MAGIX analogue capture device problem on Win 10

[OldTech]

After a long discussion in the Newbie forum I decided (admittedly against advice) to try capturing my Video8 tapes with a MAGIX USB device and Vdub on Windows 10. I downloaded the latest drivers from the MAGIX site, connected the camcorder and started Vdub, working through the device and video setup menus as documented. No video preview appeared, just a black window in Vdub. At this point the tape was stationary and I had expected to see the idle blue screen on the video feed. So I started the tape and still no video preview. Quitting out of capture, I opened the target file to find it was not zero length. Hitting play, there was no video throughout the file but there was audio from the moment I had pressed play on the tape.

Here's a screen capture montage of my Vdub config:


[Attachment 68082 - Click to enlarge]

After that, I tried selecting Microsoft WDM Image Capture. That produced video but no audio.

The full system is:
Sony Handycam DCR-TRV120E (PAL)
MAGIX capture device model K0065
Windows 10 Home, build 19044.2251
running on AMD FX-8350 8-core 4GHz 8GB RAM

Am I missing something straightforward, or is the MAGIX driver just not doing its job?

[DB83]

The lack of the preview etc. may well be down to a Windows Security setting rather than a VDub one.

Read this:


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/manage-app-permissions-for-your-camera-in-...ion=Windows_10

[Xhumeka]

Have you tried an s-video connection (assuming your camcorder has one), just to see if that changes anything?

[Alwyn]

Instead of Overlay, try Preview (System).

Lordsmurf always recommends VDub 1.9.11 for capturing, not VDub 2. Down the page a bit:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-conversion/1727-virtualdub-filters-pre.html

In Australia, I'm using PAL_B or PAL_G.

You could also try AmarecTV.

I assume you have VideoEasy: does that produce a video image?

[DB83]

Apart from my earlier comment (which I read about in these hallowed pages) I have no experience with Win10 - and few would recc it due to its notoriety in 'killing' capture devices (again read here)

Both Overlay and Preview work on my Win7 system as does the VFW and DirectShow - actual capture only tested with DirectShow whereas for the OP in appears that only VFW works.


I do not see an audio setting (should typically be 'Capture Device')


The only advantage with Vdub2 are the ffmpeg-based codecs but I do not detect the OP using any.


I would also consider AmarecTV as an alternative capture program - less of a hassle to set up than Vdub

[Hunk91]

Just 2 dumb questions.
- Did your Magix card came with a capture software?
- If so, have you tried to preview the camcorder with the Magix capture software? do you see something?

[Alwyn]

Another thing to check: if using a switchable In/Out Scart plug on your VCR, make sure it is set to "Out".

[DB83]

True. But the OP is NOT using a VCR. (And he already had video recorded by one setting)

And as for s-video output, many of these Sony camcorders used a single RCA output that served both video and audio and a bespoke cable - that is certainly the case with mine.

[oln]

Apart from my earlier comment (which I read about in these hallowed pages) I have no experience with Win10 - and few would recc it due to its notoriety in 'killing' capture devices (again read here)

I use virtualdub for capture on an up to date win10 installation so that on it's own should work at least. Though, old virtualdub versions might have an issue due to some function being deprecated which was fixed in one of the virtualdub2, I think it was the stuff noted here: https://sourceforge.net/p/vdfiltermod/tickets/186/

I know some of the older variants of the magix and other cards based around similar chipsets had driver issues on win10 causing bluescreens but I presume the ones sold now has fixed that and/or changed hardware.

Second the suggestion of trying to see if the bundled software shows video to verify whether the issue is virtualdub or not.

[DB83]

Just 2 dumb questions.
- Did your Magix card came with a capture software?
- If so, have you tried to preview the camcorder with the Magix capture software? do you see something?

Not so dumb.


In my research in to this device it appears to come with software. And not the typical stuff that comes with other ROTM (Run Of The MILL incase you wonder). I have no clue what format this produces (and the said software could simply be a rebadged clone of the ROTM stuff). But it is still worth persuing.

[DB83]

I use virtualdub for capture on an up to date win10 installation so that on it's own should work at least...

Well I forget what capture device you use and I gather that not all are created equally especially when it comes down to driver support ('Latest Drivers' means zilch in my book)

[Alwyn]

True. But the OP is NOT using a VCR. (And he already had video recorded by one setting)

Arr, yes, well spotted.

For the floor, I have already mentioned the software, VideoEasy, which is the basic Magix NLE. I'm pretty sure it captures to MXV, a proprietary format. But that doesn't mean to say that the digitiser itself cannot capture to lossless AVI.

And as for s-video output, many of these Sony camcorders used a single RCA output that served both video and audio and a bespoke cable

GIYF.

I doubt a single RCA would produce video and audio.

[Xhumeka]

I doubt a single RCA would produce video and audio.

He probably was referring to the 3.5mm jack with break-out cable that has the RCA connectors. But most camcorders with that setup also have a separate s-video port also.

[OldTech]

This is a great forum - always responsive with loads of good advice. To answer the easy questions first:

Have you tried an s-video connection (assuming your camcorder has one), just to see if that changes anything?

Yes, I've tried both composite and S-Video with the same result.

Just 2 dumb questions.
- Did your Magix card came with a capture software?
- If so, have you tried to preview the camcorder with the Magix capture software? do you see something?

Yes, the device came bundled with 'Video Saver!', aka 'Rescue Your Videotapes' and it works fine with that software. That's not a surprise. There are other capture bundles that will work as a whole on Windows 10 (e.g. Pinnacle Studio with Dazzle) but you can't use the capture device (Dazzle) with anything else - at least, not on Windows 10. I guess the software has a proprietary interface with the hardware, not using system drivers. As mentioned elsewhere, Windows 10 is notorious for killing legacy drivers and the manufacturers just aren't invested in producing new compliant drivers. ANYHOO ... the bottom line is that the MAGIX software only captures in MPEG-2, whereas I want a lossless copy for archival and enhancement before going to a portable compression.

For the floor, I have already mentioned the software, VideoEasy, which is the basic Magix NLE. I'm pretty sure it captures to MXV, a proprietary format. But that doesn't mean to say that the digitiser itself cannot capture to lossless AVI.

Ah! Now that's interesting. I haven't looked at the MXV option. If VideoEasy really can capture either MXV or MPEG-2 from this device, it suggests that the digitiser doesn't have an embedded codec.

Another thing to check: if using a switchable In/Out Scart plug on your VCR, make sure it is set to "Out".

No SCART; I'm using direct RCA composite or S-Video for the video feed and RCA stereo for the sound.

And as for s-video output, many of these Sony camcorders used a single RCA output that served both video and audio and a bespoke cable - that is certainly the case with mine.

Luckily, this model has both the 4-pole jack outlet and S-Video. Incidentally, it also has DV out ... can that work from an analogue tape?

[DB83]

^^ Well many such camcorders can export analogue video as DV (internal conversion)

Now you come across another 'feature' of Win10 that 'kills' IEEE1394/firewire connections. Of course your PC requires such a port and legacy Win8 drivers. Many topics on here refer to this.


So what about my initial thought ?

[Xhumeka]

There are other capture bundles that will work as a whole on Windows 10 (e.g. Pinnacle Studio with Dazzle) but you can't use the capture device (Dazzle) with anything else - at least, not on Windows 10. I guess the software has a proprietary interface with the hardware, not using system drivers. As mentioned elsewhere, Windows 10 is notorious for killing legacy drivers and the manufacturers just aren't invested in producing new compliant drivers.

Just to clear up a couple things - I have tested the Dazzle under Windows 10 capturing with VirtualDub 1.9 - so it definitely works (just not well at all!!)

Now you come across another 'feature' of Win10 that 'kills' IEEE1394/firewire connections. Of course your PC requires such a port and legacy Win8 drivers. Many topics on here refer to this.

Again - first hand experience with Windows 10 and DV captures via PCIe card, no need for legacy drivers - was completely plug-and-play with Win 10

[DB83]

^^ Well there are 'Dazzles' as there are PCIe firewire cards. Yet all are not created equally. Fine that these work for you but you really should provide more info/links to the specific ones you have used and not be unspecific with your responses.

And if you care to read you will come across many a horror story.

[Xhumeka]

^^ Well there are 'Dazzles' as there are PCIe firewire cards. Yet all are not created equally. Fine that these work for you but you really should provide more info/links to the specific ones you have used and not be unspecific with your responses.

And if you care to read you will come across many a horror story.

There are equally as many "this works fine" stories in here "if you care to read" as you put it. Here is one of many posts (this one mine) stating exactly which PCIe card worked for me:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/407467-Vhs-capture-advice/page3#post2673119

[DB83]

Sorry, but I am a 'wicked' mood right now.

[OldTech]

^^ Well many such camcorders can export analogue video as DV (internal conversion)

Now you come across another 'feature' of Win10 that 'kills' IEEE1394/firewire connections. Of course your PC requires such a port and legacy Win8 drivers. Many topics on here refer to this.


So what about my initial thought ?

Yes, sorry. I'm on the laptop right now. I've read the article that you linked and I'll try that when I get back to my main rig. Also other angles that others have suggested.

[Hunk91]

This is a great forum - always responsive with loads of good advice. To answer the easy questions first:

Just 2 dumb questions.
- Did your Magix card came with a capture software?
- If so, have you tried to preview the camcorder with the Magix capture software? do you see something?

Yes, the device came bundled with 'Video Saver!', aka 'Rescue Your Videotapes' and it works fine with that software. That's not a surprise. There are other capture bundles that will work as a whole on Windows 10 (e.g. Pinnacle Studio with Dazzle) but you can't use the capture device (Dazzle) with anything else - at least, not on Windows 10. I guess the software has a proprietary interface with the hardware, not using system drivers. As mentioned elsewhere, Windows 10 is notorious for killing legacy drivers and the manufacturers just aren't invested in producing new compliant drivers. ANYHOO ... the bottom line is that the MAGIX software only captures in MPEG-2, whereas I want a lossless copy for archival and enhancement before going to a portable compression.

OK that's already a good thing, the capture card works and so is the camcorder.

I remember that with an old hauppauge tuner tv capture card I had to launch the hauppauge capture software first to initialize the driver, then I could capture via Virtualdub. But it was a long time ago with windows 98. Perhaps you should do the same.

You can also try to capture with VLC (not great to set but efficient, and also OBS but I wouldn't recommend this software for VHS capture)

Best regards

[Alwyn]

Stop going on about the firewire drivers. They may have been left out of Win 10 but they are super easy to install.

[DB83]

^^ Did someone get a served warm Fosters ?

These replies are not for you. They are intended for those who read their own topics to, hopefully, not have to search in a multitude of other topics should things like this not work for them. Same for our latest 'expert' who claims that a firewire card worked 'out of the box' under Win10.


And if you did not glean from the intended humour of the earlier reply then look up the original painting "And when did you last see your father ?" which I have known for more years that you have have probably had hot dinners.

[Xhumeka]

Same for our latest 'expert' who claims that a firewire card worked 'out of the box' under Win10.

Since when did I claim I'm an expert? And if you're calling me a liar, why not just say it straight out.

My Windows 10 is completely up-to-date, and I have automatic updates enabled. The card I linked DID work right out of the box, plug and play, no drivers required to be installed separately. The OP in the thread I linked above bought the same (or almost identical card) and had the exact same experience.

I've been working in the IT industry since the early 90s and I always try to clear up misinformation when I see it. You CLEARLY spew a lot of misinformation, so get ready for me to reply to a lot of your threads I guess.

[Leanoric]

Same for our latest 'expert' who claims that a firewire card worked 'out of the box' under Win10.

Since when did I claim I'm an expert? And if you're calling me a liar, why not just say it straight out.

My Windows 10 is completely up-to-date, and I have automatic updates enabled. The card I linked DID work right out of the box, plug and play, no drivers required to be installed separately. The OP in the thread I linked above bought the same (or almost identical card) and had the exact same experience.

I've been working in the IT industry since the early 90s and I always try to clear up misinformation when I see it. You CLEARLY spew a lot of misinformation, so get ready for me to reply to a lot of your threads I guess.

I did indeed buy a very similar card to the one that Xhumeka recommended. Like his, it worked straight out of the box with no drivers needing to be installed.

[OldTech]

Whoah! Guys, can I pull this back on thread?

The lack of the preview etc. may well be down to a Windows Security setting rather than a VDub one.

Read this:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/manage-app-permissions-for-your-camera-in-...ion=Windows_10

Investigated that. All permissions were set as required. VirtualDb2 was listed as one of the desktop applications (don't you hate "apps"?) with camera access.

Instead of Overlay, try Preview (System).

Lordsmurf always recommends VDub 1.9.11 for capturing, not VDub 2. Down the page a bit:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-conversion/1727-virtualdub-filters-pre.html

Useful steer, thanks. I've downloaded the package for future trials, but I don't need it right now because ...

I do not see an audio setting (should typically be 'Capture Device')

BINGO! (or 'House!' or 'Keno!', depending on your vernacular). Instead of 'Capture Device', the audio setting had defaulted to the 'MAGIX Video Capture 3', explicitly the same device as selected for video. Changing this to 'Capture Device' unlocked the video capture stream. Who'd have thought it? (Well, DB83, obviously) I guess the two capture streams were contending for the same output, rather than the audio stream connecting to the audio output.

So, now I can preview and capture video and audio. Now I only have to figure out deinterlacing, sound sync, dropped frames ... ... ... but that's all for another thread.

For now, thank you all (and play nicely).

[DB83]

Firstly, I am pleased that you have got this working. Now can I suggest that you persue codecs since, if I am not mistaken, that you are set as uncompressed and that is a sure waste of resources and,potentially, can lead to significantly dropped frames not withstanding HUGE file sizes.

Secondly, to others. Do, pretty please, show where I explicidly called anyone a liar. I simply echoed comments by others who also stated that Win10 does not support DV 'out of the box' or, if it did, was altered after certain updates. I have no way of knowing if MS made some changes or, indeed, the comments by others were confused. What I do know is, for some, DV only worked after the installation of legacy codecs as also reffered by others.


But to anyone who thinks to question all my responses here - and I do question the true motive of anyone who has been around since the 90's but has only been registered for a month or so - think again.

[Xhumeka]

Well, now you can "echo comments" from two of us who have had ZERO problems with Windows 10 and brand new PCIe firewire cards. But I'm sure you'll continue to cherry-pick random posts that state otherwise.

As for my motive - pull those spoons out of your nose a bit I think they may have damaged your brain causing paranoid delusions. What possible nefarious "motive" would I have? Do you think I'm a firewire card salesman or something??

[lollo]

pull those spoons out of your nose a bit I think they may have damaged your brain causing paranoid delusions