GV-USB2 only captures progressive?

[lollo]

Just so you know, in my Aug 20 post in this thread, I was very careful not to write anything you'd find overly objectionable (or so I thought), with the goal of us not hijacking another post in a circular disagreement.

But you wrote this in your site https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/13701-pal-uk-vhs.html:

OBS and AmaRecTV are both "broadcast" software -- and that term is used very loosely. It elicits eye rolls from those who actually work in broadcast. It's just streaming software.

AmaRecTV is somewhat like a beta version of OBS. It was created for the analog source era (mostly video games). It does have have some sort of card hardware/driver access, but the actual capture is apparently not. It does operate somewhat differently from VirtualDub defaults, but VirtualDub can be adjusted (not suggested) to mimic the behavior.

Because of how these software operate, "no dropped frames" is essentially because you're "capturing" a preview where the drops already occurred. That's essentially what the non-TBC frame sync does in DVD recorder output. To date, all discussion of AmaRecTV comparisons have been to DVD recorders, not actual TBCs.

All of this has downsides with signal integrity, and video data is lost. For most users, it matters. Yes, it's "in sync" and "reports no drops", but it's not really accurate.

Which is a complete bullshit and the delirium of an incompetent (about this argument) person.

We can live in a world where facts (yours and mine) can yield conflicting results.

You provided no facts nor any results. On the other hand, there are many on the other side.

Perhaps later, I can't now, but definitely something to re-visit, realistically next year.

See you next year, then. Take care!

[Alwyn]

Which is a complete bullshit and the delirium of an incompetent (about this argument) person.

Lollo, knock it off, will you please? You can disagree but you lose the argument when you start abusing people.

[Bwaak]

Lollo, knock it off, will you please? You can disagree but you lose the argument when you start abusing people.

Really?

[dellsam34]

It has been too much tension lately, not sure why. People can still disagree in a civil way.

[lollo]

Which is a complete bullshit and the delirium of an incompetent (about this argument) person.

Lollo, knock it off, will you please? You can disagree but you lose the argument when you start abusing people.

Can you explain me the difference between me saying:

"incompetent (about this argument) person"

and lordsmurf saying:

"idiot" or "gullible newbies" or worst in many of his posts to some people here and on digitalfaq?

Who's abusing who? Why you did not pointed-out that earlier about him?

So shut-up and mind your own business.

[lollo]

It has been too much tension lately, not sure why.

I agree. I'll reduce my "tone"

[mohamed]

Because you obviously never used and then you cannot report any problem, link a post where the negatives are reported from any users.

Hey Lollo, I like your posts here and the details you share btw.

But I am gonna have to disagree on this one. The thing is you are an amarecTV fanboy Vs an AmarecTV hater. There is no reason to get into heated arguments, it is all for a bunch of VHS tapes anyway

The truth is, both are tools. And they both suck, differently. It is what it is and we are just destined to use these crappy tools and live with them.


Both are software, Vdub sucks, but amarecTV has issues as well that you just never ran into.
- System with comma delimiter will cause issues with NTSC. (rare case, but happens)
- Some Pinnacle cards' audio may not work properly with AmarecTV
- random occasional crash when you click start capture button
- Sometimes you need to delete init file for no reason.
- Once, I did a capture, it gave me a weird result, every couple of frames, one random frame will bottom half totally gray. In the same session I redid the capture with amarecTV, same problem, I captured with Vdub (without restart) the issue did not happen. Was it sth wrong with my PC? with amarec? I guess we will never know.

It has many advantages too, but since you are a fan, there is no reason for me to cite them. There is no reason to hype it no bring it down. It is a tool.

Just because you are happy with it, does not mean everyone else will be.

It is like the hype you do for the Hauppauge, and saying it is as good as IO data GV USB 2. The truth is, it is not worth the hype, it is much inferior to the IO data GV 2 and pinnacle cards, even when used after TBC, with svideo, etc. (planning to open a separate thread with samples for this, just teasing you 😛, we can discuss it later there and then)

[lollo]

I just said since the beginning that with modern OS and cards AmarecTV is better than VirtualDub to keep A/V synch. All the negative you mentioned are minor compared to main goal (capture synch audio and video). And you should check your setup for the weird problems you described.

I badly react where I see lies and no facts (like AmarecTV being a broadcast or a streaming program).

Concernig USB-Live2 post your samples and we’ll check together the results and discuss about them.

But change your tone. If you say fanboy or similar about me, you will not go far away in discussing with me!

Btw we already did a live-2 versus gv-usb comparison not long time ago

[mohamed]

All the negative you mentioned are minor compared to main goal (capture synch audio and video). And you should check your setup for the weird problems you described.

They are not when you can't even start the capture. Or can't capture the audio (as I just mentioned).

I check my setup and I usually more or less, find workarounds, I just thought it would be worth mentioning for people expecting amarecTV to work flawlessly with 0 effort, that there is a slight chance they might run into occasional bugs as well. YMMV. When capturing analog, there is a slight percentage of luck in the story, even if you do everything right. With that said, I still use it and recommend it, depending on the case. It is just a tool.

Btw we already did a live-2 versus gv-usb comparison not long time ago

I know, but it doesn't cover a wide variety of tapes, in different standards. This is why I plan to open this topic again later when I have more time and your contribution to this discussion will surely be needed and welcome. I feel like the topic of capture card comparisons comes up frequently from people who want to buy. So it is worth it to have 1 thread to compile various cards at once to save time for newcomers.

But change your tone. If you say fanboy or similar about me, you will not go far away in discussing with me!

"similar" what is exactly what you consider similar? Also, Fanboy is not an insult... I am a fanboy of the GV2 card for example and I would not mind someone calling me that. I am also a fanboy of Oreo biscuits and any product based on these. I fail to see the offense in that.

I fail to see where my tone may have offended you, sorry if it did. But I think you are not in your best mood rn, Perhaps if you reread the comment again later you will notice there was nothing offensive.

[oln]

One thing to note about the Hauppage usb-live2 is that if you get a newly produced one you could end up getting one with completely different chipset judging by this info about the Diamond VC500 which used to use similar hardware. (Or it's possible the model might change in the not too distant future but hasn't yet.)

[lollo]

I fail to see where my tone may have offended you, sorry if it did.

No, sorry, I did not mean you have offended me. But reading between the lines of your post, is clear that you are not replying or adding (yet) a contribution, but rather addressing your comments directly to me and try to belittle my statements about AmarectTV and USB-Live 2. The fact that you started with a compliment (I like your posts here and the details you share btw) is symptomatic

Going to the fact, I wonder whi you do not have already samples if you find bad performances of the USB-Live 2 versus the GV-USB. You know, as we always say, there is not a unique workflow working for every case. Bogilein (one of the few I trust for capturing experimets, together with Brad and Skiller) often stress on the fact that you need multiple different VCRs and multiple different capture cards to face all cases. If you search long enough I am sure you can find a case where the GV-USB outperform USB-Live 2. The opposite will happen as well.

What you ignore is that I own a GV-USB, and when I have tapes not recorded by me that do not play well on my JVC, I use a Panasonic (without TBC) and then I capture with the IOData. And I am fully satisfied. And I often recommended it.

Is just that in "normal" condition, and with my workflow and in a PAL world, I somehow prefere the USB-Live 2 for more detailed capture (very marginal) and because it does not introduce the gaps in the histogram (I am sure you are aware of that for the GV-USB).
And I also find it closer to the original sources. For many of my captures, I have as reference a digital dump of the original program to compare with. Some example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVRkQQxODf8&list=PLCvrZEXO1laEwh0t1l_VM-U_n5a8mjab-

I am a fanboy of the GV2 card for example

I had no doubt.

Hauppage usb-live2 is that if you get a newly produced one you could end up getting one with completely different chipset

The last USB-Live I checked (bought by a friend in July 2023) still uses the CX23102, as always. If this will chng ein the future because shortage os silicon I do not know, but that video chip is still in production.

[Sharc]

As I have and use(d) both of these (PAL region):
- The GV-USB has a much better Luma/Chroma separating filter which however matters only if one has to capture Composite video.
- The GV-USB has in my setup 'better' default 'proc-amp' settings which need no tweaking to produce valid and legal captures (YUV->RGB).
- The Hauppauge USB live-2 (with the Conexant chip) may capture slightly more details (high frequency components), if existing on the tape. This includes however noise as well.

I don't have a clear preference. Once you know how to operate the devices both give good and useful results.

Just my 2 cents.

[lollo]

Just my 2 cents.

Not 2 cents, you are one of the few I trust as complement to my findings

I 100% agree with your results. Poor comb filter on USB-Live 2 (as we always said), slightly better details captured on the other hand.

But we are both in PAL world. Now let's wait for samples from mohamed, he may have special cases...

[Bwaak]

One thing to note about the Hauppage usb-live2 is that if you get a newly produced one you could end up getting one with completely different chipset judging by this info about the Diamond VC500 which used to use similar hardware. (Or it's possible the model might change in the not too distant future but hasn't yet.)

I wonder whether getting rid of the Conexant chip is related to AverMedia discontinuing its 310B. Maybe the stock of the 2008 chip has dried up? Although the 310B used CX23888.

I have a VC500 that I bought half a year or so ago, my only negative is that the driver seems to be unstable and loses the device once it is disconnected and reconnected. For the price in the U.S. (which is around $30) I think it is a great value. Currently Amazon shows $35. There was a time a year or so ago when it was $26.

[lordsmurf]

One thing to note about the Hauppage usb-live2 is that if you get a newly produced one you could end up getting one with completely different chipset judging by this info about the Diamond VC500 which used to use similar hardware. (Or it's possible the model might change in the not too distant future but hasn't yet.)

I've mentioned that numerous times now. Live2 is a long production card with variations. It just is. Other capture cards have this same issue. Hauppauge is the most guilty of mid-production changes, followed by Pinnacle and various no-names. Why can't Hauppauge just change the model number? It's a different model now!

But it's not just capture cards. Panasonic AG-1980P decks are known for this as well. Or Cypress TBCs (AVT-8710, etc).

It's just the nature of tech component life cycles. Some of this stuff is only manufactured or fabbed for 6-12-18 months, then gone forever. Companies buy up stock they think they'll need for the model. If the model continues (due to sales), and the parts of not available, they swap and alter. That's fine for some things, but can be make-or-break for others. Not just capture cards, but SSD, etc.

(I actually know the answer to it: people are stupid. "Why does the model keep changing? It changes too much!")

[lollo]

I've mentioned that numerous times now. Live2 is a long production card with variations.

Not again please. I am tired of this. Oln was just pointing to a case with VC500. Post a picture of a Live-2 using different chips, otherwise.

It's just the nature of tech component life cycles. Some of this stuff is only manufactured or fabbed for 6-12-18 months

The nature of components is that when we change fab for whatever reason, there are many qualification procedures and non-regression test. CX23102 is in production since many years and still is. If the manufacturing silicon fabs change (which is common in our semiconductor industries), the final product is absolutely compliant.

[lollo]

I have a VC500 that I bought half a year or so ago, my only negative is that the driver seems to be unstable and loses the device once it is disconnected and reconnected. For the price in the U.S. (which is around $30) I think it is a great value.

VC500 is a favourite of many users

[dellsam34]

(I actually know the answer to it: people are stupid. "Why does the model keep changing? It changes too much!")

I guess that's why the Ford F-150 is still the Ford F-150, the same goes for the Chevy Silverado and the likes. Despite looking completely different, People get confused by model changes and actually there is a placebo effect to it, people who couldn't afford it before and now they can, they go buy it, But if it is a different model they may go with another manufacturer. Not sure if this applies to a capture devise but it is true for a lot of consumer products.

[Bwaak]

I guess that's why the Ford F-150 is still the Ford F-150, the same goes for the Chevy Silverado and the likes. Despite looking completely different, People get confused by model changes and actually there is a placebo effect to it, people who couldn't afford it before and now they can, they go buy it, But if it is a different model they may go with another manufacturer. Not sure if this applies to a capture devise but it is true for a lot of consumer products.

I think there are simpler explanations, like a manufacturer wants to have a model spanning for decades to make a claim that it has produced zillions of Corollas or Golfs or F-150s. Fewer new names to invent. Fewer names for customers to memorize. These model names could be as well alphabet letters or numbers: A, B, C, D, E... If you say that you drive A-classe, then you have the smallest one.

Consumer electronic branding usually follows a slightly different scheme, after all, service manuals are released for a particular model, although there are also revisions, and sometimes you can only see the revision on a circuit board after you open the machine.

I wonder whether video converter dongles even have service manuals

[mohamed]

But in any case, I haven’t found anyone having the same issue as mine of not seeing the options for 29.94 fps in the settings.

I do not see it neither with amarectv, I set it manually. I sometimes see it if I fire the "device settings" thing and change standard back and forth. I do not remember the exact details to make it appear, but I don't put too much effort in it anyway, typing it manually works.

One thing to note about the Hauppage usb-live2 is that if you get a newly produced one you could end up getting one with completely different chipset judging by this info about the Diamond VC500 which used to use similar hardware. (Or it's possible the model might change in the not too distant future but hasn't yet.)

Oln, I have 4x usb live 2 devices, from 2 different countries, bought on 3 different timelines. None of them had the same packaging as the other.
BUT, all of them used the same Conexant chip. And the video quality seems to be the same. But the build quality (outer dongle and cables) and usability (lag when switching standards, or source etc) seems to vary. Unlike the other 3, My most recent one from 2022 is the worst among them, the dongle is a darker grey than the others, it sometimes give black and white image and you have to wiggle the cable. It is the least used one, yet the the worst-shape among them. My oldest one can get stuck when switching standards without using the official software. A possible workaround is to plug the stuck device in a different computer. If you replug 100 times in the same computer it will remain stuck. It has to be a different one. the 2nd most recent does not have this issue. If you always switch using official software, close it, and then open your 3rd party capture software then you are safe. Getting the device to be stuck will not always happen, just sometimes. But one could argue that each of my units had flaws. ُeither way, These are not things I consider when comparing the visual quality of final capture.

As to recent devices, post Conextant's existence, I did see one interesting case, very recently, a friend bought one from Amazon, it kept lagging and making the software crash. He could with 100% reproducibility crash the capture by bringing up the menu on his JVC, during captures lag/freeze like what you see with black AVT would happen in the preview, but the captures (as long as you do not bring the menu up) will remain ok. We assumed it was one faulty unit, so it was returned and he borrowed one of my cards. It was not my card, and we had a limited return window, So I could not inspect the card further, I cannot confirm the chipset it had, I have no reason to believe it used a different chip. I just think it is a matter of less quality control on some runs.

--------------------------------
Lollo,

But reading between the lines of your post

there is no between the lines in what I write. What I write is what I want to say, nothing hidden. There is nothing wrong with complimenting people when they do useful effort. Do you have reasons to believe that you did not do a valuable effort in analyzing various samples across the forum, is there a reason to belive that your efforts are useless and that I do not value them?

The only reason I thanked you is because I spent hours during the last years lurking, I won't bump an old thread to thank you, nor send a PM "hey, I liked your post from 2020." + I just had the habit of not posting here because of the general hostility of some mods and some people here. I thought I would give it another shot now since I had sth relevant to say for a current conversation, but again I was greeted with hostility that I could not understand...

Now that I had the chance to thank you, I took it. My intentions are mine, your interpretation is yours. The reason you choose to see the unexisting bad, behind the good, is beyond me. I don't know you IRL, I have no bad history with you, nor do I have a reason to belittle you as a person, nor your statements in general. In fact, no one should, not over a bunch of 20-40 year-old magnetic tapes.

If you have experience with other members that you think are belittling you, be it here, or other forums, that's a problem. But don't hold it against me, please.

Some example here:

No need to reference your channel. I watched all the videos there and I am subscribed. One of the reasons I thanked you.

I simply said, your posts are constructive, but hey this one you make it look like Amarec deserves 9/10, and I am saying I had bad luck with it, and to me it should be around 7-8/10.

is clear that you are not replying or adding (yet) a contribution, but rather addressing your comments directly to me and try to belittle my statements about AmarectTV and USB-Live 2

I did contribute with on-topic details. The comma bug on some EU versions of Windows 10 and Windows 7, and the audio bug for some pinnacle cards. "belittle" is a very strong word. I merely stated that, factually, Amarec TV has bugs as well, why I cared to mention it? because what I understood is that you seemed interested and said LS cannot report bugs with Amarec and he does not use it, so I thought I would mention some. Had I known that you did not welcome such details, I would have, as usual, continued scrolling and not taken the time to disturb you, nor waste my time on mentioning those. I did not come out of the blue to mention it for no reason, you asked about Amarec's bugs in page 1, I mentioned some.

> is symptomatic
It is not. Again, I cannot control what you want to believe. It is up to you to believe me or not. I am not the kind to waste my time patting you on the back to insult you (if I wanted to, but again I am not even addressing you on a personal level)

If I did not value your opinion or contributions, I would not have cared to mention the comparisons I am working on and ask you to join when the time comes.

whi you do not have already samples if you find bad performances of the USB-Live 2 versus the GV-USB.

I have the samples for that Thread. 100 gigs to be shared, 3 different standards, with different workflows (with/without frame tbc, es10,etc) varying as needed to highlight the power/weakness of each card. (+ my own private captures that I will not share) They just need trimming and adjustment to be comparable as I won't share 100 GB of lossless captures. I only compared by importing everything in AVspmod. manually moving the frame slider etc. Not friendly for others.



I have no idea what I have done to reach your fuses, but whatever it is, It would be nice if, for the interest of remaining on topic you stop taking things (at least coming from me) personally, and consider them for what they are, mere statements about tools and devices. Nothing personal Nothing against you.

[lordsmurf]

but it is true for a lot of consumer products.

I think there are simpler explanations, like a manufacturer wants to have a model spanning for decades

This is the same reason brand names get sold and licensed. Nobody wants a Funai, but the lemmings will buy Toshiba without question.

The nature of components is that when we change fab for whatever reason, there are many qualification procedures and non-regression test. CX23102 is in production since many years and still is. If the manufacturing silicon fabs change (which is common in our semiconductor industries), the final product is absolutely compliant.

While all true, it's more complicated than that. For one thing, revisions. And then on-chip firmware/software matters.

... but it's not worth having the discussion again. We just disagree here, and let's just leave it at that. You're having an unusually good capture experience, and that's what matters. I'm just helping those who are unable to recreate your success.

[oln]

If there is a major change in hardware you will most likely see it on their website since it will be using different drivers. E.g macrosilicon IC noted to be used in the new VC500 is UVC and thus needs no driver so I don't think hauppauge has have done any major hardware switch as of now. They would probably change the product number if they did. Sorry for taking this off track with my comment, that wasn't my intention.

[lollo]

I simply said, your posts are constructive, but hey this one you make it look like Amarec deserves 9/10, and I am saying I had bad luck with it, and to me it should be around 7-8/10.

Where did you read me saying that?

AmarecTV has many defects (but you should write 999 for frame rate, rather than playing with settings, and restart/reboot every time you change standard, is probably a driver issues, I experimented Secam troubles with my Live-2). Is just better than Virtual with modern OS and modern cards keeping a/v synch.

I just defend AmarecTV versus insane crusade against it, I am not a fan of a tool, as you properly said.

As I said earlier, I wrote my own capture. Guess what? Is problematic, because I had no time/expertize to develop a routine to insert a frame if it does not arrive in time, so I can only rely on Microsoft AVI Muxer filter to take into account droppes frames. For pristine tapes is ok, for tapes with glitches and troubles not even fixable by a TBC is problematic.

There is not a perfect tool for capturing all conditions wise. AmarecTV today is the less problematic. That's all.

It would be nice if, for the interest of remaining on topic you stop taking things (at least coming from me) personally, and consider them for what they are, mere statements about tools and devices.

I'll do it

We just disagree here

It is not a question of disagreeing, but about facts. But I agree to stop this neven ending debate here.

I'm just helping those who are unable to recreate your success.

There is no success to recreate. Once more, a good capture relies on the conditions of the tape first, and then on the player. Capture card is important to do not degrade what's on tape, but there are several devices doing that.

As I answered to mohamed, specific problems are better solved by some combinations of the elements in the workflow, and often not by a unique choice.

BTW, I try to help others in being able to capture what they have on tape as well, whether they use a workflow similar to mine, or not. If I fail or if I succed I cannot know for certain.

Sorry for taking this off track with my comment, that wasn't my intention.

No problem, you're a great resource for the community with all your contributions.