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    Hi all,

    Several weeks before, I sent an old Sony V8 analogue cassette tape to a profession shop here ripping the analogue video to digital mp4 video and saved on an USB stick. I'm prepared viewing the video on computer.

    The outcome of the quality of the .mp4 video:-
    1) some video are quite good
    2) some video are blurry
    3) a video having yellowish color

    The video were captured in different time and in different locations of different environment. Would it be the result of ripping technique or the quality of the old V8 analoque tape.

    Before my V8 camcorder broken down, I played the tape on TV without such problems.

    Would ripping the tape to mpeg format have better result? I'm going to send another old Sony V8 analogue tape to this profession shop ripping it as mpeg digital video.

    Please advise. Thanks in advance.

    Regards
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Groundhog Day !!. Just how many topics have you created about this issue ? No wonder you have not had any replies.

    'Professional' means zilch. Many are just doing it for the money and have no knowledge how to do this properly.


    'MP4' also means little since that is just a container and not a codec/format. Has this 'pro' done any upscaling ? Typically (or if done correctly), you do not get MP4 directly, or some poor device is being used.


    And if your tape played fine before with none of the issues you now describe then the finger can be pointed at this 'pro' outfit. Which, if you value your content, should be avoided.


    Solution. Get your own camcorder and do the transfers yourself. Or find someone else who really knows what they are doing.
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    Solution. Get your own camcorder and do the transfers yourself.
    A bit harsh there, DB. They've already tried to get a camcorder with no luck; covered extensively in previous posts.

    The video were captured in different time and in different locations of different environment. Would it be the result of ripping technique or the quality of the old V8 analoque tape.
    Hard to say. It's quite possible that different recordings will come out differently. The blurry videos are probably not a capture problem; more like a focus problem when taken.

    Re the MP4 status, there's a couple of possibilities: your tapes were captured with a low-quality direct-to-MP4 process or they were captured using a different process and converted to MP4 for you (quite understandable; that's what I do for people). An possible indication of quality would be the size of your files.

    What size are your MP4s and what duration?

    Would ripping the tape to mpeg format have better result?
    MPEG is still a lossy format so it depends on how the transfer was done. I doubt you would achieve better quality at the same shop.

    I'm going to send another old Sony V8 analogue tape to this profession shop ripping it as mpeg digital video.
    That probably won't solve the conundrum you are in, which is whether the current shop is any good. I'd suggest you give the first tape to another shop and then compare the two sets of captures.

    Ask the new shop what process they use:

    "What hardware and software do you use to transfer tapes?". This will tell you/us straight away whether they are likely to do a good job.
    Last edited by Alwyn; 20th Nov 2023 at 21:20.
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    Another thing that would help analyse the files you got from your shop: an analysis by MediaInfo.

    Install MediaInfo, open one of your MP4s and on the View menu, choose "Text". Copy all that text and paste it here. That'll tell us a lot about the files you've been given.
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  5. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Solution. Get your own camcorder and do the transfers yourself. Or find someone else who really knows what they are doing.
    +1.
    All advice how to do it has already been given. Running from shop to shop (home of morons) just ruins his tapes.
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    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Solution. Get your own camcorder and do the transfers yourself. Or find someone else who really knows what they are doing.
    +1.
    All advice how to do it has already been given. Running from shop to shop (home of morons) just ruins his tapes.
    Hi Sharc,

    Thanks for your advice. I do agree with your advice.

    I don't think having problem ripping old Sony V8 tapes myself. I have done it in the past. My only problem is to get a good quality 2nd hand camcorder with good magnetic heads. I can't check the magnet heads on shopping. I think I have to taking chance.

    Would D8 camcorde have better performance ripping V8 tapes? Some model of D8 camcorder can play V8 tapes.

    Thanks

    Regards
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Another thing that would help analyse the files you got from your shop: an analysis by MediaInfo.

    Install MediaInfo, open one of your MP4s and on the View menu, choose "Text". Copy all that text and paste it here. That'll tell us a lot about the files you've been given.
    Hi Alwyn,

    Thanks for your advice. I'll try MediaInfo later.

    Do I need to check the complete mp4 file delivered by the profession shop? It lasts one and half hours. I have trimmed them into sections.

    Or I just check the poor quality mp4 file? Please advise. Thanks

    Regards
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  8. Originally Posted by satimis View Post
    My only problem is to get a good quality 2nd hand camcorder with good magnetic heads. I can't check the magnet heads on shopping. I think I have to taking chance.
    You can't check the condition of the magnetic heads of the 'professional' shops either.

    Would D8 camcorde have better performance ripping V8 tapes? Some model of D8 camcorder can play V8 tapes.
    Seems we are moving in circles. Re-read what has already been discussed here:
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/411611-Seeking-for-advice-converting-old-V8-tapes
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Groundhog Day !!. Just how many topics have you created about this issue ? No wonder you have not had any replies.

    'Professional' means zilch. Many are just doing it for the money and have no knowledge how to do this properly.


    'MP4' also means little since that is just a container and not a codec/format. Has this 'pro' done any upscaling ? Typically (or if done correctly), you do not get MP4 directly, or some poor device is being used.


    And if your tape played fine before with none of the issues you now describe then the finger can be pointed at this 'pro' outfit. Which, if you value your content, should be avoided.


    Solution. Get your own camcorder and do the transfers yourself. Or find someone else who really knows what they are doing.
    Hi,

    At the beginning I intend to rip the old V8 tapes myself. I have ripped V8 tapes before.

    I have done intensive shopping on EBay, contacting the sellers. Later I have another thought. If a profession shop can do a good job for me I just pay them for their work, saving me lot of headache shopping 2nd hand camcorder.

    Now I have to turning back to my original steps.

    Regards

    Regards
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Solution. Get your own camcorder and do the transfers yourself.
    A bit harsh there, DB. They've already tried to get a camcorder with no luck; covered extensively in previous posts.

    The video were captured in different time and in different locations of different environment. Would it be the result of ripping technique or the quality of the old V8 analoque tape.
    Hard to say. It's quite possible that different recordings will come out differently. The blurry videos are probably not a capture problem; more like a focus problem when taken.

    Re the MP4 status, there's a couple of possibilities: your tapes were captured with a low-quality direct-to-MP4 process or they were captured using a different process and converted to MP4 for you (quite understandable; that's what I do for people). An possible indication of quality would be the size of your files.

    What size are your MP4s and what duration?

    Would ripping the tape to mpeg format have better result?
    MPEG is still a lossy format so it depends on how the transfer was done. I doubt you would achieve better quality at the same shop.

    I'm going to send another old Sony V8 analogue tape to this profession shop ripping it as mpeg digital video.
    That probably won't solve the conundrum you are in, which is whether the current shop is any good. I'd suggest you give the first tape to another shop and then compare the two sets of captures.

    Ask the new shop what process they use:

    "What hardware and software do you use to transfer tapes?". This will tell you/us straight away whether they are likely to do a good job.
    Hi,

    Thanks for your advice.

    To reply your questions.

    1)
    I would do the ripping myself which was my beginning decision. I have done ripping tapes before.

    2)
    My Sony V8 Handycam is auto-focus. It has been broken several years.

    3)
    The duration of my old V8 tapes is 120min (2 hours). The video were captured in different times and locations

    4)
    My desktop PC
    AMD Ryzen 7 CPU, 8-core
    RAM 32G
    Monitor Dell 32" 4K display

    5)
    I work on both Windows and Linux systems.
    Windows - Windows 11 and Windows 10
    Linux - Ubuntu 22.04 desktop

    Regards
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Another thing that would help analyse the files you got from your shop: an analysis by MediaInfo.

    Install MediaInfo, open one of your MP4s and on the View menu, choose "Text". Copy all that text and paste it here. That'll tell us a lot about the files you've been given.
    Hi Alwyn,

    The screenshots of MediaInfo are attached here

    1)
    The text outcome of the completed video ripped by the profession shop

    2)
    The text outcome of a trimmed section, with unclear picture

    The fonts are very small, not easy to read

    Regards
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot_original_video.png
Views:	23
Size:	236.4 KB
ID:	74999  

    Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot_trimmed_video.png
Views:	22
Size:	226.4 KB
ID:	75000  

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  12. The full version looks basically ok.

    The 'trimmed' version is a mess:
    - re-encoded rather than just trimmed
    - wrong frame rate (30fps)
    - different (wrong) aspect ratio
    - upscaled, possibly without prior deinterlacing?
    - ......
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  13. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Extracts from the original transfer, especially a blurry section and one with bad colours would assist. But no re-encoding or different frame size please - use avidemux in copy mode.

    But I am suspicious of direct-to-progressive transfer. When I attempted that back in the day all I got was a mess
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    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    The full version looks basically ok.

    The 'trimmed' version is a mess:
    - re-encoded rather than just trimmed
    - wrong frame rate (30fps)
    - different (wrong) aspect ratio
    - upscaled, possibly without prior deinterlacing?
    - ......
    Thanks for your advice.

    I trimmed that section of video running OpenShot. I displayed the complete video running OpenShot and found that blurry section. Then I trimmed (cut) that section on OpenShot without editing.

    I can do it again either on OpenShot or running ffmpeg command according on time basis. OR have your any suggestion? Thanks

    Regards
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Extracts from the original transfer, especially a blurry section and one with bad colours would assist. But no re-encoding or different frame size please - use avidemux in copy mode.

    But I am suspicious of direct-to-progressive transfer. When I attempted that back in the day all I got was a mess
    Thanks for your advice.

    I haven't run avidemux before.

    I'll trim that section of video again running ffmpeg
    1) First I'll watch the complete video on OpenShot, taking down the starting and duration times of the blurry section
    2) Run following command to trim that section
    $ ffmpeg -i input.mp4 -ss 00:05:20 -t 00:10:00 -c:v copy -c:a copy output.mp4

    -ss 00:05:20 -t 00:10:00 are only example

    ffmpeg won't touch the video

    Regards
    Last edited by satimis; 21st Nov 2023 at 12:09.
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    @Satimis, that's good. TMPGenc (which I don't use) would indicate that the shop is at least semi-serious about video conversion. I would use a higher bitrate; 2000kbps is a bit low for my liking. I aim for 4000kbps or CRF 24 in VDub 2 for SD video such as this. That'll give you about 2-2.5GB per hour. If you want to edit it later, even higher bitrates are good.

    I guess the next step is to give us a sample so the experts can assess the quality of the encoding of the MP4s. The numbers from the MediaInfo report are only one side of the story.

    Use AVIDemux to create some sample of the good video.

    The "trimmed" file is a bit of a mess, as pointed out by Sharc, but that's not important at this stage. AVIDemux will do a smart-copy so your files won't be rencoded.

    Install AVIDemux

    Open one of your files in it

    On the timeline at the bottom, position the marker at some point to be the start of the sample and click the A button.

    Drag the marker along to the right to set the right end of the selection (the time length can be seen just below and to the right of the red cross; give us say 20 seconds) and click the B button.

    You'll have selection area visible. Please adjust the A and B points to include some movement so we can assess the deinterlacing.

    Now set up the export settings:

    Leave everything "as is" ie Video Output "Copy", Audio Output "Copy"

    except for the Output Muxer: from the droplist, choose "MP4 Muxer".

    That's it, do a File>Save and your sample will be saved.

    Now you can use the Manage Attachments function to attach your file here.

    Depending on how the MP4s are, you may be in luck and can use the same pro shop. And we'll give you some tips about re-editing your videos to remove the stuff you don't want to keep; in my experience, there's heaps of that! Wavy cameras, pointing at the ground, boring landscape shots...
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    Arrh, we're all typing at the same time. If FFMPEG can do a smart copy, that's fine.
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    Originally Posted by DB83
    But I am suspicious of direct-to-progressive transfer. When I attempted that back in the day all I got was a mess
    It may not have been. I don't ordinarily give people the raw capture files, only the progressive MP4s.
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  19. deleted, double post
    Last edited by Sharc; 21st Nov 2023 at 08:30.
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  20. Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83
    But I am suspicious of direct-to-progressive transfer. When I attempted that back in the day all I got was a mess
    It may not have been. I don't ordinarily give people the raw capture files, only the progressive MP4s.
    Yes. But this presupposes that the original interlaced capture is properly deinterlaced rather than just encoded as progressive, and eventually upscaled for the trimmed variant. I have to cross the fingers that the shop deinterlaced it properly.
    Also, it looks like the OP rendered it with the wrong project framerate of 30fps in OpenShot.
    Last edited by Sharc; 21st Nov 2023 at 08:35.
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    But this presupposes that the original interlaced capture is properly deinterlaced rather than just encoded as progressive
    We're getting there, Sharc. Be patient. And if it isn't, we move on to the next step.

    From post 11, I'm reading that the trimmed variant didn't come from the shop; also, writing app not TMPGenc.
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    Attn. everyone

    You might all think that the OP covered everything in recent topics. Especially since it was thought I was being a wee bit harsh in my initial reply here.


    But somewhere in my grey matter was a much earlier topic :-


    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403343-How-to-fix-blurry-video-on-Avidemux


    Sounds familiar ?
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    @Satimis, that's good. TMPGenc (which I don't use) would indicate that the shop is at least semi-serious about video conversion. I would use a higher bitrate; 2000kbps is a bit low for my liking. I aim for 4000kbps or CRF 24 in VDub 2 for SD video such as this. That'll give you about 2-2.5GB per hour. If you want to edit it later, even higher bitrates are good.

    I guess the next step is to give us a sample so the experts can assess the quality of the encoding of the MP4s. The numbers from the MediaInfo report are only one side of the story.

    Use AVIDemux to create some sample of the good video.

    The "trimmed" file is a bit of a mess, as pointed out by Sharc, but that's not important at this stage. AVIDemux will do a smart-copy so your files won't be rencoded.

    Install AVIDemux

    Open one of your files in it

    On the timeline at the bottom, position the marker at some point to be the start of the sample and click the A button.

    Drag the marker along to the right to set the right end of the selection (the time length can be seen just below and to the right of the red cross; give us say 20 seconds) and click the B button.

    You'll have selection area visible. Please adjust the A and B points to include some movement so we can assess the deinterlacing.

    Now set up the export settings:

    Leave everything "as is" ie Video Output "Copy", Audio Output "Copy"

    except for the Output Muxer: from the droplist, choose "MP4 Muxer".

    That's it, do a File>Save and your sample will be saved.

    Now you can use the Manage Attachments function to attach your file here.

    Depending on how the MP4s are, you may be in luck and can use the same pro shop. And we'll give you some tips about re-editing your videos to remove the stuff you don't want to keep; in my experience, there's heaps of that! Wavy cameras, pointing at the ground, boring landscape shots...
    Hi @Alwyn,

    Thanks for your detailed advice. The described steps sound similar to trimming a section video running OpenShot video editor performed by me previously. The trimmed video needs to be exported(saved).

    Now I have AVIDemux installed, running on Ubuntu 22.04 desktop. (Please see attached screenshot). But I couldn't find A and B buttons. I can't resize AVIDemux desktop.

    Then I ran ffmpeg to do the job, trimming the blurry section of the video again.

    Running the original video, ripped by the profession shop, on OpenShot I found the blurry section;
    Starting time: 00:20:05,21
    duration time: 00:02:40 (how long)

    On Terminal run;
    $ ffmpeg -i 0995_original.mp4 -ss 00:20:05 -t 00:2:40 -c:v copy -c:a copy ascoli.mp4

    It took 2 seconds to finish, very convenient, without browsing the original video

    Before I have upload the blurry section to YouTube
    Ascoli, Italy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwSR0WX6u1Y

    MediaInfo of the trimmed video
    Please refers to screenshot_mediainfo attached

    Regards
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot_AVIDemux.png
Views:	7
Size:	2.01 MB
ID:	75008  

    Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot_mediainfo.png
Views:	8
Size:	222.1 KB
ID:	75009  

    Last edited by satimis; 22nd Nov 2023 at 00:03.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Attn. everyone

    You might all think that the OP covered everything in recent topics. Especially since it was thought I was being a wee bit harsh in my initial reply here.


    But somewhere in my grey matter was a much earlier topic :-


    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403343-How-to-fix-blurry-video-on-Avidemux


    Sounds familiar ?
    Hi,

    That is another story. The digital video come from DVD, ripped on my VHS tape by another profession shop

    Regards
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    @Satimis, I don't use Linux, but it looks like your zoom is a bit big. Try View>Zoom 1:4. The Windows version (at Zoom 1:4) looks like this:

    Image
    [Attachment 75010 - Click to enlarge]


    The A and B buttons are below the timeline, as you can see. My screen is set up for a Copy Copy MP4 smart-render.

    Make sure you're on the latest version, which is 2.8.1.

    We really need the smart-rendered/copied trimmed piece attached here (or put on a file-sharing service such as Google Drive). YT is no good because YT does a full re-encode on the video and therefore doesn't accurately represent your original.
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    @Satimis, I don't use Linux, but it looks like your zoom is a bit big. Try View>Zoom 1:4. The Windows version (at Zoom 1:4) looks like this:

    Image
    [Attachment 75010 - Click to enlarge]


    The A and B buttons are below the timeline, as you can see. My screen is set up for a Copy Copy MP4 smart-render.

    Make sure you're on the latest version, which is 2.8.1.

    We really need the smart-rendered/copied trimmed piece attached here (or put on a file-sharing service such as Google Drive). YT is no good because YT does a full re-encode on the video and therefore doesn't accurately represent your original.
    Hi @Alwyn,

    View -> Zoom: 1:4
    can't help. I must resize the window of Ubuntu 22.04 desktop and then I find it. Please see attached screenshot.
    Version - Avidemux 2.8.1 - Release

    My problem here is uable to resize the window/desktop of AVIDemux.

    The section of the blurry video, trimmed with command, is quite clean without browsing the original video ripped by the profession shop during processing. Can I upload it to my account of Dropbox and share it here?

    Regards
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot_avidemux_new.png
Views:	6
Size:	403.1 KB
ID:	75011  

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  27. OMG. You don't need to zoom anything. Actually you zoomed by 1/4 = shrinking the preview to 25%.
    Just trim with the A,B buttons for selecting the scene you want to keep, forget about the zoom. Or if you want to enlarge the preview select zoom 2:1.

    Or use the ffmpeg commandline for trimming as you did before if you can't get along with Avidemux on Ubuntu. This also works.
    Last edited by Sharc; 22nd Nov 2023 at 01:31.
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    @Satimis, yes, you can put the file into Dropbox and post the link here, then we can download it.

    By the looks of it, you should be able to do a "snip" with your AVIDemux now; you have all the necessary controls visible. Just have a stab at a rough time; a very small portion of the "0995_original.mp4" file will be good.
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    Originally Posted by Sharc
    OMG. You don't need to zoom anything.
    Yes you do, Sharc. Try it. If my zoom isn't set properly, the A and B control line drops off the bottom of the screen.

    Observe the difference between Satimis' first screen (111%) and their last (25%).
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  30. Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Originally Posted by Sharc
    OMG. You don't need to zoom anything.
    Yes you do, Sharc. Try it. If my zoom isn't set properly, the A and B control line drops off the bottom of the screen.

    Observe the difference between Satimis' first screen (111%) and their last (25%).
    Resizing (zooming) the Avidemux window yes, but not the video preview explicitely. Anyway, let's hope for success.

    (Edit:
    His problem seems to be the desktop scaling with Ubuntu which I can't reproduce here.)
    Last edited by Sharc; 22nd Nov 2023 at 02:04.
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