Verizon FiOS HDMI Capture/EDID Manager issue - Audio Ouput

[NikoLiberty]

For the longest time, I've been unable to capture 5.1 audio via my Verizon FiOS setup (Arris VMS1100). Recently, I did some research and thought that I had it figured out after I had heard that an EDID Manager was probably what I was in need of. So, I connected my cable box to the EDID manager, the EDID manager to an Audio Extractor that also strips HDCP lockout and that to my Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K.

Now, with other devices, the 5.1 audio passes through just fine. However, with this setup, I either get the typical "static" noise through 2 channels or I just get a normal Stereo PCM output. Neither of which I want.

Here are some images to put what I'm talking about in context:


[Attachment 68096 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 68097 - Click to enlarge]

And here is the Mediainfo of my test capture:

General
Complete name : E:\2022-12-11 13-03-37.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 907 MiB
Duration : 1 min 30 s
Overall bit rate : 83.8 Mb/s
Writing application : Lavf59.16.100

Video
ID : 0
Format : M8Y0
Codec ID : M8Y0
Duration : 16 s 283 ms
Bit rate : 463 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.725
Stream size : 899 MiB (99%)

Audio #1
ID : 1-1 / 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Format settings : Little
Muxing mode : Multiple / SMPTE ST 337
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.15 MiB (0%)
Service kind : Complete Main

Audio #2
ID : 1-3
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Muxing mode : Multiple
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.38 MiB (0%)

Audio #3
ID : 1-4
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Muxing mode : Multiple
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.38 MiB (0%)

Audio #4
ID : 1-5
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Muxing mode : Multiple
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.38 MiB (0%)

Audio #5
ID : 1-6
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Muxing mode : Multiple
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 1 min 30 s
Source duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 8.31 MiB (1%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 23 ms (1.38 video frame)

Is there anything I can do to get the 5.1 audio to pass through or would I be better served upgrading to a newer cable box?

Thank you for any help offered.

[october262]

For the longest time, I've been unable to capture 5.1 audio via my Verizon FiOS setup (Arris VMS1100). Recently, I did some research and thought that I had it figured out after I had heard that an EDID Manager was probably what I was in need of. So, I connected my cable box to the EDID manager, the EDID manager to an Audio Extractor that also strips HDCP lockout and that to my Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K.

Now, with other devices, the 5.1 audio passes through just fine. However, with this setup, I either get the typical "static" noise through 2 channels or I just get a normal Stereo PCM output. Neither of which I want.

Here are some images to put what I'm talking about in context:


[Attachment 68096 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 68097 - Click to enlarge]

And here is the Mediainfo of my test capture:

General
Complete name : E:\2022-12-11 13-03-37.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 907 MiB
Duration : 1 min 30 s
Overall bit rate : 83.8 Mb/s
Writing application : Lavf59.16.100

Video
ID : 0
Format : M8Y0
Codec ID : M8Y0
Duration : 16 s 283 ms
Bit rate : 463 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.725
Stream size : 899 MiB (99%)

Audio #1
ID : 1-1 / 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Format settings : Little
Muxing mode : Multiple / SMPTE ST 337
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.15 MiB (0%)
Service kind : Complete Main

Audio #2
ID : 1-3
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Muxing mode : Multiple
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.38 MiB (0%)

Audio #3
ID : 1-4
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Muxing mode : Multiple
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.38 MiB (0%)

Audio #4
ID : 1-5
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Muxing mode : Multiple
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.38 MiB (0%)

Audio #5
ID : 1-6
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Muxing mode : Multiple
Codec ID : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 1 min 30 s
Source duration : 15 s 125 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 8.31 MiB (1%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 23 ms (1.38 video frame)

Is there anything I can do to get the 5.1 audio to pass through or would I be better served upgrading to a newer cable box?

Thank you for any help offered.

have you tried reading the PDF Manual ?? - https://www.verizon.com/supportresources/content/dam/verizon/support/consumer/document...s_manual-s.pdf

[usually_quiet]

US cable boxes only provide 2 choices for audio output via HDMI, either 2-channel LPCM or 5.1-channel AC3 audio. I don't think there is a way to force them to output 6-channel LPCM instead of 5.1-channel AC3.

Unfortunately, although most HDMI capture devices and their software have no problem capturing 2-channel LPCM, they can't capture AC3 or any other form of compressed audio correctly. They capture it as if it were 2-channel LPCM, hence the static. If the card and capture software are capable of recording the "2-channel LPCM" with bit-perfect accuracy in 24-bit format, the recording can be converted back to 5.1 channel AC3 via specific audio software.

I haven't worked with it myself but I know of a couple of threads where this was discussed:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/392907-Is-there-a-lossless-video-capture-card-that...ures-5-1-audio
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/367983-Capture-5-1-DD-with-spdif-input#post2353534

[NikoLiberty]

The thing is though, I know for a fact that Comcast/Xfinity can output direct 5.1 sound without issue or the need for an EDID manager.

But I believe you're correct, the EDID manager did its job, since recording the footage with Blackmagic Media Express as opposed to OBS enabled me to decrypt the audio. And the actual bitrate is pretty generous!

It would just be loads more convenient if it was like Comcast.

[usually_quiet]

The thing is though, I know for a fact that Comcast/Xfinity can output direct 5.1 sound without issue or the need for an EDID manager.

But I believe you're correct, the EDID manager did its job, since recording the footage with Blackmagic Media Express as opposed to OBS enabled me to decrypt the audio. And the actual bitrate is pretty generous!

It would just be loads more convenient if it was like Comcast.

Maybe the new X1 boxes like the one I have now provide different audio options than the previous generation of Comcast boxes they replaced.

Two-channel LPCM and 5.1-channel AC3 were the only digital audio choices available to me when I had an older Comcast Pace RNG-110 box. I was able to record AC3 as AC3 from that older cable box's HDMI using Windows Media Center and a Hauppauge Colossus. (The original Hauppauge Colossus and some of the Hauppage HD-PVR 2 models have the ability to record the original AC3 audio delivered over HDMI.)

[Vidd]

Comcast legacy DVR boxes have firewire. It is super easy to capture the raw transport stream with CapDVHS. So much better than capturing via HDMI. You just need a 32-bit XP or 7 machine since the DVR drivers are 32-bit only.

[usually_quiet]

Comcast legacy DVR boxes have firewire. It is super easy to capture the raw transport stream with CapDVHS. So much better than capturing via HDMI. You just need a 32-bit XP or 7 machine since the DVR drivers are 32-bit only.

The Pace RNG-110 box that Comcast supplied at one time has a Firewire port. For a brief time, I was able to capture the stream from my local broadcast channels from that box's firewire connection but never cable-only channels. After the FCC dropped the requirement for a working Firewire connection, Comcast completely disabled Firewire on my box. Newer equipment doesn't have a Firewire port.

So, I must ask have you tried using Firewire recently? Maybe that still works on the very old Motorola boxes, but I never tried using it when I had one. I returned the Motorola boxes when Comcast sent out a notice stating that they would be incompatible with their system after a planned upgrade was in place.

I use a CableCARD tuner now to capture the broadcast stream. Only the very few channels in my plan that are flagged copy-never are unavailable to record.

[Vidd]

So, I must ask have you tried using Firewire recently? Maybe that still works on the very old Motorola boxes, but I never tried using it when I had one. I returned the Motorola boxes when Comcast sent out a notice stating that they would be incompatible with their system after a planned upgrade was in place.

I have a Motorola RNG200N, which is the "newest" legacy DVR.

I capture via firewire everyday. I use my PC as the DVR rather than the DVR hard drive in the cable box. This way I can save all my recordings. There is no quality loss, it is the raw HD H264 stream with AC3 2.0 or 5.1 depending on the channel. It works for all channels except premiums like HBO which are 5c flagged.

Firewire is also great because you can send commands to the DVR box like channel changes. I can create batch scripts to automate and schedule channel changes and recordings. Also, VLC player can connect to the DVR over firewire and you can watch TV on the computer.

[usually_quiet]

An HD Homerun Prime CableCARD tuner can tune up to 3 channels at the same time. The required Xfinity CableCARD costs the same to rent as a cable box. I record on a PC running Windows 10 64-bit. I use NextPVR, which can schedule recordings based on a program guide or via a timer. Guide data is provided by Schedules Direct, which charges $25 per year for a membership. There is no quality loss in the recordings. Of course, only channels marked copy-freely can be recorded and no on-demand content can be recorded.

Verizon also used to rent CableCARDs and perhaps they still do but I think they have fewer copy-freely channels now than they did at one time. As I recall, several years ago channels owned by Fox ceased to be copy-freely.

[Edit]It is possible that NikoLiberty may need to use a capture device to record and accept some quality loss because he is recording on-demand content or Verizon FIOS cable channels that are not marked copy-freely.