Logilink USB Video/Audio Grabber (VG0029)

[Minar]

Hi all,

I am unsure if this is the appropriate forum for my query. I have spent several hours searching online but have been unable to find a solution.

My issue pertains to the Logilink USB Video/Audio Grabber (VG0029). The device uses the default Windows 10 driver (Masster AVcap). I have successfully connected it to two different VHS players using s-video and composite cables. Although the audio is functioning well, the video appears to be jumping erratically. I have tested both 32 and 64-bit versions of VirtualDub2, but the problem persists. I guess it's not Virtualdub that is the problem, I tested with OBS too.

I tested to select "Microsoft WDM Image Capture - But it Blue-screen the system :

[Attachment 70671 - Click to enlarge]

As the issue is not with the VHS players, I suspect that there may be a problem with the capture device itself or maybe with Windows 10. I would greatly appreciate any troubleshooting tips that could help me to identify the root cause of the problem. What and where do I have to look?

In the meantime, I have purchased a new capture device, the Digilink VG0030. Although this device is relatively inexpensive, I am uncertain whether the issue lies with the original device or elsewhere.

Thank you

PS:


Edit :

[Attachment 70670 - Click to enlarge]

[DB83]

There's a certain quote that comes to mind "You get what you pay for"

Sorry. But that capture device purely from what it apparently costs < 20 euro is just another easycap (easycrap) knock off. The driver you mention is not specific for your device but is a generic one - it might work but there are plenty of online comments that it often does not.


You may get better luck with the 2nd device but if that is just as cheap then do not bank on it.


To get proper captures, and esp with Win10, you require a solid device with good driver support straight from the manuf. Plenty of topics on here that mention the better ones. And they costs significantly more than you are paying right now.

[Minar]

In the past (approximately two years ago), the device had functioned properly when I attempted to use it. These devices are similar to other electronics in that they are manufactured with identical components but have different designs. They typically range in price from $20 to $60, with the internal components remaining the same.

That's why I didn't get head first in the most expensive ones.

It is possible that updates to Windows 10 may have caused issues or that some other unforeseen problem occurred. It is also peculiar that Windows 10 crashes when selecting 'Microsoft WDM Image Capture'.

Tomorrow, I will test the new revised version (VG0030 instead of 0029) to see if it experiences the same issue. If it does, then I will know that the issue lies with the computer rather than the device itself. If the new one works, maybe it just "went bad", I've seen it with other electronic products. And maybe it's why Windows has a blue screen when I want to use Microsoft WDM Image Capture with it.

[DB83]

Here's another quotation. "Let's throw some good money after bad"

That 'revised' capture device might still use the proven-to-be-bad generic driver. Just ask yourself what does 'VG' stand for. It certainly does not stand for 'Very Good'


But do prove me wrong. The 'revised' may work. Yet the whole issue could be Win10 which is not the most usb capture-friendly OS (even if Win10 can be described, correctly, as an OS. It has 'killed' many a driver and that generic one could well be amongst them. Any device worth its salt should include a driver more-or-less guaranteed to work.


Yet the cheapness of VG0030 does not instill confidence.


True that Win10 has 'killed' many a previously-working device. But when you rely on third-party drivers you at the mercy of the unknown.

[Alwyn]

And yet another quotation: "Let's wait and see, shall we?".

[oln]

You far from the first to have this sort of issue in win10 with a capture dongle with that chipset:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/402211-Windows-10-update-has-rendered-USB-2861-Cap...evice-unstable

One or more win10 updates at one point broke a lot of capture device drivers and unless the driver has been updated or you can find one for a device with similar guts that supports it that is you'll likely to run into issues with these. These USB dongles are typically based on some generic OEM design with a bunch of different branding, usually with pretty minimal changes by the brand that's selling them so updated drivers are often hard to come by (though Logilink is at least not a complete no-name brand).

It's possible they swapped to use a different set of components in the VG0030 version since their website claims windows 11 support though there is no driver download so don't know what exactly.

[Minar]

Here's another quotation. "Let's throw some good money after bad"

That 'revised' capture device might still use the proven-to-be-bad generic driver. Just ask yourself what does 'VG' stand for. It certainly does not stand for 'Very Good'


But do prove me wrong. The 'revised' may work. Yet the whole issue could be Win10 which is not the most usb capture-friendly OS (even if Win10 can be described, correctly, as an OS. It has 'killed' many a driver and that generic one could well be amongst them. Any device worth its salt should include a driver more-or-less guaranteed to work.


Yet the cheapness of VG0030 does not instill confidence.


True that Win10 has 'killed' many a previously-working device. But when you rely on third-party drivers you at the mercy of the unknown.

I have ordered the new device before posting on the forum, it should arrive tomorrow. I will test it and share my results. Meanwhile, I will check if the issue persists with my friend's laptop using my current device.

It's possible that the device itself is causing the problem, and I think it's reasonable to spend another $25, 2 years after, to check if the device is at fault or if it's the drivers/computer before investing in something more expensive.

After reading other threads, I noticed that none of them mention the type of drivers or internal chipset used (or whatever). I also noticed external recorders that record on SD cards, but that's not what I'm looking for because they don't record uncompressed videos.

In the dashcam market, it doesn't matter if you spend $200 or $60, as there's a high probability that they were manufactured with the same electronics and sold with an inflated price. Especially with all these different brands, that are owned by the same people.

That's why I'm asking specific questions here to see if anyone has encountered a similar issue and to identify the root cause.

There are many brands not sold where I am. I'm limited anyway.

[Minar]

You far from the first to have this sort of issue in win10 with a capture dongle with that chipset:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/402211-Windows-10-update-has-rendered-USB-2861-Cap...evice-unstable

One or more win10 updates at one point broke a lot of capture device drivers and unless the driver has been updated or you can find one for a device with similar guts that supports it that is you'll likely to run into issues with these. These USB dongles are typically based on some generic OEM design with a bunch of different branding, usually with pretty minimal changes by the brand that's selling them so updated drivers are often hard to come by (though Logilink is at least not a complete no-name brand).

It's possible they swapped to use a different set of components in the VG0030 version since their website claims windows 11 support though there is no driver download so don't know what exactly.

For cheap devices like these, I think the "upgraded" versions are still the same, but with new drivers.
It would make sense to keep cost very low and make new sales.

We'll see tomorrow when I'll have the new one. I'm still gonna test the VG0029 I have on a Windows 10 laptop, so I can at least remove my computer out of the equation.

[DB83]

Well, with the greatest respect, we do not have a clue 'where you are'

But having said that sellers such as Amazon will ship to many parts of the world. And certain branches of Amazon eg Germany or France will ship to parts that other branches do not.


And beyond that manufacturers such as Hauppauge will still ship direct. Sure. It is gonna cost. Yet you might well have outlayed half the cost of a decent device in getting one that is {add your own word here}. Tis easy to write after the event but a topic BEFORE you invested in the 'upgraded' device could have saved you the pain should that device also not work.

[Minar]

Well, with the greatest respect, we do not have a clue 'where you are'

But having said that sellers such as Amazon will ship to many parts of the world. And certain branches of Amazon eg Germany or France will ship to parts that other branches do not.


And beyond that manufacturers such as Hauppauge will still ship direct. Sure. It is gonna cost. Yet you might well have outlayed half the cost of a decent device in getting one that is {add your own word here}. Tis easy to write after the event but a topic BEFORE you invested in the 'upgraded' device could have saved you the pain should that device also not work.

Okay,

I didn't want to assume anything based on your way of responding, because it's text. But now I realize what's happening here after reading your initial responses again.

Who cares where I am? I'm not talking to you personally anyway, and there is no "we" here (you represent yourself only). I was just providing general information, and there is nothing to expand on it. I didn't ask anything about this particular subject. It's just to give context.

I am aware that we can buy anything anywhere in the world for the past 20 years, but this has nothing to do with anything said here. Also, many items do not ship to my location from Amazon France/UK/Germany/US.

Additionally, any of these devices can have problems running on some hardware, so suggesting to buy anything without considering the specific hardware is a pretty bad suggestion.

Tis easy to write after the event

What does that even mean... what's easy?!

I pointed out that I bought the second device before posting here, and I'm just sharing what I'm doing. It's just an information! There is nothing to expand on it, it's just to give more context of what's happening.

I posted a technical issue for people to chime in if they have any ideas about what could have happened, if they experienced it, or what they did about it. That's it. And I'm sharing everything I did (until now) on the subject and what I'm going to do.

This is how forums work, and maybe when someone will google "Logilink VG0029, image glitches... or whatever", they'll find this thread with as much details as possible.

I'm pretty sure that there's a 95% chance for the device OR driver to be the problem. But spending 25 bucks is pocket change to be 100% sure of it. But again, that's me saying what I'm doing, and not asking to anyone if it's a good move or not. And like it was said before, since it's a revised version, and they say that it's supported by "windows 11", there is a bit more chance to have it work.

Btw, I'm not here to "prove anyone wrong" like you said.

Don't take it the wrong way, these responses are going nowhere and are very annoying. I just did the first ones to be polite, but I think you're gas-lighting me, that's why I'm responding like this now.

Anyway, I'll post my results tomorrow. Good or bad, it doesn't really matter (I mean, it matters to me lol), but other than that, it doesn't matter because it's gonna be more information for those who are looking for that.

EDIT:
Thanks to oln for sharing something that expand on the subject, and is helpful.

[lollo]

Allright, but the appropriate answer to solve the problem should have been since the beginning "avoid that junk card and its drivers for a proper capture" instead of anything else. This will also avoid other users to have problems.

On the other hand, if you insist on using it and found a solution, it will be helpful for others sharing your approach, so let see if you'll succed.

[Minar]

Allright, but the appropriate answer to solve the problem should have been since the beginning "avoid that junk card and its drivers for a proper capture" instead of anything else. This will also avoid other users to have problems.

On the other hand, if you insist on using it and found a solution, it will be helpful for others sharing your approach, so let see if you'll succed.

Well, like I said, it worked totally fine in the past. I'm only insisting because there is no reason not to try the basic steps of troubleshooting because it costs nothing to just plug it into another computer. And even with the


And like I said, the new device was already bought and shipped, so no reason to not test everything.

[Minar]

I received the Logilink VG0030
The vg0030 displays a stable image at least, but the image is already de-interlaced, and there are no controls like with the older one.

That was one of the reason I liked the old one, it just passed the signal raw, no processing, and I could decide what to do with it. Deinterlace it myself.

I can only capture in MJPEG eew, and it's not even in a PAL format. Which the old one didn't use lol.

Anyway, like I said, it's not of a big of a deal. Now It looks like the VG0030 is worse than the previous model (but at least it "works")


[Attachment 70706 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 70707 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 70708 - Click to enlarge]

[DB83]

As you said "At least it works"

From a viewpoint of troubleshooting, can you describe the installation process of this new one. It does appear that the unit has hard-wired mjpeg encoding rather than soft-wired. Is there a driver installation ?


If you are going to use it then I would, if you can, change the 'default' from 720*480 to 640*480. At least then you will get 4:3 natively.


As for the other one, as stated by myself and later confirmed by Oln, it is more than likely that Win10 has 'killed' it. Investing in another will probably give similar results since all are typically based on this Empia chipset (and if you think my words were harsh, thank yourself lucky that lordsmurf - who does know his stuff - has not seen the topic.)


The 'we' is a referral to the general community on here. We give our advice on which capture devices to get not based on a whim but by actually using them. You could buck the system by installing Win7 on your PC which is a whole lot more capture-friendly than Win10. No we do not know your hardware and generally that should not be critical certainly when you state that unit worked before.


And the only suggestion I can make with Vdub and the old one is that you turn audio preview off (unless you already tried this)


Unless you want to ask more questions are not simply argue I will leave the topic now.

[Minar]

As you said "At least it works"

From a viewpoint of troubleshooting, can you describe the installation process of this new one. It does appear that the unit has hard-wired mjpeg encoding rather than soft-wired. Is there a driver installation ?

There was no driver installation (I contacted logilink to see if they have specific drivers for it). I don't have hope for that.

If you are going to use it then I would, if you can, change the 'default' from 720*480 to 640*480. At least then you will get 4:3 natively.

Yeah that's what I changed, but I won't use it. Of course it's better than having nothing to capture, but the quality is pretty trash.
I won't use it, since I need to capture the most raw feed possible so I can archive old VHS properly.

I'll just buy the Hauppauge USB-Live-2 at 50 bucks, and return the Logilink VG0030. If you tell me that the Hauppauge would just do what the old one did (before it stop working)

The 'we' is a referral to the general community on here. We give our advice on which capture devices to get not based on a whim but by actually using them. You could buck the system by installing Win7 on your PC which is a whole lot more capture-friendly than Win10. No we do not know your hardware and generally that should not be critical certainly when you state that unit worked before.

Yeah I know, sorry I was heated in my previous comment.
I had so many experience in the past with "more expensive" electronic devices that are just worse than the cheaper ones.
Glitches appart, the old one outputs exactly what I needed/need, it's just "raw" PAL. The new one, lol, well, seems to be a trash revision.

As for the other one, as stated by myself and later confirmed by Oln, it is more than likely that Win10 has 'killed' it. Investing in another will probably give similar results since all are typically based on this Empia chipset (and if you think my words were harsh, thank yourself lucky that lordsmurf - who does know his stuff - has not seen the topic.)

And it's a shame, because my old Logilink was the only one just outputting the images without any processing on it, years ago when I wasn't serious at all about saving my VHS tapes. I knew the ones I tested were trash (not the vg0029 at the time), but I wasn't serious about it.

I have a question, it's totally out of the scope of my knowledge on the subject.
What's happening with the new model I bought is because of the internal themselves, or just the drivers (or both)?
Meaning, the device is capable to act like the vg0029, but the drivers are just trash, or is it a worse version, and the drivers do what they are supposed to do with the device.

[DB83]

Well there does not appear to be a driver. The new unit appears to act as 'plug 'n play'. Your system recognises the device and acts accordingly.

But with the unit plugged in you can go to device manager, locate the device and check the driver tab. Report back with what you see.


Just one thing that puzzled me was that certain vdub screens from your new caps were in English but others were in French ?



Yes. I do use a Hauppauge usb-live2 but have remained on Win7. But I do believe that other respondents are on Win10 and also have this device.

[Minar]

What I got from Logilink support just now :

...the VG0030 is a plug and play device, which means that Windows automatically installs the drivers...

That's what I have in the Device Manager

[Attachment 70710 - Click to enlarge]

[Minar]

Well, guess what.
I found a Terratec Grabby in my closet where I had tons of old electronics!

There was a CD with it, I installed the driver, Win 10 didn't recognize the device, it works. It says that the driver is from 2009


[Attachment 70715 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 70717 - Click to enlarge]

I still have to see if the s-video output work too

Edit: Well, the image is now jumping too .... and I saw that Windows removed the driver to put their shitty one.. WTF

[oln]

Suspect they've changed hardware on the VG0030 then and it's some UVC/camera compatible device which unfortunately means it might only output mjpeg/640x480 or similar rather than lossless 720x___ then.

If they haven't changed the internals of the hauppauge recently it is based on a different chipset (Conexant Polaris) than either of these logilink devices that does work fine on windows 10 still as far as I know. Devices with that chipset do not handle input directly from a VCR particularly well (not that others do either but these are especially bad) so you might want to consider getting one of the dvd-recorder models people discuss here to send the video output through for stabilization to get a much better result.

EDIT(reply while I was writing): Later revisions of the Terratec Grabby uses this chipset as well so your grabby is likely gonna work somewhat similar to the hauppauge usb-live2.

[Minar]

I believe I found out why the Logilink (and now my Terratec) don't work!
Windows constantly overide the drivers installed manually.

I imagine that he did it with the Logilink too, Windows just want to use their driver.

Anyone knows how to force install a particular driver? I was able to do it with the Terratec Grabber just 1h ago!!! The device wasn't recognized in the Device Manager, I selected manually the driver that was on the CD, it work.

The image was perfect. I disconnected the usb cable to put it on another port, then the image started to glitch like the Logilink! I checked the device manager, and Windows removed the Driver I installed to put theirs..

[DB83]

Well if that driver you 'found' is dated 2009 it is most def NOT a Win10 driver (which is only current from 2015)

Would go a long way to explain why once a device id disconnected the 'default' driver takes over.

[Minar]

Well if that driver you 'found' is dated 2009 it is most def NOT a Win10 driver (which is only current from 2015)

Would go a long way to explain why once a device id disconnected the 'default' driver takes over.

[Attachment 70718 - Click to enlarge]

Well it worked, just for a little bit.

What I did was :
1) Connect the Terratec
2) Windows didn't recognize it in the device manager, and there was a /!\ (which is good because Windows didn't install anything)
3) I installed the drivers manually by pointing at the folder on the CD (which was in the box)
4) It installed it

Then it worked as expected, flawless image, no jump/glitches.

I decided to just connect the usb cable from the front panel to the back, so it's cleaner...

I relaunched VirtualDub2, selected the device, then it started to glitch exactly like the other one.

I went in the device manager, and saw that the driver wasn't the one from Terratec anymore, but from Windows.

So when I plugged the usb cable in the back, Windows just decided to swap what I installed by their trash.

Now I can't just uninstall it, because each time I connect the usb cable, it install the Windows version again. And manually selecting the .inf file doesn't work either, saying that the folder doesn't contain a compatible driver for the device.

lol

I'm just gonna give up

[oln]

There is a windows setting you can disable, which may or may not help.
What's the diver file called? If it's as old as 2009 it might be the terratec grabby variant that uses empia chips so will have the same problem as the logilink one. Unless there is an updated driver floating around there somewhere I don't think there is any way to make them work on windows 10/11, would have to use a win7 install (some also work under linux).

I-O Data GV-USB2 is another option for composite/s-video capture that I can confirm works on up to date win10.

[Minar]

So, I'm back.
I just gave up with the cheap one, and received the Hauppauge USB Live 2
Everything seems to work

[lollo]

Use AmarecTV, not VirtualDub2 for lossless YUV 4:2:2 capturing.
WinTV and Hauppauge Capture only create mpeg2 files.

[DB83]

Wellcome back

Your 'edited' post could be misleading. I received the original - unedited - version.


So did you have sound under vdub - would still like to explore that avenue if you did not (or you realised an error in your workflow and corrected it and then edited your post accordingly)


Even so, AmarecTv is a quite 'friendly' capture program - much more friendly that vdub - so I must side with lollo in that respect.

[Alwyn]

Your 'edited' post could be misleading. I received the original - unedited - version.

Seriously DB83?

[lordsmurf]

AmarecTv is a quite 'friendly' capture program - much more friendly that vdub - so I must side with lollo in that respect.

I took a deep look at AmaRecTV this week.

It seems that AmaRecTV drops frames because it's designed to. It only reports drops that are not expected. It ignores expected frame drops. It's essentially creating transport streams. TS is designed to maintain sync, and hide the errors as best as possible (audio attenuation, dupes, etc). AmaRecTV was created for analog live camera work (webcams), and video games streams. That necessitates TS. Anybody with broadcast experience knows about the limitations and lack of momentary AV/file integrity with TS. It's not meant for videotapes. Wrong tool. It's no better than playing the tape on the computer, then aiming your phone at the screen.

It was essentially the analog era beta version of OBS. Unlike OBS, which re-records from the preview display layers via screen recording, AmaRecTV did directly connect to the capture hardware output.

AmaRecTV is not a magical program that magically maintains sync. It ain't magic. There's a reason for it. You're losing data.

VirtualDub's capture mode was created for capturing analog videotapes, and analog PVR/timeshift of analog cable/antenna TV. (It did well at videotapes, hit-or-miss for TV. Better PVR apps existed at the time, with integrated guides/etc.)

VirtualDub reports all drops, unless disabled by ticking the top pair of timing settings options.

Just to mention it, VirtualDub2 attempts to correct some issues with VirtualDub, but added just as many new bugs. The 2 capture mode often induces drops, especially at recording start, even with TBCs and quality cards in use. It builds on (add bugs) from pre-2/FM (FilterMod) version, which was based on 1.10.x which added some bugs not in 1.9.x. When it works, it works. When not, very definitely not.

I'm not a VirtualDub fan, but it's the best we have for this legacy task. (If a coder wants to streamline it, let's talk, let's do it, PM me.)

[Alwyn]

So, we have AmarecTV that might drop frames which are unreported and maintains sync or

we have VDub that might drop frames which are reported and sometimes puts videos out of sync.

I know which one I'd prefer to work with on the timeline.

Lordsmurf, what is an "expected" frame drop?

[lollo]

AmarecTv is a quite 'friendly' capture program - much more friendly that vdub - so I must side with lollo in that respect.

I took a deep look at AmaRecTV this week.

Then you have no understanding nor kwnoledge to do that.

AmaRecTV drops frames. It's designed to.
It only reports drops that are not expected. It ignores expected frame drops.

Bullshit. I verified across several comparison with analog captured program versus others sources (DVB-S, DVB-T, Digital Betacam). For use cases where there are or not dropped/inserted frames.

It's essentially creating transport streams. TS is designed to maintain sync, and hide the errors as best as possible (audio attenuation, dupes, etc).

Bullshit at the top. MPEG-2 concepts for AVI architecture???

You have no idea of what is a program stream and a transport stream, and how they do not apply to avi lossless captures. Transport stream is created for lossy transmission (e.g. DVB-S and DVB-T) in contrast to storing data on a disk (e.g. DVD), where no loss happens in the "transmission".
It adds specific timestamps and audio/video frames architecture to deal with incoming loss of packets. And allows several streams. And many other features.

I specifically wrote some procedures for PVA file management (created by WinTV DVB-S and Nexus cards), a Technotrend specific format very similar to transport stream, but more compact, in order to have an alternative to PVAStrumento and ProjectX.

The audio/video packets interleaved in the avi streams have nothing to do with that.

Some link for you to study and to avoid to spread your non sense/bullshit across the web:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/directshow/avi-mux-filter
https://learn.microsoft.com/it-it/windows/win32/directshow/capturing-video-to-an-avi-f...ectedfrom=MSDN

It was created for analog live camera work (webcams), and video games streams. That necessitates TS. Anybody with broadcast experience knows about the limitations and lack of integrity with TS. It's not meant for videotapes. Wrong tool. It's no better than playing the tape on the computer, then aiming your phone at the screen.

It was created for capturing through analog cards or live camera, or whatever else it can interface. Like VirtualDub.
And BTW I have "broadcast" experience because I was part of a team of engineers working in hardware and software set top box (SAGEM in France), and ready to tear down any of your bullshit.

AmaRecTV did directly connect to the capture hardware output.

This is the only correct sentence you made.

AmaRecTV is not a magical program that magically maintains sync. It ain't magic. There's a reason for it. You're losing data.

False, AmarecTV does not loose anything that is not reported.

VirtualDub's capture mode was created for capturing analog videotapes, and analog PVR/timeshift of analog cable/antenna TV. (It did well at videotapes, hit-or-miss for TV.

VirtualDub was created at the time of analog capture with separated video and audio cards. There is reason for all the options in the setting, to also deal with jitter (always present) of the clocks inside the audio card and the video card, because they cannot be exactely the same even if a Quartz Oscillator is used. If it works, ok, but today it often fails with audio/video integrated cards and modern OS.

Now, if you like to insist, post some evidence of what you wrote with technical examples, and data and results of experiments, otherwise stop your bullshit and your insane crusade against AmarecTV. Every single day there are more and more evidences across many forums on how AmarecTV in better than VirtualDub today in keeping synch.