the camcorder must be set back to "On PAL TV" before trying the PAL options, right? PAL_B and PAL60 don't work.

On AmarecTV, I unfortunately keep getting the comma/period error, even though I changed the decimal symbol to period. I configured the settings as it was demonstrated in your guide, but I still get the error and a black screen instead of a blue one, and I don't get any audio or video signal whatsoever.

The latest version of VDub2 is now the only capture program that gives me video AND blue screen

Also, a question, is the location/directory where VDub/VDub2 is placed important?

[Bobleflambeur]

The Sony DCR-TRV345E should play NTSC tapes, though the TBC function does not work on NTSC playback so the result will not be as good as with PAL tapes. You want to use NTSC 4.43 mode and set the capture card to NTSC 4.43. (NTSC PB on PAL TV with the capture card set to PAL60 should also work but the color might be marginally worse.) It doesn't matter what the label tape says, it's what's recorded on it that matters, you can record PAL on tapes that say NTSC, so even though the tape says NTSC on the outside there can be a PAL recording on it.

If you want something that provides stabilization for NTSC playback on european gear passing the video via newer pioneer or sony dvd/HDD-recorders (standalone models only, not vcr/dvd combos, pioneer models from 2005 on, sonys from 2007 on) is a decent option, as these work with PAL60 and NTSC 4.43 and have a tbc type function in them. (Panasonic dvd-recorders that are commonly used for this only support standard NTSC so need a multi-system or US model VCR - all of them work for PAL as well of course).

I'm pretty sure the Panasonic NV-S88 is PAL only so so you will only be able to play PAL tapes in that one.

Are you sure you have set the video settings and format correctly in the device settings in virtualdub? Alternatively you can try with amarectv instead

Thank you for the insight! The NV-S88 does play my VHS-C and honestly, I'm not sure if my VHS tapes are also NTSC or just PAL (My parents shot all these tapes and OF COURSE they don't know!) However, the tapes look mostly fine when played in the camera and, to my surprise, it also has a line-TBC which is decent when you look at the tapes.

As for the correct settings, I have gone through multiple tutorials everywhere and checked forums. I even followed Alwyn's magnificent guide on AmarecTV and basically used the same settings over on VDub as well, but still no luck. The only thing that kind of bugs me is that in most tutorials, the following is greyed out, but not in my case:


[Attachment 82015 - Click to enlarge]

Which kind of makes me wonder if these settings are correct, or would have any kind of effect in solving my issue.

[oln]

The playback option in the camcorder must be set back to "On PAL TV" before trying the PAL options, right? PAL_B and PAL60 don't work.

If capture a NTSC tape with NTSC 4.43 and set the camera to NTSC on PAL playback (or vice versa) you just get no color. The camera setting doesn't have any impact if playing a PAL tape, if it's a PAL tape (whether it's the 8mm or VHS camcorder) you have to make sure the resolution and framerate is set correct for PAL on the GV-USB, not just that the color system is PAL_B. Have you also tested that your cable is working on a TV or similar, and that you have selected the correct input? (maybe it's set to composite instead of s-video or something)

[The_Doman]

As for the correct settings, I have gone through multiple tutorials everywhere and checked forums. I even followed Alwyn's magnificent guide on AmarecTV and basically used the same settings over on VDub as well, but still no luck. The only thing that kind of bugs me is that in most tutorials, the following is greyed out, but not in my case:


[Attachment 82015 - Click to enlarge]

Which kind of makes me wonder if these settings are correct, or would have any kind of effect in solving my issue.

Better keep it at max quality.
See this post:
VirtualDub Capture Pin Compression Settings

I capture at 720x576 the compression quality setting needs to be at end to full if it's not then you will get bad quality something which I have learnt now��

But those settings should not be the cause you not have any picture yet.
Did you try another known good source/cable to verify?
Even you can use the live camera view directly.
The PAL/NTSC playback makes everything more confusing of course.
But at least you should receive something of a picture, BW or colour.

[Bobleflambeur]

Thanks to you good people, I finally got it!! In the words of Jordan Belfort in The Wolf of Wall Street, "Boom shakalaka!"

The final format I used was PAL_B as the awesome Alwyn suggested and the needed framerate was 25fps. Also, the resolution was set to 720×576.

Now, just a tiny thing about file size and compression. I used Ut Video YUY2 and I noticed while capturing that each tape (about 2 hrs) will be about 60B. Is that too big or is all this standard practice and I shouldn't worry about it too much?

[Alwyn]

Boom boom! Glad you're underway.

I used Ut Video YUY2 and I noticed while capturing that each tape (about 2 hrs) will be about 60B. Is that too big or is all this standard practice

This is the first step of the process. Next is editing your video (if you want/need eg trim all the crud off the start and end and when the kids forgot to turn off the camera), and then export out to MP4, which will drastically reduce the size down to something like 3GB per hour.

There are myriad ways to achieve all that. Have a look at the VDub guide on my site for the general idea. You'll undoubtedly get better at the editing/processing side, so don't delete your capture masters in case you want to come back and have another crack at tidying them up better later.

[Bobleflambeur]

This is the first step of the process. Next is editing your video (if you want/need eg trim all the crud off the start and end and when the kids forgot to turn off the camera), and then export out to MP4, which will drastically reduce the size down to something like 3GB per hour.

Awesome! You're a life saver! I'm really satisfied with the captures. Do you think I should deinterlace in VirtualDub using Yadif and export out to MP4 or use QTGMC in StaxRip and, say, export to MOV?

[Alwyn]

Nice!

QTGMC is the better deinterlacer. My workflow is capture>deinterlace>edit, so you could take your capture straight into Staxrip, deinterlace it, export lossless, then edit and export to MP4. In your case, I don't think there'd be an issue editing it first, then deinterlacing. Just make sure you don't do any cropping before you deinterlace and so you don't mess up the field order. I don't know anything about Staxrip.