DVIO vs. WinDV vs. ScenalyzerLive - Which one to use?

[dellsam34]

The front panel has input selection, If DV is selected as an input then it can't output DV, Can it?

[Alwyn]

Are you telling or asking? That switch is for input type selection, as per the manual. It doesn't say Input/Output selection. There's no mention of needing to put it on S-Video or Line to get an output from the Firewire port. Why would you need such a thing? Obviously if a tape is playing, nothing is going to be coming in.

[Alwyn]

If the Clearclick is recording video from each of your camcorders (and VTRs, I assume), then the heads on each are probably OK. The problem may be your Firewire cable/socket on your computer, or the Windows Firewire drivers. They would appear to be the only common points in your workflow.

What Windows version are you using?

[tmmr]

Go through the manual settings.

There's nothing in this manual that indicates there is a manual output-select function.

Correct, I have the manual. When you set the input select to DV, and connect firewire, it will automatically output the signal when you play a tape. I know it works because I can output via firewire to one of the mini-DV cameras I have and display it on there. It just won't display in Scenalyzer or winDV.

[tmmr]

If the Clearclick is recording video from each of your camcorders (and VTRs, I assume), then the heads on each are probably OK. The problem may be your Firewire cable/socket on your computer, or the Windows Firewire drivers. They would appear to be the only common points in your workflow.

What Windows version are you using?

I'm using Windows 10. ClearClick does not have firewire input, just RCA or S-video. The camcorders don't play the tapes properly anymore, the audio and video have drops and misses and get pixelated. Both the VCR's I have will output to the ClearClick. But the quality is not as good as with Scenalyzer.

I know the firewire input is working on the computer, because I can input from the camcorders into Scenalyzer, and it displays and can capture. But the quality is all chopped up because the camcorder heads have gone bad. But when I hook the firewire conector into one of the DV VCR's, neither Scenalyzer nor winDV can display/capture the input. But as I said, in Scenalyzer, it can still start and stop the tape in the VCR, just can't display or capture the video/audio.

[Alwyn]

...

[tmmr]

...

I'm using Windows 10, not sure which firewire card. But as I said: I can input to the computer, and to Scenalyzer, from the camcorders via the firewire connector. So I know the firewire socket and the firewire drivers are working. But I can't input to Scenalyzer from the VCR's.

[Alwyn]

Sorry, I removed that post because you covered most of it before I'd finished it.

It appears that you'll be forced down a analogue path or spend money on, for example, a head cleaning tape for the camcorders, Pinnacle 500/710 to convert DV losslessly from your VTRs to USB for capture by Scenalyzer, or an analogue digitiser.

Can you do this:

VTR Out > Svideo (or Composite)+audio RedWhite > Camcorder In > DV out to Computer? ie using a camcorder in Passthrough mode (you may have to select that in the settings if the cc has the AV to DV conversion feature).

[tmmr]

Sorry, I removed that post because you covered most of it before I'd finished it.

It appears that you'll be forced down a analogue path or spend money on, for example, a head cleaning tape for the camcorders, Pinnacle 500/710 to convert DV losslessly from your VTRs to USB for capture by Scenalyzer, or an analogue digitiser.

Can you do this:

VTR Out > Svideo (or Composite)+audio RedWhite > Camcorder In > DV out to Computer? ie using a camcorder in Passthrough mode (you may have to select that in the settings if the cc has the AV to DV conversion feature).

Yes, I just tried using the camera in pass-through mode as you outline. It does pass through and Scenalyzer recognizes it because it thinks it's coming from the camera and not the VCR. Problem is, since it's analog out to the camera from the VCR, there's a lot of quality loss, it's no better than the ClearClick video which also uses analog out from the DV VCR and converts to mp4. Pure DV to the computer via firewire is somewhat better quality.

[Alwyn]

I wouldn't expect much loss using your camcorder as a passthrough unless there was an issue with the VTR. If the passthrough works, the camcorder is designed for it and it should be a good-quality conversion to DV. In other words, GIGO: (analogue) garbage in, (DV) garbage out.

From where I sit, it seems that you have dirty heads on the camcorders and questionable output on the VTRs (given no picture on the PC). I doubt whether an analogue digitiser is going to help because of the poor output from the VTR.

I would 1/try to clean the camcorder and VTR heads or 2/Buy a head-cleaning tape.

[tmmr]

I wouldn't expect much loss using your camcorder as a passthrough unless there was an issue with the VTR. If the passthrough works, the camcorder is designed for it and it should be a good-quality conversion to DV. In other words, GIGO: (analogue) garbage in, (DV) garbage out.

From where I sit, it seems that you have dirty heads on the camcorders and questionable output on the VTRs (given no picture on the PC). I doubt whether an analogue digitiser is going to help because of the poor output from the VTR.

I would 1/try to clean the camcorder and VTR heads or 2/Buy a head-cleaning tape.

I had a professional clean the heads on the camcorder when it went bad, didn't improve anything. He said it's either the heads or drum gone bad, and no parts available to repair. The passthrough works but because it's analog in to the camcorder, there's loss there compared to firewire direct to Scenalyzer.

The output quality from the DV VCR's is great when outputting to a TV screen. So I'm thinking that's not the problem. If those heads were dirty at least you would get SOME output to Scenalyzer, not nothing at all. I wonder if anyone else is able to output to Scenalyzer or winDV from a Panasonic DV VCR, instead of from a camcorder.

Another consideration that may lead me to use the camcorder as a pass-through to Scenalyzer, is that Scenalyzer converts the mini-DV output to avi, while ClearClick's converter converts it to mp 4. One minute of avi video from Scenalyzer uses around 215 MB, while one minute converted to mp4 uses around 30 MB.

[Alwyn]

The output quality from the DV VCR's is great when outputting to a TV screen. So I'm thinking that's not the problem.

Not necessarily. You'd be using the analogue output connections to the TV (S-Video or Composite). The problem is with Scenalyzer reading the DV output from the VTR.

Scenalyzer converts the mini-DV output to avi

I'm nitpicking, but that's not strictly correct, Scenalyzer is merely transferring the digital video stream from the VTR to your computer using a DV AVI codec. The DV bitrate is, as you have found, always 13GB per hour, or 215MB per minute.

The Clearclick, on the other hand, is encoding the DV stream into MP4 but at a lower bitrate than one would need to maintain the DV quality.

I had a professional clean the heads on the camcorder when it went bad

The output quality from the DV VCR's is great when outputting to a TV screen

I must have missed that info. Disregard my latest comments on cleaning the heads.

As I see it now, your options are:

-Try the other type of Firewire driver because there seems to be a partial incompatibility with your VTRs and the current driver ie camcorder control is OK but no picture.
-Get another DV-Out camcorder;
-Use a Pinnacle 500 or 710 USB to transfer DV via USB to your PC since you say the DV output from the VTRs to a camcorder is OK
-Use an Analogue workflow (S-Video or Composite) to get the video off your VTR into your PC, which will require getting a USB digitiser.

[tmmr]

[QUOTE=


As I see it now, your options are:

-Try the other type of Firewire driver because there seems to be a partial incompatibility with your VTRs and the current driver ie camcorder control is OK but no picture.
-Get another DV-Out camcorder;
-Use a Pinnacle 500 or 710 USB to transfer DV via USB to your PC since you say the DV output from the VTRs to a camcorder is OK
-Use an Analogue workflow (S-Video or Composite) to get the video off your VTR into your PC, which will require getting a USB digitiser.[/QUOTE]

So the Pinnacle 500/710 USB can transfer DV into the Scenalyzer program? Would that be analog out from the DV VCR, or digital? I think the only digital out from the VTR's I have is via the firewire DV socket.

[Alwyn]

Apologies, golf called.

So the Pinnacle 500/710 USB can transfer DV into the Scenalyzer program?

Yes.

Would that be analog out from the DV VCR

No.

I think the only digital out from the VTR's I have is via the firewire DV socket.

Correct. You send DV from the VTR to the 710USB, which sends that DV stream over USB to Scenalyzer. It is a unique feature I have not found on any other gadget. In this instance, I'm using Win 10 with the Legacy Firewire driver. Unfortunately, the analogue capture function of the 710USB is very unreliable.

This should work because, as far as I can tell, the DV Out from the VTRs works OK (good pic on camcorder's screen).

Dellsham has a 500USB which, based on previous posts of them, also has the DV passthrough feature.

[tmmr]

Apologies, golf called.

So the Pinnacle 500/710 USB can transfer DV into the Scenalyzer program?

Yes.

Would that be analog out from the DV VCR

No.

I think the only digital out from the VTR's I have is via the firewire DV socket.

Correct. You send DV from the VTR to the 710USB, which sends that DV stream over USB to Scenalyzer. It is a unique feature I have not found on any other gadget. In this instance, I'm using Win 10 with the Legacy Firewire driver. Unfortunately, the analogue capture function of the 710USB is very unreliable.

This should work because, as far as I can tell, the DV Out from the VTRs works OK (good pic on camcorder's screen).

Dellsham has a 500USB which, based on previous posts of them, also has the DV passthrough feature.

Thanks! Any idea where I can get the 710USB? Searched around and couldn't find a source.

[BW37]

tmmr:

From this old review:

"If you plan on hooking up the AG-DV1000P to your editing computer for use as a source deck, there are some important steps you’ll need to take. First, you will need to use the on-screen menu to set the deck back to its factory defaults (Menu-Option Initial-Set). Then, slide the Input Select switch to “DV,” and the Local/Remote switch to “Remote.

Not only are these instructions omitted from the AG-DV1000P manual, but the Local/Remote switch instructions indicate that the switch is used only if the optional AG-A11 wired remote controller is attached. Once you have completed these steps, you should be able to use machine control from your editing computer to capture digital video directly from the AG-DV1000P."

Worth a try before you give up on your DV1000?

BW

PS: I've been lurking here on VH, reading random threads trying to get up to speed but this gave me a reason to register. Hope it helps!

[dellsam34]

Thanks BW37 for this refresh, this is what I was looking for but could not find it anywhere, I though it was in the manual but to my surprise it is nowhere mentioned in there.

[tmmr]

tmmr:

From this old review:

"If you plan on hooking up the AG-DV1000P to your editing computer for use as a source deck, there are some important steps you’ll need to take. First, you will need to use the on-screen menu to set the deck back to its factory defaults (Menu-Option Initial-Set). Then, slide the Input Select switch to “DV,” and the Local/Remote switch to “Remote.

Not only are these instructions omitted from the AG-DV1000P manual, but the Local/Remote switch instructions indicate that the switch is used only if the optional AG-A11 wired remote controller is attached. Once you have completed these steps, you should be able to use machine control from your editing computer to capture digital video directly from the AG-DV1000P."

Worth a try before you give up on your DV1000?

BW

PS: I've been lurking here on VH, reading random threads trying to get up to speed but this gave me a reason to register. Hope it helps!

I will try that.

[tmmr]

tmmr:

From this old review:

"If you plan on hooking up the AG-DV1000P to your editing computer for use as a source deck, there are some important steps you’ll need to take. First, you will need to use the on-screen menu to set the deck back to its factory defaults (Menu-Option Initial-Set). Then, slide the Input Select switch to “DV,” and the Local/Remote switch to “Remote.

Not only are these instructions omitted from the AG-DV1000P manual, but the Local/Remote switch instructions indicate that the switch is used only if the optional AG-A11 wired remote controller is attached. Once you have completed these steps, you should be able to use machine control from your editing computer to capture digital video directly from the AG-DV1000P."

Worth a try before you give up on your DV1000?

BW

PS: I've been lurking here on VH, reading random threads trying to get up to speed but this gave me a reason to register. Hope it helps!

I will try that.

Well it was worth a try, but didn't work. Setting to factory default didn't make any difference in Scenalyzer or winDV.

[BW37]

Bummer. It’s so odd that the required setting process isn’t even in the manual, especially since it’s not intuitive at all: setting input to DV and the Local/Remote switch to Remote. I don’t know why the reset was required…

I was worried it might not work since you had some control from the PC but no video data passing.

BW

[Alwyn]

@tmmr

Here's a 710-USB:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/394891877123?hash=item5bf163db03:g:THEAAOSwZLRlC5ef&amdata=en...Bk9SR_Dt0bzuYg

There's a 500-USB below it.

Also, an interesting post here re using the 500-USB:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/396471-help-with-capturing-dv-footage-from-sony-ha...am#post2710335

I haven't had to do that though; I got my driver from here (Win 7 64 bit):
http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFiles/Hardware_Installer/readmeHW10.htm?utm_source=c...0f005a0a1c0e10