Why is Muxing necessary if I can just convert an MKV file to MP4?

[SilentPlanet]

I have ripped the video from a blu-ray disc onto my computer. Now I want to put it into the Power Director video editing program, which will take MP4 files. I've seen a couple of "step-by-step" lists of instructions about this and they both say I have to run the file through a muxing program on before I move on to the conversion process. But if I have a program that will convert MKV to MP4, why do I need muxing?

(I'm a newbie)

Thank you, to anyone who can help.

[ProWo]

Conversion degrades the quality, remux leaves the streams as the they are, with no quality loss.

[abolibibelot]

Normally converting MKV to MP4 involves and implies remuxing, so it seems redundant indeed.
Perhaps you could copy those step-by-step instructions exactly as you read them, so that someone may clarify them if they make sense, or confirm that they don't if they don't ? (Such guides could have been made by people barely less "newbies" than yourself, reading stuff here and there and barely understanding the gist of it but managing to make it work somehow, which is enough for some people to call themselves experts ; or it could be a poor translation of a technically correct but poorly formulated guide.)

[netmask56]

[QUOTE=SilentPlanet;2631516]I have ripped the video from a blu-ray disc onto my computer. Now I want to put it into the Power Director video editing program, which will take MP4 files. I've seen a couple of "step-by-step" lists of instructions about this and they both say I have to run the file through a muxing program on before I move on to the conversion process. But if I have a program that will convert MKV to MP4, why do I need muxing?

(I'm a newbie)

Thank you, to anyone who can help.[/Q}
You could simply use the free program AviDemux and set the codec to MP4 and save.

[SilentPlanet]

Maybe someone can answer this for me? Where is a good place to download Handbrake? (also, is Handbrake dangerous to my system?) I did download it on Handbrake's site, but it said I needed to download .NEW, which I did do, and I installed it, but still no luck. Handbrake still said I needed it.

Thank you so much for the answers

[SilentPlanet]

Thanks Abolibibelot. I generally get stuck through these steps. I've already ripped the video.

Extraction/Muxing/Splitting

Once you have the discs copied over to your hard drive, you need a way to extract the video and audio streams from the disc structure. These are the tools to do it.

PGCdemux – free – Windows – Somewhat antiquated, but still an excellent tool for those working with DVDs as their source. This application extracts elementary (video, audio, subtitle) streams from each clip on a DVD disc.

tsMuxer – free – Windows/Mac/Linux – A transport stream muxer/remuxer/demultiplexer.

mkvtoolnix – free – Windows/Mac/Linux – A set of tools to demux, split, mux, join and inspect MKV files. Previous versions had separate GUIs for each task, but for better or worse, the application is now in one massive GUI.



Codecs

To properly play/edit various formats on your machine, you need to have the appropriate codecs installed:

lagarith codec – free – Windows – A very common lossless codec used for editing on Windows platforms. Used for video streams in an AVI container.

k-lite – free – Windows – A bundled pack of audio/video codecs, directshow filters, and media players for your computer. Comes with AviSynth. NOTE: recent versions are bundled with ads and additional software, so be sure to pay attention during the installation process.



Audio Conversion

To fully take advantage of working with individual audio channels, editors often need to convert a single surround or stereo audio file to mono WAV files. There are plenty of handy tools no matter what format (e.g., AC3, WAV, DTS) or number of channels (e.g., 2.0, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1) you are working with.

beSweet – free – Windows – A great command line conversion tool. Has the ability to change the speed to accommodate frame rate changes and can output 6 mono WAV files from 5.1 AC3 tracks. NOTE: the recent version of the GUI removed this function, so you’ll need to track down one of the older GUIs (~v0.6).

Tranzcode – free – Windows – A nice simple tool for converting 5.1 DTS tracks to 6 mono WAV files.

eac3to – free – Windows – This really should be considered the end-all solution to audio conversion. The GUI works with codecs and apps on your system to do countless audio conversion tasks. Perhaps a bit too complicated for some people, but it is fairly straightforward to use. This is the best tool for converting DTS files greater than 5.1 to mono WAVs. However, you’ll need something like the Sonic Decoder Pack installed as well for 6.1 and 7.1 tracks.

audiomuxer – free – Windows – This tool has a variety of features, and is very useful for converting DTS tracks to mono WAVs. As a word of caution, check the position labeling of your output files, because in some of our tests, they were labeled wrong.

meGUI – free – Windows – Much, much more than an audio converter (see our notes in the video conversion section), meGUI is a great interface for your audio conversion needs.




It looks like I can handle the rest of it. It's all stuff that I can do in my editing program. But even the stuff above seems like more stuff than necessary.

[johns0]

You could simply use the free program AviDemux and set the codec to MP4 and save.

mp4 isn't a codec,its a container only which is used by many formats such as xvid,divx and avc.

[Alwyn]

Silent Planet, you're way-over thinking this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are getting an MKV from your rip.

If that is the case, and Power Director will not take that MKV for editing, all you need to do is use Avidemux, as suggested by Netmask, to convert the MKV to MP4. You will not be demuxing or muxing anything, nor do you need to.

Handbrake works well but will only be needed here if Power Director won't accept your MP4 (from Avidemux). You can get it from the Software section of Videohelp. You will need Microsoft Dot Net, but Handbrake will prompt you to do that. If HB is saying it's not installed, I'd just try installing Dot Net again. If Handbrake no longer provides you with the link to it, here it is:

https://dotnet.microsoft.com/download/dotnet-framework/net471

Click on the Download 4.7.1 Runtime button, then the EXE installer will download. Run it.

Then you should be able to get Handbrake going and convert your MKV into a useable MP4 for Power Director.

Sing out if you need help with any of the above.

[netmask56]

You could simply use the free program AviDemux and set the codec to MP4 and save.

mp4 isn't a codec,its a container only which is used by many formats such as xvid,divx and avc.

Naturally I meant set output format and use MKV muxer. Not sure the OP at this stage requires lessons rather than simple solutions.

[johns0]

I posted it just in case other people were reading it.

[abolibibelot]

@SilentPlanet
These instructions are a bit confusing indeed (although I don't see anything factually wrong), listing many tools doing many things but not telling precisely what is needed in what situation and in what order.

Handbrake : In your post the name was automatically converted into a link on VideoHelp's own download section, which is a safe place to download it, apart from the editor's website (which is linked on that same page). It is not harmful per se, but (unless it has changed since I last used it quite a long while ago) it will always re-compress the input video (only audio can be converted in “pass-through” mode, i.e. copied as-is with no extra compression), which is not desired if it can be avoided. You want as few [if that's grammatically correct – sounds weird] lossy conversion operations as possible in your editing / rendering workflow, so Handbrake is not the right tool for that particular task.

Avidemux : It does allow lossless remuxing between different containers, but gets criticisms for reliability issues or updates which break formerly working features. It can work very well for some tasks, but should probably not be the first choice for a basic conversion that will have to be performed repeatedly with expectations of set-and-forget flawless reliability. (And its CLI mode, which was already quite limited, has been stripped-down in recent versions, to the point of becoming practically useless.)

MeGUI : It's a GUI (graphic user interface) for a variety of command line tools, quite clunky and complicated to use, more versatile than Handbrake and with more control over the end result, but also meant for lossy compression of video, so I wouldn't suggest it for this.

Surprisingly not listed, ffmpeg can do all the required tasks, it's a time-proven highly versatile command line tool with a gazillion features and possible usages, but basic conversion can be done with basic scripts, and once a script is made and thoroughly tested, a simple double-click on it will run the corresponding task and process all corresponding files in the corresponding folder, reliably, with no need to launch a GUI software and tediously set each and every parameter (with a risk of making a mistake that you'll notice much later).
To convert all MKV files in a folder to MP4, provided that the video and audio formats are compatible with the MP4 container, it's as simple as :

FOR %%F in (*.mkv) DO ffmpeg -i "%%F" -c copy "%%~nF.mp4"

tsMuxer : Does lossless remuxing or demuxing to and from TS / M2TS, simple and reliable, could be useful but may not be what you need if your first conversion step produces MKV files and is the one thing that currently works well.

MKVToolNix : Reliable set of tools to deal with MKV files, but can not convert them into another container, so may not be useful for that specific task (although it would seem like extracting video and audio streams with mkvextract can be required before remuxing them as MP4 with mp4box — I asked about it here).

Lagarith : It's only one of many lossless video codecs, it happens to be among the most efficient, but it may not be the best suited for video editing (although I've used it to edit 1280x720 footage on a 2009 computer, with no particular hassle — I mean, no more hassle than anything else I tried at the time as every single step of that project was a hurdle — I mean, I had various trouble with it but not performance related as far as I could tell).
From this post by “poisondeathray” :
“Commonly used lossless compression options for windows (large filesizes, about 1/2 the size of uncompressed YV12) :
Lagarith, Huffyuv, UT video, FFV1.
Performance wise, UT video (fastest scrubbing in editors). Compression wise, FFV1 (but slow as molasses).”

Don't know about the other tools mentioned, especially when it comes to splitting X.1 audio ; ffmpeg might be able to do that with no need for extra tools, but eac3to gets mentioned regularly for that kind of task, there must be a reason.

Not sure the OP at this stage requires lessons rather than simple solutions.

Well, it's always useful to correct basic and common mistakes, if only for newbies reading the thread now or in the distant future (newbies who may very well be clever puppies according to Clifford Simak).

[usually_quiet]

@ SilentPlanet Although recent versions of PowerDirector accept MKV files as input, I am not sure that PowerDirector supports the importation of an MKV file containing VC-1 video or some of the types of audio that might be found on Blu-ray. So, it is possible that some MKV files might be rejected by PowerDirector.

Also, while MKV files support many types of video and audio, including probably everything permitted by Blu-ray, mp4 doesn't support nearly as many kinds of video and audio as MKV. Some of the types of video and audio that are found on Blu-ray discs (for example, VC-1 video and DTS audio) aren't compatible with mp4. So, the video and audio extracted from your Blu-ray may need to be converted for compatibility with mp4. Something to keep in mind, mp4 with AVC/H.264 video and AAC audio enjoys the best support among playback devices.

Fortunately, as has been pointed out, there are alternatives to using PowerDVD for converting an MKV originating from a Blu-ray disc to an MP4.

[SilentPlanet]

usually-quiet, (and everyone else),

I'm very, very grateful to you all for the time you've all taken to comment on my issue. But things are starting to get tangled up in my brain. You can see how there are many contradictions among the responses you've given. Or maybe it's all just reached that point that I can't understand it.

I really feel dumb. I was on track for a Ph.D. in literature; I presented papers all over the country and even published a couple (I quit the program right when the end was near because I had a sudden realization that I didn't want to be a college professor.) It just seems like I should be reasonably smart enough to get this together in my head.

I'm going to get as far as I can in this process, and when I get stuck, I'll post my problem on here, and maybe you friendly people could guide me from that point. Thanks all!

[SilentPlanet]

Abolibibelot,

Some of the problem is my fault. I meant to number them.

#1 was ripping, which I have a decent grip on, so I didn't list it.

#2 was Extraction/Muxing/Splitting (beneath that, it listed links to some tools for accomplishing this.)

#3 was Codecs (under that heading, there were two links: lagarith, and k-lite)

#4 was Audio Conversion (under which there were 5 different links)

The thing is, I'm just not familiar with any of these programs except a couple.

[usually_quiet]

usually-quiet, (and everyone else),

I'm very, very grateful to you all for the time you've all taken to comment on my issue. But things are starting to get tangled up in my brain. You can see how there are many contradictions among the responses you've given. Or maybe it's all just reached that point that I can't understand it.

I really feel dumb. I was on track for a Ph.D. in literature; I presented papers all over the country and even published a couple (I quit the program right when the end was near because I had a sudden realization that I didn't want to be a college professor.) It just seems like I should be reasonably smart enough to get this together in my head.

I'm going to get as far as I can in this process, and when I get stuck, I'll post my problem on here, and maybe you friendly people could guide me from that point. Thanks all!

There are a number of complicating factors that come into play when converting an MKV file containing Blu-ray compliant video and audio to an MP4 file, so it is understandable that you are feeling confused.

1. Blu-ray allows the following options for the video: MPEG-2 (not common), VC-1 (mostly used for older movies), or H.264 ...plus a number of different types of audio, LPCM (Mandatory), AC3/Dolby Digital (Mandatory), DTS (Mandatory), Dolby Digital Plus (Optional), DTS-HD High-Resolution Audio (Optional), Dolby TrueHD (Optional), DTS-HD Master Audio (Optional), and Dolby Atmos (Optional). The MKV container allows all of the above types of video and audio, plus many more.

2. According to the latest MP4 specification (at http://mp4ra.org/#/codecs), the MP4 container now supports far more video and audio formats than I thought. However, software and hardware devices that play mp4 files don't often support everything the current specification allows. I am still sure that the combination of H.264 video and AAC audio does have the widest support among devices and software that play MP4 files. This means that there is a good chance that the video and/or audio extracted from a Blu-ray will need to be converted to some other format for playability as an MP4.

3. Although Cyberlink PowerDVD allows the importation of audio and video in MKV files, it doesn't allow the importation of all of the types of audio and video formats that MKV files allow (or that Blu-ray allows). This means that it may be necessary to use other software instead of Cyberlink PowerDVD to convert some MKV files to MP4 files.

[codehound]

Good Lord. Just looked at the OP question and what this thread has morphed into...
[Attachment 60814 - Click to enlarge]

Hardware devices don't look at the Windowz file extension. Just the codec within the container.

[usually_quiet]

Hardware devices don't look at the Windowz file extension. Just the codec within the container.

That doesn't seem likely. I have owned a few Blu-ray players and TVs that play media files from a USB drive and their manuals specify both what file extensions are playable with the device, and what kinds of video and audio are playable inside those types of files.

[Edit] For example, this is my Sony UBP-X700 UHD Blu-ray player's chart listing playable container file types and the allowable contents for them.

[Attachment 60820 - Click to enlarge]

[SilentPlanet]

Usually_quiet, Alwyn, (and anyone else who would like to help a poor schmuck),

I'm about to start my project. I'm using Cyberlink Power Director. The video is a lengthy rip, but if it all comes through ok, it will be MKV. What audio stream should I choose? I think my receiver runs Dolby Digital. I use a 5.1 setup I have 7 speakers, but I haven't installed them yet. When the whole ripping process is done. what do I need to do next? Muxing? Demuxing? converting? Or Just put the file on Power Directer and start editing (because I believe it does take MKV.

These are the file format options, and listed on Amazon.

Import
Video
2D Video: MVC (MTS), MOD, MOV (H.264), Dual-Stream AVI, MPEG-1, FLV (H.264), MPEG-2, MKV (multiple audio streams), MPEG-4 AVC (H.264), 3GPP2, MP4 (XAVC-S)*, AVCHD (M2T, MTS), TOD, AVI, VOB, DAT, WMV, DivX**, WMV-HD, DV-AVI, WTV in H.264/MPEG2 (multiple video and audio streams), DVR-MS, DSLR video clip in H.264 (8bit) format with LPCM audio, H.265/HEVC in 8bit /10 bitNEW (MP4/MKV/M2TS)*
3D Video: Dual-stream AVI, MVC*, Side-by-Side Video*, Over/Under Video*
360° Video: 360° equirectangular projection video format*.
Image
2D Image: BMP, GIF, Animated-GIF, JPEG, PNG, TIFF
3D Image: JPS*, MPO*
Raw Image: CyberLink PowerDirector also supports the import of the following camera RAW image formats, which are then converted to JPEG once imported: ARW (SONY), CR2 (Canon), DNG (Ricoh), ERF (Epson), KDC (Kodak), MRW (Konica Minolta), NEF (Nikon), NRW (Nikon), ORF (OLYMPUS), PEF (Pentax), RAF (Fujifilm), RW2 (Panasonic), SR2 (SONY), SRF (SONY).
360° Photo: 360° equirectangular projection photo format*
Audio
AAC, FLAC, ALAC, WMA, WAV, M4A, MP3, OGG

CLUTNEW
3DL, MGA, M3D, CUBE, CSP, CMS, RV3DLUT, VF

Export
Video
2D Video: 3GPP2, AVI, MPEG-2, H.264 AVC, Windows Media Video (WMV), MPEG-4, Matroska (MKV), XAVC-S(MP4)*, H.265/HEVC in 8 bit (MP4/MKV/M2TS)*
3D Video: Windows Media Video (WMV)*, MPEG-4*, MPEG-2*, H.264 AVC*, Matroska (MKV)*
Audio
WMA, WAV, M4A



Note:

* Optional feature in CyberLink PowerDirector. Check the version table on our web site for detailed versioning information.
** To enable DivX, please download the Free DivX Plus from here. Available on Windows 32bit only.
*** For a 360° video project, you can produce the project into a H.264 MP4 video file with a video resolution up to 4K resolution, as well as into a WMA, WAV or M4A (AAC) audio file. see less

[usually_quiet]

Usually_quiet, Alwyn, (and anyone else who would like to help a poor schmuck),

I'm about to start my project. I'm using Cyberlink Power Director. The video is a lengthy rip, but if it all comes through ok, it will be MKV. What audio stream should I choose? I think my receiver runs Dolby Digital. I use a 5.1 setup I have 7 speakers, but I haven't installed them yet. When the whole ripping process is done. what do I need to do next? Muxing? Demuxing? converting? Or Just put the file on Power Directer and start editing (because I believe it does take MKV.

These are the file format options, and listed on Amazon.

Import
Video
2D Video: MVC (MTS), MOD, MOV (H.264), Dual-Stream AVI, MPEG-1, FLV (H.264), MPEG-2, MKV (multiple audio streams), MPEG-4 AVC (H.264), 3GPP2, MP4 (XAVC-S)*, AVCHD (M2T, MTS), TOD, AVI, VOB, DAT, WMV, DivX**, WMV-HD, DV-AVI, WTV in H.264/MPEG2 (multiple video and audio streams), DVR-MS, DSLR video clip in H.264 (8bit) format with LPCM audio, H.265/HEVC in 8bit /10 bitNEW (MP4/MKV/M2TS)*
3D Video: Dual-stream AVI, MVC*, Side-by-Side Video*, Over/Under Video*
360° Video: 360° equirectangular projection video format*.
Image
2D Image: BMP, GIF, Animated-GIF, JPEG, PNG, TIFF
3D Image: JPS*, MPO*
Raw Image: CyberLink PowerDirector also supports the import of the following camera RAW image formats, which are then converted to JPEG once imported: ARW (SONY), CR2 (Canon), DNG (Ricoh), ERF (Epson), KDC (Kodak), MRW (Konica Minolta), NEF (Nikon), NRW (Nikon), ORF (OLYMPUS), PEF (Pentax), RAF (Fujifilm), RW2 (Panasonic), SR2 (SONY), SRF (SONY).
360° Photo: 360° equirectangular projection photo format*
Audio
AAC, FLAC, ALAC, WMA, WAV, M4A, MP3, OGG

CLUTNEW
3DL, MGA, M3D, CUBE, CSP, CMS, RV3DLUT, VF

Export
Video
2D Video: 3GPP2, AVI, MPEG-2, H.264 AVC, Windows Media Video (WMV), MPEG-4, Matroska (MKV), XAVC-S(MP4)*, H.265/HEVC in 8 bit (MP4/MKV/M2TS)*
3D Video: Windows Media Video (WMV)*, MPEG-4*, MPEG-2*, H.264 AVC*, Matroska (MKV)*
Audio
WMA, WAV, M4A



Note:

* Optional feature in CyberLink PowerDirector. Check the version table on our web site for detailed versioning information.
** To enable DivX, please download the Free DivX Plus from here. Available on Windows 32bit only.
*** For a 360° video project, you can produce the project into a H.264 MP4 video file with a video resolution up to 4K resolution, as well as into a WMA, WAV or M4A (AAC) audio file. see less

If PowerDVD can't import your MKV directly, you can demux the MKV to extract the main movie and the audio you want as separate files with gMKVExtractGUI, a GUI for MKVExtract. You'll need to install both gMKVExtractGUI and MKVToolNix. (MKVExtract is part of MKVToolNix.)

The type of video found on most Blu-ray disks, H.264 (also called AVC), can be imported into PowerDirector. MPEG-2 video is uncommon on commercial Blu-ray but PowerDirector can also import that. VC-1, which was used for some early Blu-ray releases, isn't on the list of video formats that PowerDirector can import. If your MKV contains VC-1 video it will have to be converted to something else for input, preferably H.264, especially if you want an mp4 for output. ... but let's not worry about that unless you find your movie uses it.

The 5.1 channel Dolby Digital (also called AC3) audio found on Blu-ray disks can be imported into PowerDirector and exported from PowerDirector. 7.1 channel audio may be provided by other Blu-ray audio formats, including LPCM/WAV. PowerDirector can import WAV files but I can't tell from the specs if PowerDirector can import 7.1 channel WAV files. I don't see anything in the specs indicating that PowerDirector supports exporting audio files with more than 5.1 channels.

As I told you in another post, MP4 files should be H.264 video with AAC audio for the widest compatibility. PowerDirector can export MP4 files with H.264/AVC video and AAC Stereo/5.1 audio. However, I think I have run into some devices that only support playing MP4 with AAC stereo audio.

[Edit]I looked at the specs for PowerDirector again at Cyberlink's website and saw that I had overlooked something. Further down the page, PowerDirector's specs say it can export AAC audio in either stereo or 5.1 channel format but only exports Dolby Digital audio in stereo format.

[Alwyn]

@Silentplanet, we need to see what your rip is made up of. After you have it, install Mediainfo and open your ripped file in it.

Go to View>Text, then copy all that text and paste it here. We can then see the video and audio details and go from there.

[SilentPlanet]

Alwyn, I'll take care of that tomorrow. Good news though. I've converted my files using MKV and have imported them into my Cyberlink Power Director. I know that, around here, saying something like that is like a child being proud of making his first poopie, but I think I'll be ok with the editing. After that I may need help with the further converting and what now. I think you are the one who said I was over-thinking the whole thing. I hope that's the case but I'm concerned about the audio and the picture quality when I burn the file.

[Alwyn]

Silent Planet that is good news. In that case, Mediainfo not required. The main thing is Power Director has accepted it. You'll have no problem with export quality; just keep that bitrate nice and high when exporting.

Are you actually going to do any editing of the movie because if not and you just want an MP4, AviDemux should do that without incurring any quality loss (the file size will be the same). Ignore the "demux" in it's name!

[abolibibelot]

Ignore the "demux" in it's name!

And ignore "Avi" too...

[Alwyn]

And ignore "Avi" too...