Hello all, new member here.

[640x480]

Hello, I'm new, but I'm old... I hope that makes sense. Anyway I found this forum and had to sign up because on my bucket list is to convert a big box of old analog tape footage I've accumulated over the years to digital format. I have vhs, 8mm, miniDV (yes, not analog, right?), etc. and the various units used way back in the day to record said footage. I was looking for a FAQ here that maybe explains the basic toolkit most folks use nowadays. I guess my first question is this: Is the Canopus 100 still a worthy box? I have a way to get my hands on one (an early production one, I believe from 2003?), and I'm noticing it mentioned a lot here, so in this year 2022, is it still a solid YES to use it to capture if you have the right hardware? Are there any competitors worthy?

My plan is to create a sort of turnkey setup with either an oldish mac or pc and a decent internal SSD so I can alleviate any storage speed bottlenecks. I see that there's windows free-ish software like ScLive so that's interesting. Is it a better bet if using Windows to use obsolete versions, like 7/8? Or is Win10/11 fine/improved? I can pretty much roll out whatever OS I need.

As for the camera/playback units themselves... they've been untouched for several years if not decades, are there gotchas to consider before popping tapes in? I wonder about things like the rubber wheels and such and if they need some TLC before proceeding or am I overthinking it?

Thanks much for all your help and shared wisdom.

[jwillis84]

vcr's - its generally recommended get a Panasonic and a JVC with built in TBC, if you can find them and can afford them.. which is a big question for many people

this lists most talked about is similar to this FCC list of years issued FCC certification; that does not mean the years they were released or sold, these are just the first years they were licensed for sale in the US

--------------------------

Made in Japan - metal top, metal base
AG-1960 year 1989
AG-1970 year 1992 - tbc
AG-1980 year 1995 - tbc
AG-2560 year 1998

Made in Malaysia - metal top, plastic base
HR-S3500U year 1998 -
HR-S4600U year 1999 -
HR-S7800U year 2000 - tbc
HR-S7900U year 2001 - tbc
SR-V10U__ year 2001 - tbc

Made in China - plastic top, plastic base
HR-S9911U year 2002 - tbc
HR-S5902U year 2003
SR-V101__ year 2004 - tbc

* beware JVC's baring "Dynamic Drums", do not acquire them, they all eventually fail and cannot be repaired
** dynamic drums were only useful for seamless fast forward and reverse or slow motion viewing without stripes
*** dynamic drums do not correct for normal playback at different SP/EP/SLP speeds
--------------------------

there are several other brands too.. mitsubishi, toshiba.. but you have to refer to other sites for a more detailed list of recommended vcrs

some recommend D-VHS recorders which are even more expensive, and rare.. but often have tbc's

the brand mixture of panasonic and jvc has to do with tracking EP or SLP tapes.. panasonic was "tuned" to better track EP/SLP tapes.. jvc was "tuned" to better track "SP" tapes

that list is a (sample) only.. there are hundreds of brands and models.. and conflicting opinions.. those are just what gets talked about the most

an ordinary person can get by with "what works" for them.. and then decide whether they want to invest in acquiring or borrowing or renting the others

all of the Canopus DV capture boxes were popular pre-1999, after 2000 boxes that captured direct to MPEG-2 became more popular, after 2010 boxes that captured direct to H.264 became more popular, after 2015 boxes that captured to H.265/HEVC started becoming more common place.. the versions are all about "Compressing" to save disc space.. or squeeze more on to a DVD or Blu-ray disk.

the days of DVD and Blu-ray are mostly over.. China bought or acquired and consolidated all the blank media plants to one in China and bought up all the media Brand names and applies the Brand names to mostly the same blank media to drive sales.. but the blank media for DVD and Blu-ray is on the decline

the DVD optical drives and Blu-ray optical drives are also being produced in fewer numbers.. most of the old major players like SONY and Panasonic have stopped making optical disc drives and apply their brand to the same drives from a couple of other manufacturers.. they are on the way out.. in a few years all optical media will be depending on only a few legacy drives until they stop making them altogether

so your choices come down to mostly considering how your going to watch what you convert.. for a lot of people that is from hard drives.. or stuff stored in the cloud.. in which the smaller the files the better.. both to save space.. and so you can duplicate them multiple times in reasonable times so that you have backups in case one copies storage drive fails and is unrecoverable

compressed files generally "give up" resolution and color information.. and don't look great when blown up on modern OLED TV's they look better when watching on cell phones or tablets.. or a browser window on a PC

as for capture devices; you can get a PC card or a USB attached box to do that for you.. and there are many.. mostly legacy now since standard definition TV stopped being broadcast in Feb 2009, since then most stuff does a poorer and poorer job of converting SDTV to digital

in about 2018 a project i worked on with the Isobuster software developer started making it possible to use many DVD Recorders that had hard drives, to capture and then copy the captured files from the DVD recorder hard drive to a PC.. that is probably the most efficient and easiest.. but it takes skills in removing the hard drive from DVD recorder to attach to a PC and running the Isobuster software to access and copy the recorded files to the PC

.. that is a broad.. summary of all of the options and situations

.. details aren't provided because details are often controversial and a matter of opinion

---

Professionals and "Artists"

Prefer to capture "Uncompressed" video and then use a Non-Linear Editor program like VideoRedo, Adobe Premiere or FinalCut to edit the captured video down by cutting out commercials or breaking up long captures into individual programs.. (and 'then') Compressing them to 'render' the final product that will be distributed for normal viewers

Most people who engage in this level of archival detail, will tell you don't throw out the VHS tapes after your done.. some newer technology might come along, or you might discover flaws in your capture later.. and want to do it again

It depends upon the material, but most will tell you if what your converting can be found online or on a DVD or Blu-ray at the store, do not bother.. its too much work

You can also contract out the work with "video conversion service providers" who will take your tapes and convert them into uncompressed or compressed digital files and then send you a link to download them from the cloud.. or hand you a physical drive with the digitized content

This can be a very effective choice if your not prepared to collect and learn all the skills necessary to convert video.. or if you don't have the time

One of the unspoken drags on this effort is "not being certain" what is on an unlabeled tape.. or unsure of what you actually want to convert.. people often think "do it all" and that can become expensive and time consuming; in any event.. sorting through your tapes and prioritizing should be the first thing you do, and labeling them.. even if only so they have unique labels to keep from getting them confused

In the film industry.. they have a method of "tape logging" which covers "logging tapes" or converting them.. and skimming or reviewing them later.. this is what most people think of when they skim through a video tape in a VCR or on a DVR to visually summarize whats on the tape.. unfortunately.. you have to get the tape from analog to digital to be able to non-linearly seek like that.. so its something to keep in mind

You asked about old VCRs that have set up for many years, the rubber parts do degrade and harden or crystalize.. or they turn to goo.. if you haven't been "exercising" your machine regularly.. then you may need to have it "exorcised" for problems its developed while setting on a shelf.. for that you need to find a reliable shop to verify everything is ok.. you can start with a sacrificial tape and try to "Exercise" and bring it back to health a little at a time.. but it may already be seized.. and you'll need a repair shop sooner or later so its good to start looking right away.

This "sounds" easier that its really become over the years..

---

"Perfectionists"

The regular group of forum visitors and posters will be "Perfectionists" or just plain "masochistic" who want the absolute "best" quality they can get and plan to Upscale and watch the video on Large Wide Screen modern OLED TVs.

Generally "we" are never satisfied.. and delve into obscure arcane black arts.. with rare.. and very hard to find and expensive equipment.

Names like "Blackmagic Designs", "Ensemble Designs", "Snell & Wilcox", "AJA" and others are trademarks of this guild.

These are tools of pain, and are not for the faint of heart.. your best to avert your eyes.. and watch the conversations unfold rather than participate.

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"Unicorn seekers"

Everyone is "New" to this at one time.

And they are often publicly shamed and told No, or that they are Wrong wrong wrong.

Its a common theme.

Go back in the years and decades of posts and watch how it happens.. before posting very much.. it will save you a lot of personal frustration. Or lurk for a while and watch it happen to others.

Its not just this forum.. its just the norm across many boards.

Most people eventually go silent.. or become shadows of their posting selves.

A "Unicorn seeker" is looking for a magic box.. that is cheap.. that no one has ever seen before.. and that will magically fix everything and do everything they want.. perfectly.

Newbies are often "Unicorn seekers"..

I think everyone has been one at one time or the other.

[sum_guy]

See this thread, this was my experience.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/404047-Vdub2-VHS-C-Capture-and-post-processing-advice-requested

[dellsam34]

If you already have the Canopus 100 and want to avoid going through the rabit hole and a lot of hair pulling just use it, you will get DV files with decent quality. Otherwise brace yourself for a nighmare of capturing via USB 2.0, This port is almost obsolete, it is suited for prephirals connection not raw lossless video, You might get away with a PCIe capture card if drivers are still available for such card, but I would not recommend USB 2.0 for capturing, Use USB 3.x whenever possible. but keep in mind some legacy capture devices don't work well with USB 3.x, Good luck.

[DB83]

TBH That was an odd statement.

Granted that usb 3 has higher transfer than usb 2 but I use usb 2 with no transfer issues. Any issues are typically not the transfer rate but other factors - system dependent - on the usb interface.

[dellsam34]

The issues are generally dropped frames, audio drift for long captures, black outs or blue screen just to name few. Some of those are player/tape/lack of TBC related, some are driver related, some are capture card related, But personally having moved away from USB 2.0 solved every problem I had, Your mileage may vary.

[640x480]

Thanks all so far for the replies, I appreciate it.

In my situation, nothing I have is meant to be anything other than personal video, using retail vid cameras sold way back then... so this is unlike trying to preserve the visual and audio fidelity of an early VHS of Star Wars, as an example. I'm also not considering optical media at all for storage or playback. I'll just store the files on external storage of whatever type.

So far I'm sensing a mild thumbs up for a Canopus, so it's not the bright jewel nowadays. Cool. And any thoughts about the OS? Just want to avoid an OS that will get in the way instead of be helpful for something like this.

And an additional concern... which may show more of my newb-ish side that I care to reveal: the few times I tried some VHS capture in years past, with some of those cheapie asian units sold on Amazon - those small units with a built-in LCD that capture to MPEG2 straight to an inserted SD card - I'm sure it's some kind of linux-on-chip deal - it would auto-record the video but if there was some rolling of the image (due I'm sure to tape age or it trying to adjust tracking) it would stop the recording... I assume that sort of problem will exist anytime I'm trying to do capture with any kind of setup - But what's the solution to trying to get it all captured, tracking errors and all, without sacrificing the initial fidelity of the capture? Is that when something like a TBC becomes important?

I'm a computer tech my whole professional life, and I know my way around hardware and such, but I've just never done a deep dive into video and the particular hardware required, hence my appearance here. Thanks again.

[640x480]

See this thread, this was my experience.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/404047-Vdub2-VHS-C-Capture-and-post-processing-advice-requested

Thanks for all that sumguy, I'll definitely be using that as a jumping point - you mention Win11 there I think, so that makes me think if I can get away with Win10 or Win8 perhaps I should.

[DB83]

If you have access to various OS I would settle for Win7 if you are going to use a Canopus. The reason being that later OS's are not very kind to DV (IEEE1394) transfer. Win10 should work but you would probably require legacy Win8 drivers.

Of course on the hardware front if your PC does not have a IEEE1394 port you will require an add-on card


Many on here will Poo Poo the idea of using a Canopus due to the crippled chroma sub-sampling of NTSC DV (PAL is fine). Of course for DV you have little choice although you would not require a Canopus just for that. And you can read on here of much better solutions for other SD/Analog formats

[640x480]

And you can read on here of much better solutions for other SD/Analog formats

Yes I'm seeing from sum_guy's thread, that Hauppauge dongle getting big thumbs up.

[DB83]

I probably read that thread when it was 'active'. I also use a Hauppauge USB-Live2

[640x480]

I probably read that thread when it was 'active'. I also use a Hauppauge USB-Live2

Yes, you chimed in a bit - it's not that old, just earlier this year.

No issues with Window 10/11 in your setup?

[dellsam34]

Many on here will Poo Poo the idea of using a Canopus due to the crippled chroma sub-sampling of NTSC DV (PAL is fine). Of course for DV you have little choice although you would not require a Canopus just for that. And you can read on here of much better solutions for other SD/Analog formats

I use to think that DV 4.1.1 subsampling is worse than 4:2:0 but it's not really true and here is why?

- NTSC DV samples the chroma vertically of every scan line indivdually including odd and even lines (480 lines of chroma), PAL samples chroma of every odd and even line with the same chroma value slashing the vertical chroma resolution in half (only 288 lines of chroma).
- NTSC DV samples the chroma horizontally at 1/4 the resolution (only 180 pixels of chroma horizontally), PAL samples the chroma horizontally at 1/2 the horizontal resolution, (only 360 pixels of chroma horizontally).

As you can see both have drawbacks when it comes to chroma resolution but actually NTSC reduces it when it is less needed, with less horizontal chroma bandwith it is not a big deal to capture it at 180 pixels when in fact it is about 40-50 pixels equivalent, While PAL halves it when needed the most, Vertically chroma bandwidth is rich, it is litterly equals the chroma resolution, halving it is not a wise decision.

Offcourse 4:4:4 is the ultimate but we know that's not the case with analog video formats converted to digital, there isn't enough chroma bandwidth recorded on analog tapes to begin with. Sony did what they had to do to fit the footage on a tape the size of match box which was the goal, NTSC has less vertical resolution and more frame count, PAL has more vertical resolution and less frame count, and they did a compromise between the two, Never the less as said DV was a digital tape format, it was never intended to be for converting analog video tapes to digital. But if that's the only choice I would say 4.1.1 is not that bad compared to 4:2:0.

[DB83]

No issues with Window 10/11 in your setup?

No issues since I never upgraded past Win7

[fooledagain]

You came to the right place. Lots of helpful people here.