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  1. Member
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    Hello,

    I want to improve some VHS video but i found something i never see it before
    so my question is: What is this problem and how to fix it ?
    Look at the top of the video also there is a little in bottom too.




    Regards,
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  2. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    The artifact at the top is called "flagging" or "tearing" and at the bottom that's "head-switching noise". Neither can be fixed in software, if that's your goal.

    Brights are also clipped.
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  3. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Try a different vcr,some are really crappy for capturing and displaying.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  4. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    A TBC should be able to fix the problem at the top. Head switching at the bottom can't really be fixed.
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  5. correct term is "skew error" (aka flagging) it seems:
    http://avaa.bavc.org/artifactatlas/index.php/Flagging
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  6. the head switching noise is easily fixed in post. it's called cropping. I would get used to using it because few things look worse imo than VHS captures that didn't crop it. As for the top of the image, given that only the top 20 or so pixels are affected, you could easily crop those as well if you don't want to invest in the specialized hardware needed to eliminate that from the capture process. I would also crop the left and right of the image (2 or 4 pixels should suffice) to clean up those borders as well.
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    With the head switch noise, I used to crop it, now (for important transfers) adjust it out of the frame via the internal potentiometer. In fact I have extended the PCB contacts and made up a proper user control outside the equipment so now I can capture the complete frame with no switch noise at all. This does not work for dubbed VHS tapes though, only original first generation recordings.
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  8. Member
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    Thanks for the help

    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    A TBC should be able to fix the problem at the top. Head switching at the bottom can't really be fixed.
    What do you mean by TBC ?
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  9. TBC = Time Base Corrector. It is built into some VHS decks. You can also buy external TBCs. There are actually several "flavors" of TBCs, and not all of them do the same thing. I think there may be a tutorial or FAQ on this site you can read. Using one can sometimes dramatically improve your transfers
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  10. BTW, in some cases, adjusting the manual tracking control can help reduce the amount of flagging.
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    Some older Panasonic DVD recorders have TBC-like circuitry and can also mitigate flagging and wavy video when the video and audio signals are is passed through them while capturing. (They cannot fix head switching noise.) The DMR ES-10 and DMR-ES15 are two popular models which can often be found for sale used for much less than they cost new.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 1st Oct 2016 at 14:16.
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  12. Member
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    Thanks. I have one last question i want to convert those VHS taps into DVD/PC what is the best setup for this job which also include TBC feature.

    Note:
    I already have LG RH387H - Video Players & Video - DVD Recorder
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    Originally Posted by SB4 View Post
    Thanks. I have one last question i want to convert those VHS taps into DVD/PC what is the best setup for this job which also include TBC feature.

    Note:
    I already have LG RH387H - Video Players & Video - DVD Recorder
    How are you capturing your VHS tapes now? Are you simply using the LG RH387H to record the output from your VCR?
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  14. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by themaster1 View Post
    correct term is "skew error" (aka flagging) it seems:
    http://avaa.bavc.org/artifactatlas/index.php/Flagging
    That site is wrong.
    The technical term is "tearing".
    I don't know where "flagging" came from, but see it from time to time (mostly from VH).

    It's a normally-simple timing error that must be corrected with TBC frame sync, usually line-based.

    That LG will be useless here.
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  15. Member
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by SB4 View Post
    Thanks. I have one last question i want to convert those VHS taps into DVD/PC what is the best setup for this job which also include TBC feature.

    Note:
    I already have LG RH387H - Video Players & Video - DVD Recorder
    How are you capturing your VHS tapes now? Are you simply using the LG RH387H to record the output from your VCR?
    I'm using VHS => DVD => PC to convert VHS taps into PC so i need you to tell me the best method to do this job even if not like mine for example would you recommend DVD/VHS Combo Player and recorder which basically i used right now ?
    Last edited by SB4; 3rd Oct 2016 at 08:06.
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  16. Member
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    Originally Posted by SB4 View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    How are you capturing your VHS tapes now? Are you simply using the LG RH387H to record the output from your VCR?
    I'm using VHS => DVD => PC to convert VHS taps into PC so i need you to tell me the best method to do this job even if not like mine for example would you recommend DVD/VHS Combo Player and recorder which basically i used right now ?
    You did not mention a capture device between the DVD and PC. I assume that means that you are recording the output of your VCR with the the LG RH387H. After recording the tape you are are copying files from a DVD produced by the LG RH387H onto the PC for further processing.

    As lordsmurf told you, the LG RH387H does not correct tearing/flagging. You need to place a line TBC between the VCR and the capture device. You are using the LG RH387H as your capture device.

    Real line TBCs are expensive and harder to find then the Panasonic DMR ES-10 or DMR-ES15, so the DMR ES-10 and DMR-ES15 are often suggested as replacements. These two Panasonic models are known for their ability to correct tearing/flagging. The Panasonic DVD recorder is turned on but is not used to record. The Panasonic DVD recorder is just used to process the video signal from the VCR. You should turn the Panasonic DVD recorder's digital noise reduction off. It is not needed because the LG RH387H also has digital noise reduction.

    To use the LG RH387H for recording connect as follows:

    1. Connect the VCR's composite video out and audio out to Panasonic DVD recorder's video composite in and audio in. Use IN1 on the Panasonic DVD recorder

    2. Connect the Panasonic DVD recorder's S-video out and audio out to the LG DVD recorder's S-video in and audio in.

    I do not recommend a VHS DVD combo player/recorder for capturing tapes with problems.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 3rd Oct 2016 at 10:31.
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  17. Member
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    I used Toshiba DVR620 DVD/VHS Recorder to convert VHS to DVD than i use this DVD in my PC to rip the video.
    When i ask about best setup i mean forget about LG RH387H and give me the suggestion devices to transfer VHS into PC ?
    Because this Toshiba device for my friend not mine i just take it to do some test.
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    Most members here do not recommend VCR/DVD combo player-recorders for VHS capture. The VCR part is never as good as a separate VCR. Also if you use a VCR/DVD combo player-recorder to convert your VHS tapes, you cannot use a separate piece of equipment with a line TBC to correct flagging/tearing either. I have not heard of any VCR/DVD combo player-recorders that include internal circuitry that corrects tearing/flagging.

    I already recommended a capture set up based on your preference for using a DVD recorder to capture: VCR->Panasonic DVD recorder (acts as a line TBC) ->second DVD recorder.

    Other people might recommend: VCR->Panasonic DVD recorder (acts as a line TBC) ->USB capture device->PC. This would allow you to capture to an AVI file using a lossless format like HuffYUV, or Lagarith and PCM audio. After editing the lossless capture, you would convert to DVD or whatever kind of media file you like.

    I don't have any better ideas.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 3rd Oct 2016 at 11:58.
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  19. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by themaster1 View Post
    correct term is "skew error" (aka flagging) it seems:
    http://avaa.bavc.org/artifactatlas/index.php/Flagging
    That site is wrong.
    The technical term is "tearing".
    I don't know where "flagging" came from, but see it from time to time (mostly from VH).
    No idea if these links will work, but you can check for yourself by searching on Google Books.

    Flagging: A defective image characterized by a bent, pulled or slanted picture at the top of the TV screen. lt is usually a result of too little or too much TAPE TENSION, a problem known as SKEW ERROR; an older model TV set; or a tracking control problem resulting from tape that has ... (The Video Encyclopedia, 1983)

    Bending at the top of the picture. This is known as a skew error. The bending can be either to the left or to the right, and it can be continually moving or flagging. If the machine has a skew control, use it to correct the picture. If this does not work, or there is no skew control, then ... (Complete handbook of home video systems, 1982)

    Skew error
    Fig. 7-11 Skew error where back tension in playback is (a) greater, and (b) less than that applied when the recording was made....
    It is important to note that the timing error shown in Fig. 7-11 is the result of a difference in hold-back tension between the machine that made the recording and the machine that is playing back the recording. The depth of the split in vertical lines after (below) the switching point, however, is purely the action of the horizontal AFC recovery time in the receiver or monitor displaying the picture. Older receivers tend to have very long recovery times and will show flagging long after the video-head switching point. Some receivers will show noticeable flagging in the top one-third of the picture. In general, skew error is not a problem when a machine is playing back its own recordings (provided the machine has not been serviced or subjected to long use after the recording was made). Some degree of skew error is almost always detectable, however, when tapes are played that have been made on another machine. It should be noted that a symptom somewhat similar to skew error occurs due to mistracking in home videocassette machines. The cause is the tilted azimuth approach used in the video heads. Because of the difference in azimuth angles,horizontal sync pulses on adjacent video tracks do not line up. Thus, a slight timing error exists as the heads shift toward the edges of the tracks. The visibility of this symptom depends to a very large extent on the recovery time of the horizontal AFC system used in the TV set. Sets that recover quickly to a sync-timing error will not show this symptom at all, but older sets will show lateral bending of vertical lines in the picture if mistracking is present. Again, this symptom is practically nonexistent when a machine is ... (Videocassette recorders: theory and servicing, 1979)
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  20. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    If that "skew error" reference is 1979, it may predate "tearing". Interesting.
    Still never seen "flagging" much.
    Perhaps different terms for different era? It was about 1992 when I got involved.
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  21. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Flagging is a easy term for the problem described since the top of the picture affected looks like a flag waving,I've seen this issue so many times it's usually based on a timing error with either the tv or vcr or both,older tv's had this issue a lot.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  22. Member
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    Can any one recommend a good vhs player which wotk good with Panasonic DMR ES-15 ?
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  23. Member
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    If that "skew error" reference is 1979, it may predate "tearing". Interesting.
    Still never seen "flagging" much.
    Perhaps different terms for different era? It was about 1992 when I got involved.
    "Flagging" is what they used to call it in the 1980s when I was around TV engineers.

    Although the tape base (BOPET) is quite dimensionally stable for a plastic, it can shrink over time, especially under poor storage conditions. The result is what you see in the OP, flagging or tearing toward the right. It's caused by the helical tracks becoming so compressed that the heads can't follow them all the way.
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