Pc to Fairlight CVI ?

[ophirkutiel]

Hi.
i hope this is the right place to post this. if not i apologize.
im pretty new to the whole analog video mixing thing but im in love with it
ive been playing around with my Videonics ve , MX - 50 and a Fairlight cvi.
but im just playing and there are some things i just cant find answers to online.
im trying to figure out what would be the best way to connect them all and also how to output 2 video sources from my pc to these toys
from what i understand if i will connect the fairlight via RGB instead of composite i should get better results ?
is there any video card out there that would output and capture RGB and composite ?
ive seen the ArcadeVGA but im not sure this is the thing i need.

i hope this makes sense ..
any help would be much appreciated
tnx a lot

[redwudz]

Videonics VE seems to just have S-Video and composite in/out. S-Video would be best.
Several capture cards are available to input S-Video signals to a PC. Check Ebay.
That unit was probably made to work with a VCR with composite or S-Video.

Is that a Panasonic MX-50 video mixer? It doesn't seem to have S-Video, just composite.
But I do see Y/C inputs. Looks to be made for mixing camera feeds.

The Fairlight CVI seems to be a hybrid Analog Digital video processor

I personally don't know anything about these devices, I just looked them up.
There is some info on line. Looks like their common use was a low budget TV studio/station.

It looks like they use BNC connectors a lot.

But others here may be familiar with them.

[ophirkutiel]

Tnx A lot redwudz for your replay!
ive been working for a while with composite using HDMI to composite converter . i read everything i could find about graphics cards and different ways to output composite and svideo from a pc but got a bit lost . i was wondering if someone is working with a similar setup and knows of the ultimate\professional way to output 2 (or more) RGB , composite , svideo in different resolutions and refresh rates from a pc?
tnx a lot.

[SameSelf]

the ultimate\professional way to output 2 (or more) RGB , composite , svideo in different resolutions and refresh rates from a pc?

Are you looking for vintage technology to match up with your Fairlight? I can think of several modern companies off the top of my head that make ultimate/professional products that do what you are talking about, taking a single signal and routing to multiple devices, Blackmagic Design and AJA being two easy examples. But these devices aren't cheap.

Anytime you are talking about composite or S-video vs RGB, you are talking about an NTSC/PAL signal, and I would think any video card with a TV-out would be sufficient for your needs (similar to the S-Video out that many old laptops used to have). But, it sounds like you want to capture the analog signal from your Fairlight to digital while at the same time route the analog output to a TV for monitoring. I know for a fact that the Canopus ADVC-300 is capable of doing that. So while maybe not the ultimate/professional solution, it is dang good.

[ophirkutiel]

Tnx Sameself!
ive seen the Canopus ADVC-300 but it only has composite and svideo inputs .
the fairlight has composite or RGB inputs . until now ive worked with the composite using hdmi to composite to output from pc to the fairlight and an Elgato capture stick to capture it back to pc. but i understand that using RGB connections should give me much better quality .
im trying to figure out how i can output 2 different video sources at the same time via bnc RGB from my pc to the fairlight process it and then output RGB back to the pc and capture it.
tnx so much.

[SameSelf]

I see now. Wow, that is some old technology. I have to punt to someone else who has experience with that. Good luck though!

[ophirkutiel]

tnx a lot for your effort

[usually_quiet]

Component video from the TV-out port on a video card is analog YPBPR with sync on Luma, rather than RGB. S-Video is more likely to be usable.

VGA is RGB. SCART is RGB**. ...but they are different with respect to synchronization.

PCs didn't use VGA until after 1987. Prior to that they used other types of video connectors.

I have no idea what type of RGB signal the Fairlight CVI was made to accept in 1984, or how to produce it today. Capturing the Fairlight CVI's RGB output would be another problem. There are VGA capture devices, but it doesn't seem likely that one could be used directly.

**A SCART connection can also be used for S-Video and composite video.

[pandy]

Based on service manual seem to be or PAL or NTSC (i assume depends on particular HW version/model) so regular TV capture solution should be fin - btw i was not aware of this... check few video on YT and it was really nice HW.

[ophirkutiel]

tnx a lot everyone!
here is the back panel of the fairlight . . a beginner question : i see only sync out. does it mean the sync in is thru the composite ?

and this is the ArcadeVGA card https://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html it is for running old school games from a pc on a RGB monitor . they also have a vga to 5 bnc RGB adapter .
but i got a bit lost in all the specifications\Khz\sync\resolutions.. that im not sure this is what i need (at least to get a RGB signal from my pc out to the fairlight)
its definitaly not easy going back in time :\

[usually_quiet]

tnx a lot everyone!
here is the back panel of the fairlight . . a beginner question : i see only sync out. does it mean the sync in is thru the composite ?

and this is the ArcadeVGA card https://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html it is for running old school games from a pc on a RGB monitor . they also have a vga to 5 bnc RGB adapter .
but i got a bit lost in all the specifications\Khz\sync\resolutions.. that im not sure this is what i need (at least to get a RGB signal from my pc out to the fairlight)
its definitaly not easy going back in time :\

I found this tidbit using a search engine

The Fairlight CVI (computer video instrument) is an Australian made digital video FX and paint box made in the mid 80s. It is very low res, and not quite full screen, but it is very much a real time effects box with very fast and intuitive analogue controls. (great for live work). The CVI does things like mirror effects, psychodelic colorisation, chunky stretch and zoom, etc. It has a built in graphics pad for drawing and later models (such as the CVI Plus, pictured above) came with a qwerty keyboard for easy text insertion.

The CVI has 2 channels (with both composite and RGB inputs) but since there is no built in TBC, the inputs must be genlocked to use both channels. Single channel operation, however, does not require the source to be genlocked

The CVI Plus has a resolution of 235 x 287 pixels and a processor clocked at the blistering speed of 2Mhz.

According to diagrams in the manual the Fairlight CVI uses R G B for input (from professional cameras) with one sync connection for genlock when using two inputs. There is no information about allowed frame rates and input resolutions. I'm guessing it expects video input to be interlaced. 235 x 287 is very low resolution.

The ArcadeVGA BNC adapter is a breakout cable for a VGA signal delivered via BNC connections, R + G + B + H-Sync + V-Sync. I couldn't find comprehensive specs indicating the output resolutions and refresh rates available from this card, There is no way I can tell if there is even a small chance of it working.

[pandy]

Service manual says video resolution is 256x256 and 14 bitplanes (12 bit for color - 2 remain bit probably for mask and stencil keying) - perhaps PAL version support slightly different organization but as they use 64K chips (DRAM4164) then i believe it must be able to fit in 65536 bits (single plane).
And this video resolution looks quite well matching typical bandwidth for basic video quality common at the beginning of 80's.
Fairlight CMV is very impressive device i must say... price bit too expensive (bellow 5000$) and this may explain it's relatively low popularity.

Anything that accept SCART should be fine - RGB + Sync on CVBS input.

[ophirkutiel]

tnx everyone!
would this work for me (to output from the pc to the fairlight) ?
http://www.extron.com/product/printable.aspx?id=rgb192

[pandy]

tnx everyone!
would this work for me (to output from the pc to the fairlight) ?
http://www.extron.com/product/printable.aspx?id=rgb192

Probably not... i assume you need something that will be able to output from PC some TV video signal - nowadays it may be difficult to find PC graphics card with composite/ s-video output but luckily for us video can be outputted over typical RGB interface (VGA) (you need to select proper video mode for example 720x576i25 or 720x576i30). You will need some cable with VGA (DVI-A) from one side and BNC connectors from second side, maybe some sync combiner circuit (to combine H and V, VGA sync to single composite sync - i assume circuit like this http://www.sectec.pl/schematic.png should be sufficient)

[ophirkutiel]

tnx so much for the quick replay pandy!
ill do some research and will come back with the update (or perhaps more questions
tnx

[usually_quiet]

tnx so much for the quick replay pandy!
ill do some research and will come back with the update (or perhaps more questions
tnx

References for doing this are 10-12 years old. Maybe pandy still lives in 2005, but the world has moved on. It is actually not easy to do what he's suggesting in 2016.

First, it will be difficult to find a modern video card which allows interlaced SD output from a VGA connector, and it is not easy for an average person to produce composite sync signal from VGA H-Sync and V-Sync. I looked yesterday. Here's one of the pages I found discussing what to do to get SCART RGB from VGA out: https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/RGB_Scart

The video cards suggested there are all AGP models. They won't work in a modern motherboard. Plus, no standard driver interface for a modern video card installed in a PC using Windows 7, 8.1, or 10 will allow the necessary manipulations. You would need to buy software like PowerStrip to just find out if you can do it. Windows XP or Linux drivers may or may not allow it. You'll also need to make/modify a cable and build electronic circuitry for creating a composite sync signal. Does this seem easy to you?

pandy has a bad habit of sending people with average technical skills on wild goose chases, and I promise you that he won't be willing to do any hand-holding to guide you through this process. He's one of the least helpful people on this forum.

[pandy]

References for doing this are 10-12 years old. Maybe pandy still lives in 2005, but the world has moved on. It is actually not easy to do what he's suggesting in 2016.

First, it will be difficult to find a modern video card which allows interlaced SD output from a VGA connector, and not it is not easy for an average person to produce composite sync signal from VGA H-Sync and V-Sync. I looked yesterday. Here's one of the pages I found discussing what to do: https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/RGB_Scart

Latest NVidia cards (GTX980 for example) and drivers support TV video resolution - this is easier in 2016 than in 2005 as HDMI interface forced all GPU vendors to recognize TV standard modes and support them... Intel, AMD have same approach - it was never easier to use TV interlace 720x576i25.

The video cards suggested there are all AGP models. They won't work in a modern motherboard. Plus, no standard driver interface for a modern video card installed in a PC using Windows 7, 8.1, or 10 will allow the necessary manipulations. You would need to buy software like PowerStrip to just find out if you can do it. Windows XP or Linux drivers may or may not allow it.

Your information's are not true, outdated, misleading, side to this you perform classical FUD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
Every standard graphic driver support TV interlace modes (due HDMI) and all new Windows cards + drivers having possibility to create special video modes (such option is available in advanced menu but if 720x576i25/720x480i30 is ok there is no need to add special video modes - special modes may be useful when we are interested in different pixel aspect)

You'll also need to make your own cable and electronic circuitry for creating a composite sync signal. Does this seem easy to you?

More and more people is involved in electronics - popularity for example of Arduino is clear example of this - if you have no skills - fine - not my problem - don't assume that everyone is skillsless like you.
Cable not - BNC to VGA can be relatively easily to found, piece of sync combiner - yes - but perhaps someone can do this for you - just be nice person not mean or grumpy as usually...

pandy has a bad habit of sending people with average technical skills on wild goose chases, and I promise you that he won't be willing to do any hand-holding to guide you through this process. He's one of the least helpful people on this forum.

You have bad habit to suggest that everyone is skillsless and lazy, side to this you are simply jealous for everyone that is not like you.

[usually_quiet]

Latest NVidia cards (GTX980 for example) and drivers support TV video resolution - this is easier in 2016 than in 2005 as HDMI interface forced all GPU vendors to recognize TV standard modes and support them... Intel, AMD have same approach - it was never easier to use TV interlace 720x576i25.

Your information's are not true, outdated, misleading, side to this you perform classical FUD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
Every standard graphic driver support TV interlace modes (due HDMI) and all new Windows cards + drivers having possibility to create special video modes (such option is available in advanced menu but if 720x576i25/720x480i30 is ok there is no need to add special video modes - special modes may be useful when we are interested in different pixel aspect)

Obtaining interlaced video is only easy for HDMI/DVI on modern video cards. We are discussing what is possible for VGA.

Even in 2005 when it was truly needed, interlaced video from VGA was not possible for every video card. Today, not many people care about being able to get analog interlaced video from their PC via VGA, and it is going to be difficult to find mention of any video cards with this feature.

Unless you can provide proof for your claim that a GTX980 can output SD interlaced video from a VGA port or DVI-I to VGA adapter, I'm going to say you are making it up, or obfuscating by merely stating what is true for HDMI.

More and more people is involved in electronics - popularity for example of Arduino is clear example of this - if you have no skills - fine - not my problem - don't assume that everyone is skillsless like you.
Cable not - BNC to VGA can be relatively easily to found, piece of sync combiner - yes - but perhaps someone can do this for you - just be nice person not mean or grumpy as usually...

Your problem is that you assume everybody has skills like you, when the truth is that a large percentage of the population has to call an electrician just to replace a light switch or an electrical outlet. (For the record, I have done that much myself a dozen times.)

Getting someone to do the work is likely to require payment.

You have bad habit to suggest that everyone is skillsless and lazy, side to this you are simply jealous for everyone that is not like you.

Nice autistic meltdown. Did Mommy tell you that when the other kids were mean to you they were just jealous? It is sad to think that you still believe that is the case. Your behavior irritates other people and your mother did you a disservice by telling you otherwise.

[pandy]

Obtaining interlaced video is only easy for HDMI/DVI on modern video cards. We are discussing what is possible for VGA.

Even in 2005 when it was truly needed, interlaced video from VGA was not possible for every video card. Today, not many people care about being able to get analog interlaced video from their PC via VGA, and it is going to be difficult to find mention of any video cards with this feature.

Unless you can provide proof for your claim that a GTX980 can output SD interlaced video from a VGA port or DVI-I to VGA adapter, I'm going to say you are making it up, or obfuscating by merely stating what is true for HDMI.

lol - to demand something first you need to pay for it - if you are interested go and try your self - i've already tried and that's why i know it works.

Your problem is that you assume everybody has skills like you, when the truth is that a large percentage of the population has to call an electrician just to replace a light switch or an electrical outlet. (For the record, I have done that much myself a dozen times.)

I assume that everyone have chance to try and everyone is capable to do simple things - nowadays you don't need even solder anything as breadboards are easily available for a few $ so making this kind of circuits is more or less limited to put things in holes and connect with help of few wires... - consider this as simple IQ test - matching shapes, colors and basic counting capabilities .

Getting someone to do the work is likely to require payment.

Some people like to do such things and they consider this as a hobby - it is hard to believe that you are surrounded by people that do such things only for money but even if this is true then such circuit is not expensive.

Nice autistic meltdown. Did Mommy tell you that when the other kids were mean to you they were just jealous? It is sad to think that you still believe that is the case. Your behavior irritates other people and your mother did you a disservice by telling you otherwise.

Seem you like to give mental health advise for free... (so your previous statement is not entirely true) - yep - definitely lazy and skillsless... you will always find a way to not do anything and blame others for this.

[ophirkutiel]

Hey srry guys i didnt mean to start an argument .. i just wanna feed my fairlight with some RGB .. i understand its not easy but there must be a way to do it .. (right?)
how about this ? http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2006/02/10/radeon_x1900_series_roundup/4
it has rgb scart out and then i can connect the scart to a scart>RGB bnc https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/female-rgb-break-out-scart-to-4-x-bnc--2-x-rca-for...y-pvm-monitors
would that work ?
i also found this http://www.pluggedin.tv/store/SweetSpot_Video_Processor.html
but i dont think it would work with win10
and also the ArcadeVGA again .. they can output RGB from pc to RGB monitors . wouldn't it work with the fairlight ?
http://retrorgb.com/rgbvideocard.html
anyway when i connect the HDMI from my pc (with any video playing in vlc) to a 5$ Chinese HDMI to composite converter and then feed it to the fairlight everything works . but i want to get better quality so im looking for RGB. couldn't imagine it would be so much difficult ..
tnx a lot guys for your insight .

[usually_quiet]

Obtaining interlaced video is only easy for HDMI/DVI on modern video cards. We are discussing what is possible for VGA.

Even in 2005 when it was truly needed, interlaced video from VGA was not possible for every video card. Today, not many people care about being able to get analog interlaced video from their PC via VGA, and it is going to be difficult to find mention of any video cards with this feature.

Unless you can provide proof for your claim that a GTX980 can output SD interlaced video from a VGA port or DVI-I to VGA adapter, I'm going to say you are making it up, or obfuscating by merely stating what is true for HDMI.

lol - to demand something first you need to pay for it - if you are interested go and try your self - i've already tried and that's why i know it works.

Your problem is that you assume everybody has skills like you, when the truth is that a large percentage of the population has to call an electrician just to replace a light switch or an electrical outlet. (For the record, I have done that much myself a dozen times.)

I assume that everyone have chance to try and everyone is capable to do simple things - nowadays you don't need even solder anything as breadboards are easily available for a few $ so making this kind of circuits is more or less limited to put things in holes and connect with help of few wires... - consider this as simple IQ test - matching shapes, colors and basic counting capabilities .

Getting someone to do the work is likely to require payment.

Some people like to do such things and they consider this as a hobby - it is hard to believe that you are surrounded by people that do such things only for money but even if this is true then such circuit is not expensive.

Nice autistic meltdown. Did Mommy tell you that when the other kids were mean to you they were just jealous? It is sad to think that you still believe that is the case. Your behavior irritates other people and your mother did you a disservice by telling you otherwise.

Seem you like to give mental health advise for free... (so your previous statement is not entirely true) - yep - definitely lazy and skillsless... you will always find a way to not do anything and blame others for this.

Exactly as I expected, another autistic meltdown....

Screenshots of the configuration windows for the GTX 980 showing the settings used to configure it to output SD interlaced VGA would be a form of proof as well as helpful to the OP.

I wonder why someone claiming to be technically proficient, hard-working, and helpful to others who has configured a GTX 980 to output SD interlaced video via VGA can't be bothered to post anything to demonstrate how he did that? Maybe because he is actually lazy, unhelpful and untruthful.

[usually_quiet]

Hey srry guys i didnt mean to start an argument .. i just wanna feed my fairlight with some RGB .. i understand its not easy but there must be a way to do it .. (right?)
how about this ? http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2006/02/10/radeon_x1900_series_roundup/4
it has rgb scart out and then i can connect the scart to a scart>RGB bnc https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/female-rgb-break-out-scart-to-4-x-bnc--2-x-rca-for...y-pvm-monitors
would that work ?

I also found this http://www.pluggedin.tv/store/SweetSpot_Video_Processor.html
but i dont think it would work with win10
and also the ArcadeVGA again .. they can output RGB from pc to RGB monitors . wouldn't it work with the fairlight ?
http://retrorgb.com/rgbvideocard.html
anyway when i connect the HDMI from my pc (with any video playing in vlc) to a 5$ Chinese HDMI to composite converter and then feed it to the fairlight everything works . but i want to get better quality so im looking for RGB. couldn't imagine it would be so much difficult ..
tnx a lot guys for your insight .

The linked review for the AIW X1900 does say it supports RGB SCART out and it has Windows 7 drivers available. There is a chance it will work, but a number of the AIW cards were reportedly temperamental. I'm not sure about that one.

I hope you can find one. That card is long out of production, so it may not be easy to find where you are. Also some of AMD's Windows 7's driver interfaces for older TV tuner cards and VGA cards don't allow access to all of the features that their original drivers permitted.

The RetroRGB card pictured is an AGP card.

If you meant the ArcadeVGA, as I said before I can't find any specs on it. It also has custom drivers. You had better write to the maker for help.

[usually_quiet]

If you decide to get the AIW X1900, make sure it has all the accessory cables and adapters. Those can be difficult to replace.

[Edit]When I remembered to research the AIW X1900's analog capture functionality under Windows 7, I found that the All-In-Wonder X1900 becomes a regular video card under Windows 7. ATI didn't release any capture drivers or Theater 200 chip drivers for Windows 7, only new GPU drivers

[SameSelf]

Hey srry guys i didnt mean to start an argument

Don't worry. You didn't. You are the one who deserves an apology.

I am not certain, but it would seem to me that if your motherboard has a VGA connector (most still do and remember VGA outputs RGB) then perhaps all you might need is something like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1020521-REG/kramer_c_gm_5bm_3_hd15_male_to_5.html

or this, depending on if the Fairlight has male of female BNC:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1020519-REG/kramer_c_gm_5bf_6_hd15_male_to_5.html

[pandy]

Nice autistic meltdown.

Story of your life is sad and amazing at the same and your ego is even bigger... one free advise you should take seriously - search for sehr gute shrink - viel Spaß dabei...

Hey srry guys i didnt mean to start an argument .. i just wanna feed my fairlight with some RGB .. i understand its not easy but there must be a way to do it .. (right?)

Sorry for that - not sure when this all started and people like you are victims of such stupid discussions.

I checked all above and all you need is converter that accept any modern signal (it can be also HDMI to SCART converter) - i still strongly support easiest from my perspective way to deal with SD resolution on VGA output by selecting proper video mode on your PC - maybe it will be easier to help you when you describe your PC configuration - graphics HW, video outputs and driver for graphics. I will try search for possible configuration and perhaps even hook VM700T to confirm video mode.

[usually_quiet]

I am not certain, but it would seem to me that if your motherboard has a VGA connector (most still do and remember VGA outputs RGB) then perhaps all you might need is something like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1020521-REG/kramer_c_gm_5bm_3_hd15_male_to_5.html

or this, depending on if the Fairlight has male of female BNC:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1020519-REG/kramer_c_gm_5bf_6_hd15_male_to_5.html

No. The Fairlight CVI was designed to accept interlaced RGB output from very old pro video cameras and composite sync. VGA didn't even exist when the The Fairlight CVI was released.

Sync is different for VGA (H-Sync and V-Sync rather than composite sync), and VGA is normally progressive. Interlaced SD RGB from VGA out is not universally supported by all VGA cards and sync has to be converted to composite.

[usually_quiet]

Nice autistic meltdown.

Story of your life is sad and amazing at the same and your ego is even bigger... one free advise you should take seriously - search for sehr gute shrink - viel Spaß dabei...

After you. You need therapy far more than I do. Too bad nothing can be done about your autistic disorder.

[ophirkutiel]

[QUOTE=usually_quiet;2454161]

No. The Fairlight CVI was designed to accept interlaced RGB output from very old pro video cameras and composite sync. VGA didn't even exist when the The Fairlight CVI was released.

Sync is different for VGA (H-Sync and V-Sync rather than composite sync), and VGA is normally progressive. Interlaced SD RGB from VGA out is not universally supported by all VGA cards and sync has to be converted to composite.

what will happen if i feed the fairlight progressive footage ?

[ophirkutiel]

[QUOTE=pandy;2454151]

I checked all above and all you need is converter that accept any modern signal (it can be also HDMI to SCART converter) - i still strongly support easiest from my perspective way to deal with SD resolution on VGA output by selecting proper video mode on your PC - maybe it will be easier to help you when you describe your PC configuration - graphics HW, video outputs and driver for graphics. I will try search for possible configuration and perhaps even hook VM700T to confirm video mode.

sounds too good
im running on win10
Graphics card is AMD (TM) R9 390 with DVI HDMI and DPP out (not the most vintage card) .
but if there is any card that will do this for me i will get it .
tnx a lot!

[ophirkutiel]

If you decide to get the AIW X1900, make sure it has all the accessory cables and adapters. Those can be difficult to replace.

[Edit]When I remembered to research the AIW X1900's analog capture functionality under Windows 7, I found that the All-In-Wonder X1900 becomes a regular video card under Windows 7. ATI didn't release any capture drivers or Theater 200 chip drivers for Windows 7, only new GPU drivers

oo.. maybe i can get another pc and run a compatible windows on it just for that. this is still my best direction so far..