Converting from 4k UHD to Blu-ray using Handbrake (with color tone mapping)

[Lathe]

I have already done this a few times, taking say a 70 Gig UHD file and using Handbrake to convert it to a regular Blu-ray so that I can play it on my older OPPO player. And yes, I KNOW there are further steps to prepare it to burn to Blu-ray.

As I have seen it suggested, I use the BT709 I believe it is called for tone mapping and converting from HDR-SDR. So far, they seem to be coming out okay. I was just curious about since I am going from an assumed better quality source and converting it to Blu-ray, am I losing out very much on the quality say as compared to a regular Blu-ray? Many times I do want the new 4k Remaster, but I need to be able to play it on my OPPO player, thus my doing this.

I normally use a CRF value since I want to retain as much quality as reasonable, but would like to be able to get closer to a full 22 Gig Blu-ray size. I don't really want to use a constant bitrate, which I know you can use to approximate the resulting output file size, but there might be very demanding scenes in the film where it may need more bitrate. So, I am more inclined to use a CRF of around 19-20. I've tried a slightly better quality setting, but the size is really hard to guess. Even if I do a smaller sample size, say about 10% of the encode and try to extrapolate what the full encode will be, it is not consistent. Like I can check the encode at 10% and the size could be 1.5 Gigs, so I'm thinking, okay then the full encode should be around 15 Gigs. BUT... if I checked the same one at say 50%, suddenly the size is like 12 Gigs which will end up being too big So, I try to 'Guess' at around 19-20 CRF and the resulting encode has usually been around 13-15 Gigs or so, so I suppose that is all right.

I also add some x264 'Tweaks' in the CMD line of Handbrake HOPEFULLY to ensure the encode is of better quality. So, I'll set it for: Medium, Level=4.1, ref=4, Psychovisual=1.25, Trellis=2, and a couple of other 'Slow' tweaks that won't affect it's playability. But, I don't know if all that is really necessary or really helpful since I am encoding from supposedly such a superiour quality source.

Also, I see some comments that the color mapping using BT709 (if that is the right one) leaves some people saying that it isn't that great. Is there anything else I can do to improve the quality of the encode as far as the color or any of these settings I'm using? Also too, my telly is very old and is not 4k compatible along of course with my OPPO. I will indeed someday have to go all 4k with both player and telly, but in the meantime I would like to do the best I can with this conversion from UHD HDR-SDR to Blu-ray.

I really appreciate any input or suggestions so that I can get the best reasonable quality I can. The encodes with my new CPU go pretty fast now comparatively to leaving it overnight like I used to to. Most encodes usually only take anywhere from 30-90 minutes depending on the strength of the settings.

Thanks!

[davexnet]

If you want to predict the size, use 2-pass VBR. Here's an example using FFmpeg
https://web.archive.org/web/20180224063755/http://www.x264bluray.com/home/1080i-p

[ProWo]

For a correct HDR to SDR tonemapping setting BT709 only isn't enough.

[davexnet]

Yes. I didn't get a chance to try it myself, but there is an example of a filter here with a
possible correction dated Aug 1 in the thread
https://superuser.com/questions/1465562/why-does-ffmpegs-tonemap-tone-mapping-filter-g...colors-dependi

[davexnet]

Does Clever FFmpeg Gui do the tone mapping?
Have you thought about implementing 2-pass into your program?

[ProWo]

Does Clever FFmpeg Gui do the tone mapping?
Have you thought about implementing 2-pass into your program?

Yes for the tonemapping (with LUTs too), no for 2 pass encoding, i prefer CFR.

[Lathe]

If you want to predict the size, use 2-pass VBR. Here's an example using FFmpeg
https://web.archive.org/web/20180224063755/http://www.x264bluray.com/home/1080i-p

Heh, yessir I do know that, which I clearly stated in my original post and why I don't use it, but thanks for the reply though! I also see your post below and with check that out, thanks!

[Lathe]

For a correct HDR to SDR tonemapping setting BT709 only isn't enough.

Yeah... that is what I figured and WHY I was asking if there is anything else that I might do to make that better, thus my post here, thanks!

[Lathe]

Well, I guess then since I WILL be using a 1-Pass CRF setting, the BT709 will have to do if there are no other helpful suggestions then... No added AVS to help with the colour, just a thought...?

[october262]

I have already done this a few times, taking say a 70 Gig UHD file and using Handbrake to convert it to a regular Blu-ray so that I can play it on my older OPPO player. And yes, I KNOW there are further steps to prepare it to burn to Blu-ray.

As I have seen it suggested, I use the BT709 I believe it is called for tone mapping and converting from HDR-SDR. So far, they seem to be coming out okay. I was just curious about since I am going from an assumed better quality source and converting it to Blu-ray, am I losing out very much on the quality say as compared to a regular Blu-ray? Many times I do want the new 4k Remaster, but I need to be able to play it on my OPPO player, thus my doing this.

I normally use a CRF value since I want to retain as much quality as reasonable, but would like to be able to get closer to a full 22 Gig Blu-ray size. I don't really want to use a constant bitrate, which I know you can use to approximate the resulting output file size, but there might be very demanding scenes in the film where it may need more bitrate. So, I am more inclined to use a CRF of around 19-20. I've tried a slightly better quality setting, but the size is really hard to guess. Even if I do a smaller sample size, say about 10% of the encode and try to extrapolate what the full encode will be, it is not consistent. Like I can check the encode at 10% and the size could be 1.5 Gigs, so I'm thinking, okay then the full encode should be around 15 Gigs. BUT... if I checked the same one at say 50%, suddenly the size is like 12 Gigs which will end up being too big So, I try to 'Guess' at around 19-20 CRF and the resulting encode has usually been around 13-15 Gigs or so, so I suppose that is all right.

I also add some x264 'Tweaks' in the CMD line of Handbrake HOPEFULLY to ensure the encode is of better quality. So, I'll set it for: Medium, Level=4.1, ref=4, Psychovisual=1.25, Trellis=2, and a couple of other 'Slow' tweaks that won't affect it's playability. But, I don't know if all that is really necessary or really helpful since I am encoding from supposedly such a superiour quality source.

Also, I see some comments that the color mapping using BT709 (if that is the right one) leaves some people saying that it isn't that great. Is there anything else I can do to improve the quality of the encode as far as the color or any of these settings I'm using? Also too, my telly is very old and is not 4k compatible along of course with my OPPO. I will indeed someday have to go all 4k with both player and telly, but in the meantime I would like to do the best I can with this conversion from UHD HDR-SDR to Blu-ray.

I really appreciate any input or suggestions so that I can get the best reasonable quality I can. The encodes with my new CPU go pretty fast now comparatively to leaving it overnight like I used to to. Most encodes usually only take anywhere from 30-90 minutes depending on the strength of the settings.

Thanks!

try Q20. H265 10-bit. Colourspace Filter BT.709. MKV https://www.reddit.com/r/handbrake/comments/tsk6bf/handbrake_is_incredible_hdr_to_sdr_tone_mapping/

[davexnet]

If you want to predict the size, use 2-pass VBR. Here's an example using FFmpeg
https://web.archive.org/web/20180224063755/http://www.x264bluray.com/home/1080i-p

Heh, yessir I do know that, which I clearly stated in my original post and why I don't use it, but thanks for the reply though! I also see your post below and with check that out, thanks!

I didn't see anything in your original post about 2-pass (VBR) encode

[Lathe]

I have already done this a few times, taking say a 70 Gig UHD file and using Handbrake to convert it to a regular Blu-ray so that I can play it on my older OPPO player. And yes, I KNOW there are further steps to prepare it to burn to Blu-ray.

As I have seen it suggested, I use the BT709 I believe it is called for tone mapping and converting from HDR-SDR. So far, they seem to be coming out okay. I was just curious about since I am going from an assumed better quality source and converting it to Blu-ray, am I losing out very much on the quality say as compared to a regular Blu-ray? Many times I do want the new 4k Remaster, but I need to be able to play it on my OPPO player, thus my doing this.

I normally use a CRF value since I want to retain as much quality as reasonable, but would like to be able to get closer to a full 22 Gig Blu-ray size. I don't really want to use a constant bitrate, which I know you can use to approximate the resulting output file size, but there might be very demanding scenes in the film where it may need more bitrate. So, I am more inclined to use a CRF of around 19-20. I've tried a slightly better quality setting, but the size is really hard to guess. Even if I do a smaller sample size, say about 10% of the encode and try to extrapolate what the full encode will be, it is not consistent. Like I can check the encode at 10% and the size could be 1.5 Gigs, so I'm thinking, okay then the full encode should be around 15 Gigs. BUT... if I checked the same one at say 50%, suddenly the size is like 12 Gigs which will end up being too big So, I try to 'Guess' at around 19-20 CRF and the resulting encode has usually been around 13-15 Gigs or so, so I suppose that is all right.

I also add some x264 'Tweaks' in the CMD line of Handbrake HOPEFULLY to ensure the encode is of better quality. So, I'll set it for: Medium, Level=4.1, ref=4, Psychovisual=1.25, Trellis=2, and a couple of other 'Slow' tweaks that won't affect it's playability. But, I don't know if all that is really necessary or really helpful since I am encoding from supposedly such a superiour quality source.

Also, I see some comments that the color mapping using BT709 (if that is the right one) leaves some people saying that it isn't that great. Is there anything else I can do to improve the quality of the encode as far as the color or any of these settings I'm using? Also too, my telly is very old and is not 4k compatible along of course with my OPPO. I will indeed someday have to go all 4k with both player and telly, but in the meantime I would like to do the best I can with this conversion from UHD HDR-SDR to Blu-ray.

I really appreciate any input or suggestions so that I can get the best reasonable quality I can. The encodes with my new CPU go pretty fast now comparatively to leaving it overnight like I used to to. Most encodes usually only take anywhere from 30-90 minutes depending on the strength of the settings.

Thanks!

try Q20. H265 10-bit. Colourspace Filter BT.709. MKV https://www.reddit.com/r/handbrake/comments/tsk6bf/handbrake_is_incredible_hdr_to_sdr_tone_mapping/

Hey, thanks for that! Yes, I have read that thread, it was very helpful. Although the h265 encoding will not play on my OPPO player. I guess some say there that the colours are still a bit muted, but maybe on my antiquated system I might not notice it so much

[Lathe]

If you want to predict the size, use 2-pass VBR. Here's an example using FFmpeg
https://web.archive.org/web/20180224063755/http://www.x264bluray.com/home/1080i-p

Heh, yessir I do know that, which I clearly stated in my original post and why I don't use it, but thanks for the reply though! I also see your post below and with check that out, thanks!

I didn't see anything in your original post about 2-pass (VBR) encode

That's okay mate It's just that I mentioned that using the 2-pass method I cannot control the quality of the more demanding scenes. Thus my preferring the CRF encoding where I am assured a constant quality rate.

[Lathe]

Okay, how about this... Handbrake allows for a 'Custom' setting with the color space. Is there some specific color setting other than BT709 that might yield better results. I would THINK that surely SOMEONE has played around with this...

[october262]

I have already done this a few times, taking say a 70 Gig UHD file and using Handbrake to convert it to a regular Blu-ray so that I can play it on my older OPPO player. And yes, I KNOW there are further steps to prepare it to burn to Blu-ray.

As I have seen it suggested, I use the BT709 I believe it is called for tone mapping and converting from HDR-SDR. So far, they seem to be coming out okay. I was just curious about since I am going from an assumed better quality source and converting it to Blu-ray, am I losing out very much on the quality say as compared to a regular Blu-ray? Many times I do want the new 4k Remaster, but I need to be able to play it on my OPPO player, thus my doing this.

I normally use a CRF value since I want to retain as much quality as reasonable, but would like to be able to get closer to a full 22 Gig Blu-ray size. I don't really want to use a constant bitrate, which I know you can use to approximate the resulting output file size, but there might be very demanding scenes in the film where it may need more bitrate. So, I am more inclined to use a CRF of around 19-20. I've tried a slightly better quality setting, but the size is really hard to guess. Even if I do a smaller sample size, say about 10% of the encode and try to extrapolate what the full encode will be, it is not consistent. Like I can check the encode at 10% and the size could be 1.5 Gigs, so I'm thinking, okay then the full encode should be around 15 Gigs. BUT... if I checked the same one at say 50%, suddenly the size is like 12 Gigs which will end up being too big So, I try to 'Guess' at around 19-20 CRF and the resulting encode has usually been around 13-15 Gigs or so, so I suppose that is all right.

I also add some x264 'Tweaks' in the CMD line of Handbrake HOPEFULLY to ensure the encode is of better quality. So, I'll set it for: Medium, Level=4.1, ref=4, Psychovisual=1.25, Trellis=2, and a couple of other 'Slow' tweaks that won't affect it's playability. But, I don't know if all that is really necessary or really helpful since I am encoding from supposedly such a superiour quality source.

Also, I see some comments that the color mapping using BT709 (if that is the right one) leaves some people saying that it isn't that great. Is there anything else I can do to improve the quality of the encode as far as the color or any of these settings I'm using? Also too, my telly is very old and is not 4k compatible along of course with my OPPO. I will indeed someday have to go all 4k with both player and telly, but in the meantime I would like to do the best I can with this conversion from UHD HDR-SDR to Blu-ray.

I really appreciate any input or suggestions so that I can get the best reasonable quality I can. The encodes with my new CPU go pretty fast now comparatively to leaving it overnight like I used to to. Most encodes usually only take anywhere from 30-90 minutes depending on the strength of the settings.

Thanks!

try Q20. H265 10-bit. Colourspace Filter BT.709. MKV https://www.reddit.com/r/handbrake/comments/tsk6bf/handbrake_is_incredible_hdr_to_sdr_tone_mapping/

Hey, thanks for that! Yes, I have read that thread, it was very helpful. Although the h265 encoding will not play on my OPPO player. I guess some say there that the colours are still a bit muted, but maybe on my antiquated system I might not notice it so much

are you playing your movie from a burnt disc or USB stick ??

[Lathe]

I have already done this a few times, taking say a 70 Gig UHD file and using Handbrake to convert it to a regular Blu-ray so that I can play it on my older OPPO player. And yes, I KNOW there are further steps to prepare it to burn to Blu-ray.

As I have seen it suggested, I use the BT709 I believe it is called for tone mapping and converting from HDR-SDR. So far, they seem to be coming out okay. I was just curious about since I am going from an assumed better quality source and converting it to Blu-ray, am I losing out very much on the quality say as compared to a regular Blu-ray? Many times I do want the new 4k Remaster, but I need to be able to play it on my OPPO player, thus my doing this.

I normally use a CRF value since I want to retain as much quality as reasonable, but would like to be able to get closer to a full 22 Gig Blu-ray size. I don't really want to use a constant bitrate, which I know you can use to approximate the resulting output file size, but there might be very demanding scenes in the film where it may need more bitrate. So, I am more inclined to use a CRF of around 19-20. I've tried a slightly better quality setting, but the size is really hard to guess. Even if I do a smaller sample size, say about 10% of the encode and try to extrapolate what the full encode will be, it is not consistent. Like I can check the encode at 10% and the size could be 1.5 Gigs, so I'm thinking, okay then the full encode should be around 15 Gigs. BUT... if I checked the same one at say 50%, suddenly the size is like 12 Gigs which will end up being too big So, I try to 'Guess' at around 19-20 CRF and the resulting encode has usually been around 13-15 Gigs or so, so I suppose that is all right.

I also add some x264 'Tweaks' in the CMD line of Handbrake HOPEFULLY to ensure the encode is of better quality. So, I'll set it for: Medium, Level=4.1, ref=4, Psychovisual=1.25, Trellis=2, and a couple of other 'Slow' tweaks that won't affect it's playability. But, I don't know if all that is really necessary or really helpful since I am encoding from supposedly such a superiour quality source.

Also, I see some comments that the color mapping using BT709 (if that is the right one) leaves some people saying that it isn't that great. Is there anything else I can do to improve the quality of the encode as far as the color or any of these settings I'm using? Also too, my telly is very old and is not 4k compatible along of course with my OPPO. I will indeed someday have to go all 4k with both player and telly, but in the meantime I would like to do the best I can with this conversion from UHD HDR-SDR to Blu-ray.

I really appreciate any input or suggestions so that I can get the best reasonable quality I can. The encodes with my new CPU go pretty fast now comparatively to leaving it overnight like I used to to. Most encodes usually only take anywhere from 30-90 minutes depending on the strength of the settings.

Thanks!

try Q20. H265 10-bit. Colourspace Filter BT.709. MKV https://www.reddit.com/r/handbrake/comments/tsk6bf/handbrake_is_incredible_hdr_to_sdr_tone_mapping/

Hey, thanks for that! Yes, I have read that thread, it was very helpful. Although the h265 encoding will not play on my OPPO player. I guess some say there that the colours are still a bit muted, but maybe on my antiquated system I might not notice it so much

are you playing your movie from a burnt disc or USB stick ??

BD-R

BTW, I'm in the process of converting the 4k version of 'PEEPING TOM', and sampling what the re-encode looks like, it looks pretty good to me and the colors seem quite vibrant. I hope that is a good sign...

[ProWo]

Try clever FFmpeg-GUI


[Attachment 76610 - Click to enlarge]

[davexnet]

Much of this was covered with the OP in this earlier thread:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/409566-WOW!-Did-I-lose-a-lot-of-colour!-(Trying-to...D)#post2689895

[Lathe]

Try clever FFmpeg-GUI


[Attachment 76561 - Click to enlarge]

Thanks, I'll check it out!

[Lathe]

Much of this was covered with the OP in this earlier thread:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/409566-WOW!-Did-I-lose-a-lot-of-colour!-(Trying-to...D)#post2689895

Yeah, that's when I first tried to do this. Basically, IIRC, in that thread is where I just learned to use the BT709 color filter. In this thread I am asking further things concerning any color tweaks that can be used either by customizing the color filter (Handbrake DOES allow a custom filter, which I find intriguing - Again, isn't there a specific setting here that might tweak the colours even better?) And also, I am asking about compression and file size and the comparisons of the resulting quality.

So yeah... I started this thread for these additional things

[Lathe]

Try clever FFmpeg-GUI


[Attachment 76561 - Click to enlarge]

Ah, I see here it uses some other form of colour mapping with some parameter choices within that, interesting!

***EDIT

Also, I see where there is a setting for AVS too!