Uncompressed AVI shows jagged edges on playback

[movieman444]

I'm capturing analog videotapes to my computer via a firewire connection and using the software Amcap to capture in Uncompressed AVI. The capture happens successfully but when the video is played back, you can clearly see jagged edges on playback (see attached example). Here are specs

VCR - Sony UVW-1800 Betacam SP player. Video output - S-Video, Audio Output - RCA

Firewire bridge - Sony Digital8 Handycam. The S-Video cable is plugged in the S-Video input on the camcorder, the audio cable that came with the camcorder is plugged in and using female-to-female RCA adapters I connected the RCA cables from the VCR to the RCA cables into the camcorder. A firewire cable is plugged from the camcorder to a firewire PCMCIA card on my laptop. The setting on the camcorder A/V>DV is turned on so the analog video flows from the camcorder to the computer.

Capture software - AMCap 9.23 (capture setting attached)

Computer Information - see attached

I'm at my wit's end. This is for a client who walked away a year ago and didn't start reviewing the files until a few weeks and now she's not happy because of the jaggedness of the videos so here are my questions

1. Is there another way I can capture uncompressed AVI that will not produce the jaggedness?

2. Is there a software where I can re-encode the existing files to remove the jaggedness?

I originally told my client the jaggedness is basically caused by aliasing, the fact it's uncompressed (see Mediainfo specs - 166 Mbits/s) and any playback (no matter how fast the computer) will play jittery and you will see the jaggedness because of the interlacing. Am I correct?

If I can't resolve this, I will have to refund the money which was quite a bit and will hurt my financial situation at the moment. I'm so frustrated.

[buzz1891]

I suggest you to provide a short sample of the captured video, use avidemux/losslesscut or similar tools to avoid trascoding

[davexnet]

Get a mediainfo report of the captured file, text view, and post the info here

Normally DV content, via the camera/Firewire, should be captured with WinDV. It's really a data transfer, the output from the
camera should be captured as-is.

[movieman444]

I'm uploading video now. It's taking time. It's only 37 seconds but 767 MB in size.

Davexnet, I did attach the mediainfo details. See original post. I saved it as a text file and that's why you don't see a picture.

[movieman444]

I see the problem. AVI uploads are limited to 477.3 mb. Let me do a re-capture of a smaller file. Standby

Meanwhile here's a JPG of the mediainfo data.

[davexnet]

I'm uploading video now. It's taking time. It's only 37 seconds but 767 MB in size.

Davexnet, I did attach the mediainfo details. See original post. I saved it as a text file and that's why you don't see a picture.

Yeah try capturing with WinDV. The file will be much smaller. I've never seen incoming DV from Firewire captured this way.

[movieman444]

Ok, here is a sample video.

[movieman444]

Davexnet, my client is using for archiving so she wants the large filesize. I cannot get around this requirement.

[davexnet]

Davexnet, my client is using for archiving so she wants the large filesize. I cannot get around this requirement.

Yes but Firewire captured with WINDV captures a 1:1 copy of the camera output.
You can't get more accurate than that.
Also the video is interlaced, deinterlacing it clears the jaggies
Seems that it's sourced from film so IVTC looks OK

[movieman444]

But will it capture uncompressed AVI? I'll give it a try but I don't think it will give her what she's looking for.

Also, am I correct when I told her the reason she's seeing the jaggedness is because of the interlacing? If so, is there a software that can help me deinterlace the video? I tried using Adobe Premiere Elements and exporting as Progressive but you still see the jagged edges.

[davexnet]

But will it capture uncompressed AVI? I'll give it a try but I don't think it will give her what she's looking for.

Also, am I correct when I told her the reason she's seeing the jaggedness is because of the interlacing? If so, is there a software that can help me deinterlace the video? I tried using Adobe Premiere Elements and exporting as Progressive but you still see the jagged edges.

See my update above. The adaptive inverse telecine filter in Virtualdub2 does pretty well

[movieman444]

The WinDV software gave me the same results that my normal capture software Window Movie Maker and it's fine for 99.99% of my customers but this particular customer wants the uncompressed AVI with no jaggedness. Anyway, attached is the mediainfo data from the WinDV test.

Clearly you can see 24.4 Mb/s and Compression Mode: Lossy. If she sees both these stats, it will not be acceptable.

Also, why does it capture audio at 32 kHz instead of 48 Khz?

[thecoalman]

The capture device in this setup is the camcorder and it's streaming or transferring DV over firewire. For archival purposes it can't be any better than the DV stream. Uncompressed is just larger video file and potentially introducing issues.

I checked your video I don't see what you mean. If you are referring to the horizontal lines in the screenshot that is interlacing and can't be removed without degrading the video. It's how analog video meant for TV works. The playback software or device will manage it. Screenshot from Windows media player.

[davexnet]

I don't know about the audio. Is that the source format? The two samples of DV found on my PC were also 32k.
And DV is lossy, all you're doing is converting the lossy DV to uncompressed - same quality but about 5 times bigger.

Same as a low bitrate mp3 file, opened in an audio editor and save as Wav/PCM - n times bigger but exact same quality as the
crappy sounding low bitrate mp3

[themaster1]

uncompressed avi is overkill and oversize (factor X2 easily) , the codec huffyuv ( y'crcb 4.2.2) is good enough. If she work on MAC she may want a cross platform lossless codec like UTvideo. VHS, laserdisc, umatic, beta (and more) = interlaced (jagged lines), perfectly normal. Interlacing is a sort of analog temporal compression, best solution they found at the time given the bandwidth restrictions of tv broadcasts.

The only problem here is the container AVI that do not flag the Field parity properly: on vhs, laserdisc, umatic etc.. it's always top field first (straight out the deck). AVI by default is bottom field first => troubles for some players.

[movieman444]

themaster1, I agree with you 100% that uncompressed AVI is overkill and oversize but this is what my client wants and unless I can either convince her to drop it (which I have been trying) or provide uncompressed files of her videotapes, I may have to refund her money which is significant to me especially in my current financial state. The crazy thing is I know it can be done. She used these videotapes for a documentary she did in 2006 and her original editor captured the clips using Quicktime (unfortunately he didn't convert each complete tape, just clips here and there). Attached is the mediainfo from one of the clips. You can see from the bitrate of 238 Mb/s for only 18 seconds it's uncompressed and has no jaggedness. From this data, do you think I can mimic this capture?

Unforutnately Quicktime Pro is no longer supported nor for sale.

[The_Doman]

The WinDV software gave me the same results that my normal capture software Window Movie Maker and it's fine for 99.99% of my customers but this particular customer wants the uncompressed AVI with no jaggedness. Anyway, attached is the mediainfo data from the WinDV test.

Clearly you can see 24.4 Mb/s and Compression Mode: Lossy. If she sees both these stats, it will not be acceptable.

Did the DV test capture file play properly without "jaggedness"?
I assume you mean with jaggedness the interlaced combing effect when the video played without de-interlacing.
Most AVI codecs not support interlacing flagging, so the playback programs not know they must de-interlace when playing back the video.
But the DV codec supports interlacing flagging.
See also this topic:
August VGB100 capture card is stuck at 25 fps capture, won't go any further

Also, why does it capture audio at 32 kHz instead of 48 Khz?

Probably because you have (mis)configured your camera audio setup to use 32kHz audio mode?
Works the same with my D8 camera when capturing using analog-pass through.

Wikipedia: DV (video format)

Audio can be stored in either of two forms: 16-bit Linear PCM stereo at 48 kHz sampling rate (768 kbit/s per channel, 1.5 Mbit/s stereo), or four nonlinear 12-bit PCM channels at 32 kHz sampling rate (384 kbit/s per channel, 1.5 Mbit/s for four channels). In addition, the DV specification also supports 16-bit audio at 44.1 kHz (706 kbit/s per channel, 1.4 Mbit/s stereo), the same sampling rate used for CD audio.[11] In practice, the 48 kHz stereo mode is used almost exclusively.

Also the sample looks like it is missing frames, but i not know the source.
Of course you could always capture first in DV and convert to lossless afterwards.

[The_Doman]

The only problem here is the container AVI that do not flag the Field parity properly: on vhs, laserdisc, umatic etc.. it's always top field first (straight out the deck). AVI by default is bottom field first => troubles for some players.

It all depends on the capture device being used.
Almost all use top field first yes, but DV (camera or hardware DV converter box) uses bottom field first.

[movieman444]

The_Doman, thanks for all the information. I can probably use this to convince my client there is actually nothing wrong with the files. It's just the playback. The interlace combing effect.

What software can I use to deinterlace the video?
What software can I use to convert from DV to lossless?

Thanks to all that replied.

[Alwyn]

...

[movieman444]

I definitely learned a lot in this one post. So I was right from the very beginning that there really isn't anything intrinsically wrong with the capture that I did but because it's interlaced it will have the interlace combing effect.

I'll do a quick search on the step by step procedure on using virtual dub to deinterlace the files but if you happen to be know a good step by step either text or video I would be grateful. Thank you so much for all the detailed information.

[Alwyn]

...

[buzz1891]

re AviSynth is `big nightmare if not familiar`,
I just googled for "Using Avisynth" and find this great video tutorial exactly about the subject matter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4PyyQoz6eo

[movieman444]

Thanks. Alwyn, I'll still try your tutorial but I just used VirtualDub2 and used the Deinterlace filter and it worked perfectly. I left compression Uncompressed, did not change pixel format and I essentially got the same large sized file but with no combing effect. Hallelujah! The only thing I cannot figure out is how to change the audio sample rate. It's locked in at 32000 Hz 16-bit and I'm trying to change it to 48000 Hz 16 bit. If anyone knows how to change this, please let me know.

[davexnet]

Set audio/full processing then audio/conversion

[Alwyn]

I just googled for "Using Avisynth" and find this great video tutorial exactly about the subject matter:

Maybe I'm thick but that YT is the nightmare. Following Andrew's blog post is a little easier but even then it is beyond crazy trying to work out how to get all the dependencies set up; Clangs, FFTWs into this and that folders, it's mind-numbing stuff.

[movieman444]

Awesome davexnet. That worked. In the morning, I cannot wait to start deinterlacing all the videotapes I spent about 2 weeks capturing a year ago. I'm so happy I don't have to recapture the tapes. Thank you all for your contributions. You saved me a significant amount of time, I'm confident my client will be happy, and I will not have to refund the money.

[davexnet]

Regarding the dependencies of Avisynth, qtgmc is pariticular, I started with a fresh install of Avisynth
and a simple script using qtgmc with just the parameters I needed (the basics for now).

Open the script in vdub2 and it told me something was missing.
Find the item on the internet and install to the Avisynth plugin folder.

Try again, most likely something else is missing.

Do this until it's satisfied and the video opens. I found I only had to get 3 or 4 things to get the basic script to work.

[Alwyn]

My Hybrid tute.

[Sharc]

Keep in mind that deinterlacing inevitably introduces artifacts, even the great QTGMC. So if archiving is the purpose, I would suggest to either
- keep it in the original format (interlaced/telecined), and deinterlace/IVTC at playback time only, see @thecoalman's post#13
- or for true interlaced video use QTGMC(lossless=1), so you can restore the original, untouched fields any time later, if neeeded.
It's a personal decision though. Choose your poison.

But anyway, it seems the OP's customer wants a kettle with blue paint but it shouldn't be blue .....