Upscaling video

[robw1947]

Dear Forum members,

The last couple of weeks I have read mutch articles and reviews about upscaling a video.
I understand, that the best way is the software of the TV, so why upscaling.
Then second best is using software with enhanced AI (Topaz, DVDfab)
And alternatives ????.
At the website of Aiseesoft I see also AI.
In a article about upscaling, I read two methodes, with Videoproc Converter and with FFmpeg.
But the article ended with the remark:

Both methods that we applied here are all about stretching what is in this original video file, since we cannot add extra information.
So if the resolution difference before and after is huge, the image would look blurry.

I have tested some trial versions, Topaz and DVDfab are to heavy for my hardware (i5-3570k, GT710 videocard).
And yes, Aiseesoft was very fast comparative with Topaz and DVDfab.
And yes, also with other converter software I got after upscaling of my PAL files (720x576) 720p and 1080p files.
And with Properties -> Details I see 1280x720 and 1920x1080.
My doubt and so my question is, do I have realy upscaled files or is it streched as I have read in the remark of the article.

At this forum I have found much questions about upscaling (avisynth, and so on), but (free) software can do the job like Topaz and DVDfab?

AS you can see at my username, I am from 1947 and Dutch, so I hope my English is good enough.

[Quint]

"Upscaling" is modern, and everywhere they do (try) so, but it still doesn't work as intended and maybe never will.
To scale up is just to put the video into a (mostly bigger) scale. To achieve this you have to stretch in both dimensions. The larger you stretch, the more blurry it will become, because of information missing that simply is not there, to fill the gaps. There is no way around this, instead of "generating" these missing details somehow.
There are a lot of ways to let it look somehow better, some sharpening techniques, a. s. o., but 576p video will NEVER become HD. Since a few years they try to use A.I. to fill the gaps according to large picture databases. If done right this can improve the look of the final "upscaled" video, but the details generated by the A.I. will never be the details that really would belong to the original picture or the sight that had been shot, the details will in the end come from SIMILAR details of completely different pictures.
Meanwhile Topaz etc. try to also do other jobs like de-interlacing, as I said, sharpening, de-rainbowing etc., so if this would work really well it might be a reason to use it, but I always would prefer more "exact" software for these jobs. This is my opinion to the status quo, and I experimented a lot with A.I. software the last years.
Really good results you can achieve with cartoons/anime, but also this can be done very well without A.I.
My personal conclusion: Don't "upscale" at all, it's simply useless, try to improve the picture in other ways, which is throughout possible, according to circumstances.

[robw1947]

Quint, Thanks a lot, you confirm the remark, I read in the article.
Still, I try to understand what the software has done, so to speak.
In PAL I have 720 pixels for the width (I think).
What happens with this 720 pixels in the 1280x720 file?

I try to understand this also reading the info at https://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech3/theory-videoaspectratios.html

And yes, I have also another not solved problem with (what I think that it is) a kind of flickering in my video.
It's difficult to describe what I see, a kind of vibration.
In some programs there is the option De-Flicker, but all my tests did not improve my video, also not with de-noise, stabilize.

[VoodooFX]

Why do you need to upscale?

And yes, I have also another not solved problem with (what I think that it is) a kind of flickering in my video.
It's difficult to describe what I see, a kind of vibration.

Maybe it's so called 'shimmer', QTGMC plugin for Avisynth can deal with it.

[robw1947]

In the past, my son used a camcorder with mini DV tapes.
Capturing these tapes with Pinnacle -> 720x576 files -> editing -> DVD
Now he has a FullHD camcorder -> editing -> BR-dvd

And now he has also a big 4k TV.
So, my though was to upscale the PAL files to FullHD and then burn BR-dvd.

But indeed, in my tests the 108p files ware not impressive at all.

And as I write already, I am Dutch (75+), so after translation of shimmer, yes may be.
I don't know how to give some examples of my video with a length of several seconds and in low resolution.

I have 3 examples, 352x288 of 2 seconds with sizes: 256kb, 314kb and 398kb.

[jagabo]

In PAL I have 720 pixels for the width (I think).
What happens with this 720 pixels in the 1280x720 file?

If the video is 16:9 then the full 720x576 frame is enlarged to 1280x576. If the video is 4:3 then (assuming the software is keeping the aspect ratio) the frame is enlarged to 960x720 and black pillarbox bars are added to the left and right to fill out the 1280 pixel wide frame.

Exactly exactly how the video is "upscaled" depends on the algorithm used. Some examples:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403255-What-is-a-better-method-to-upscale-3D-images#post2632837

Which is "better" depends on your opinion and the properties of the source itself. The source in that video was "pixel art" from an old video game, screen captured from an emulator. The HQ4X method was developed specifically for that type of artwork. It delivers sharp, smooth edges with pixel art sources. But it doesn't work well for real world video. Lanczos looks terrible with pixel art but looks fairly good with real world video.

The best upscalers keep sharp edges without introducing aliasing artifacts and overshoot halos. They can't restore/create fine details if there's none in the source. Your video upscaled from a720x576 source will never look exactly like a true 3840x2160 BD+ source. There's no way software can ever know exactly what details are missing. The goal is to provide something that looks decent and convincing.

And even before you upscale you may need to "clean" your video first. Otherwise you just get bigger dirt.

Anything your TV can do can be done in software. The quality of the upscaling can vary with both. Can you do better with software? Probably. But do you have the time and inclination to learn how? And of course, the resulting file will be much larger if you upscale. Is the quality of your 4x larger file worth the increase in upscaling quality over just playing the original source on your TV? The answer to those questions vary from person to person, and TV to TV.

And yes, I have also another not solved problem with (what I think that it is) a kind of flickering in my video.
It's difficult to describe what I see, a kind of vibration.
In some programs there is the option De-Flicker, but all my tests did not improve my video, also not with de-noise, stabilize.

Probably deinterlacing "bob". But one needs to see the source and converted video to say for sure.

[Quint]

And even before you upscale you may need to "clean" your video first. Otherwise you just get bigger dirt.

I agree, one of the reasons why I would NOT upscale at all. If it's the medium BluRay you can also simply put SD (with PAL 720*576 pixels) on a BluRay medium. But as every BD player can read DVDs this would also be not necessary. The only reason in my humble opinion to upscale something could be if you love to experiment, one can learn a lot and have a lot of fun - even with 75.

[robw1947]

My captured AVI file : Scan type = Interlaced
My edited MP4 file : Scan Type = Progressive

[robw1947]

And I see that shimmer also in my captured video file.
I have tested / used a couple of free capture programs, Moviemaker, WinDV in W10.
I had to do that because my son found still some mini DV tapes in his shoe box!
Is it possible that the shimmer problem is caused by the capture program?

[VoodooFX]

Best would be if you could cut some short sample from that captured avi and upload it here or some file locker like - https://wetransfer.com
Do you know how to use Avisynth?

[robw1947]

NO!
I saw many questions at this forum after searching with Üpscaling"
In ome questions a saw avisynth as solution.
And then I found this website with google:
http://www.gyroshot.com/upscale1.htm
SD to HD with Avisynth

To complex for me!!

At my backup HD, I have video files captured with Pinnacle V9 and also these files are Interlaced.
And yes, also these files show me some shimmer, be may I have to accept this.

By the way, these video files are from a trip with my son in the USA (2012) : SF -> Las Vegas -> San Diego -> LA
All those canyons !!

[poisondeathray]

There are encoder GUI's that simply some of the operations in avisynth ,eg. megui , staxrip, hybrid. But you have to diagnose what the problem is first

It sounds like you're starting with PAL DV , interlaced (Some DV camcorders had progressive modes too)

The majority of TV's do a poor job of deinterlacing and upscaling. Similar to a bob deinterlace, and bicubic upscale. Both issues (deinterlacing, upscaling) contribute to aliasing (jaggy edges, stair stepping) and flicker .

High end TV's do a good job of deinterlacing and upscaling, and there is usually no reason to upscale . The top tier models use "AI" chips. High quality processing chips cost more money, which is why most TV's do a bad job

But what someone describes as "flicker" might be something else like "noise" . A sample video is worth 10,000 words.

[mrbass]

I use videomass with this custom preset

-c:v hevc -crf 28 -c:a libopus -b:a 32k -strict -2 -vf scale="-2:720"


it will upscale a video to 720p and most importantly maintain aspect ration the -2 part does that

[robw1947]

I did a attempt to upload some examples using wetransfer.com.
I have never done this and I did not understand the Dutch screen I saw.
There was a little screen with the following fields to fill in (translated):
+ Upload files or select a amp
- Email to
- Your e-mail
- Title
- Message

After selecting my map with examples, I got in another little screen the message : upload 3 files to this site? <Upload>

I suppose that I have first to fill-in the fields in that other little screen.
But Email to ??

In a little (short) manual I read:
Step 3: After that in Email to, enter the email address of a person you are sending the files.

[jagabo]

You can upload files up to 500 MB directly to these forums. Use the Upload Files button below the edit box:

[Attachment 63283 - Click to enlarge]

[robw1947]

In the attachments 3 files, 4 - 6 sec, 640x480, that shows what I mean with flickering or something like that.
But as I wrote before, I see this also in other captured files from DV mini tapes, so be may this is normal.

I have used the button Upload files, so I hope you can see now my examples.

About the use of the software Videomass, many questions about how to use, I open a new post for this item in case I find no answers.

[robw1947]

And forgotten to write, at my TV I see the same flickering, so it is not my hardware.
The examples are 460x480.

[poisondeathray]

Those samples have already been deinterlaced, with half the motion samples discarded (single rate deinterlacing)

I only looked at "Restaurant.mp4", but the "flicker" is from low quality deinterlacing



If you can, try uploading the original DV AVI samples

[robw1947]

This morning (for me) I did some research at DV mini tapes -> interlace.
I found a interesting article:
When interlaced video is watched on a progressive monitor without proper deinterlacing, it exhibits combing when there is movement between two fields of one frame.

So I did a test with Handbrake -> Filters -> Deinterlace -> Decomb -> Bob, but no results.

I want to close this post and thanks everyone for his help!

[jagabo]

As poisondeathray pointed out, the videos you uploaded have already been deinterlaced, poorly. That's the cause of the flicker and aliased edges. Good deinterlacing will result in much less flicker and smoother motion. But if those files are all you have the flickering can be alleviated to some extent with some filtering. For example, using QTGMC(InputType=2) in AviSynth...

[robw1947]

OK, my test with Handbrake was with the captured AVI file (interlaced).
I had expected to see a better result then what the output file of Handbrake shows me, still the same flickering / shimmer.

I choose Bob because of this remark in the post : Probably deinterlacing "bob".
But perhaps I have misunderstood this remark, reading English was and is still a little bit difficult for me.
I have no experience with AviSynth.

[poisondeathray]

OK, my test with Handbrake was with the captured AVI file (interlaced).
I had expected to see a better result then what the output file of Handbrake shows me, still the same flickering / shimmer.

I choose Bob because of this remark in the post : Probably deinterlacing "bob".
But perhaps I have misunderstood this remark, reading English was and is still a little bit difficult for me.
I have no experience with AviSynth.

The majority of TV's do a poor job of deinterlacing and upscaling. Similar to a bob deinterlace, and bicubic upscale. Both issues (deinterlacing, upscaling) contribute to aliasing (jaggy edges, stair stepping) and flicker .

That statement means "bob" contributed to the flicker. "bob" is one of the "bad" deinterlacing algorithms

You can access QTGMC in some GUI's like staxrip, hybrid , so you don't have to learn writing scripts (you can still learn later when you have time)


Another this has been poorly processed is you have letterboxed 640x480 (black bars on top and bottom). The active image area without the black bars is 640x360. The orginal PAL DV was 16:9 720x576 . It's supposed to be horizontally stretched to 16:9 on playback, not vertically resampled (downscaled) - so you've lost vertical resolution (576 vs. 360 lines) as well as temporal resolution (25p vs 50p when full motion samples are preserved)

[jagabo]

In Handbrake set Deinterlace to Yadif and Bob, then double the frame rate.

[robw1947]

After Enable the option QTGMC Medium I got a error.

[poisondeathray]

"Cannot load file"
Check that "plugins_JPSDR.dll" is present in that directory location


I do not understand the other part of the error message translation

Does "mislukt" mean "missing" ? Google translate says "failed"


I just downloaded StaxRip-v2.10.0-x64, and put in a random PAL DV-AVI file with QTGMC and it worked ok . But I have separate avisynth install, not sure if it's using that, or the portable version with staxrip

[robw1947]

An Initialisation routine of the dynamic link library has failed.

[Quint]

Too early windows version?

[robw1947]

W10Pro, H21H2

[robw1947]

Now I have tested StaxRip at my test PC (i5-3570k) with some samples and I got the same error when I enable the Field QTGMC option.
Error at line 839 and line 1044 in QTGMC.avsi.
Enabling the others options, then OK.

Before running StaxRip, I have also installed AviSynth.
Windows will not download v3.7.1 (virus detection ?), but 3.7.0 seems OK.

Also this morning I have read several posts about streching.
The more I read, the more I am being confused about all the detailed info of a video file.

May be it is better (for me) to close this post.