Changing over to SSD... some advice

[lordhutt]

Ok, so I bought a Samsung 850 evo to put my OS on (win7)
I figured this would be an effortless task and maybe it is if you know all the answers but this is a bit of a pain in the ass.

I wont bore you with why it took my multiple hours to enable AHCI... so moving along
I know certain things like disabling defrag and page file, ...and enabling AHCI, TRIM are always to be done....

But what is the general consensus on what to enable/disable as I'm reading mixed reviews on many of these.

1. System Restore... this has saved me more than once... I'd hate to think of having it disabled.

2. Disable indexing

3. Prefetch and Superfetch

4. Disable Hibernation/Sleep... an SSD might boot windows faster but there is still like 30 seconds from a dead shut down before windows even starts loading until the mobo goes through all its stuff....


I've already installed Win7 on my SSD but after all the crap I went through and a lot of my software is not installed yet I just want to start over one more time.
Should I wipe the SSD or should a simple format be good enough before I reinstall?

Any other advice so I can get this done right this time?

[hudsonf]

On all my computers with SSD's I run Windows 10 and this is my settings.
1. System Restore is on.
2. Indexing is on.
3. Never used so I can't answer.
4. I use Sleep so it's turned on.
I haven't had any problems with these settings. Not sure why you want to start over but if your not happy with your install then do it before you get to far with this install.

[-Habanero-]

1. System Restore... this has saved me more than once... I'd hate to think of having it disabled.

I would do whole drive backups every month instead. A system restore can make your system unbootable if something goes wrong in the process. Nonetheless, I have system restore enabled on my SSD in case I wanna undo something that happened on the 29th day since the last backup.

2. Disable indexing

Definitely. Don't even use windows search for fücks sake, it sucks donkey dick. Use Ultrasearch, it's free and finds stuff in less than a split second because it searches the MFT instead of huge index databases.

3. Prefetch and Superfetch

Disable it. Useless on an SSD, no debate about it.

4. Disable Hibernation/Sleep... an SSD might boot windows faster but there is still like 30 seconds from a dead shut down before windows even starts loading until the mobo goes through all its stuff....

Use stand-by instead. It takes seconds to sleep and wake up. It requires a source of electricity while sleeping tho, but not much. A few watts at best.

I've already installed Win7 on my SSD but after all the crap I went through and a lot of my software is not installed yet I just want to start over one more time.
Should I wipe the SSD or should a simple format be good enough before I reinstall?

If you want to keep all your stuff, clone your HDD to your SSD instead. It's what I did and it worked fine.

[pepegot1]

Do not use hibernation as it will reduce the life of the SSD with its read and writes of 16 - 32 gig of data, depending on your ram size. I have sys restore on and index off.

[redwudz]

W7 should handle a SSD without needing any add ons. I have a 250GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO drive and W7 64bit and it works fine.
'No defrag' and TRIM should already be set up when the OS sees a SSD. Wear leveling should be done by the SSD's firmware.

AHCI can be a pain to switch over to when it's not installed when the OS is installed. I always turn it on in BIOS before installing the OS.

I do move the PAGE file to one of my other drives and try to keep all programs from installing stuff on the SSD or using it for storage.
I like to keep the SSD about 50% full at most to allow easy wear leveling by the SSD firmware.

Since that's a new SSD, I would just do a partition delete and a quick format with the W7 install.

Prefetch and SuperFetch, I don't worry about them. You can turn off indexing, but I don't really know what affect it has on the SSD speed.

With nothing but the OS on a SSD drive, it will load the OS very quickly. But with a bunch of other optical and HDD drives, that will slow a bit.
And lots of software on the SSD will slow it a bit also. Still, faster than a mechanical drive.

Not sure how Hibernation or Sleep is involved. I use Sleep for a power down on my PC, but I like to do a full restart
at least once a month to reset some parameters.

My PC with the SSD presently takes about 12 seconds from POST beep to full screen. It was about half that time when I first installed the OS.

[lordhutt]

Well I wanted to start over just because I was having so much trouble with the AHCI... I've gone through things twice with this drive before figuring out all the settings.

Short story is.. I changed to AHCI after windows install... so I had to make the couple changes in the registry (actually one was correct so I just changed msachi value). But I also had to make multiple changes in the bios (had to use the manual on that one!) as well as install more drivers (Marvell 9128 controller) and update the IDE ATA/ATAPI driver from Microsoft to Intel.

It seems many of my other questions are trivial.
And I did move the Pagefile to one of my HDD's.
Just not sure if my boot times are what they should be as well as program launches.
I just did a boot from a complete shut down... 15:22 seconds before I saw the Loading ASUS Express Gate on the screen... 36:96 till I saw the Starting Windows logo... then 49:37 to full boot. So a little under 13 seconds from the time I saw starting Windows.
Are these times I should be happy with? Do the two HDD's and the optical drive add that much to the boot time as redwudz suggests?
I really wish I would have done this with setup before reinstall but I didn't.

@redwudz about the Prefetch/Superfetch and indexing... I think people arguments were about wear on the drive as opposed to speed....actually that probably goes for all the numbered questions.

[lordhutt]

Definitely. Don't even use windows search for fücks sake, it sucks donkey dick. Use Ultrasearch, it's free and finds stuff in less than a split second because it searches the MFT instead of huge index databases.

Dear freaking god that is fast.

[The_Doman]

Well I wanted to start over just because I was having so much trouble with the AHCI... I've gone through things twice with this drive before figuring out all the settings.

Short story is.. I changed to AHCI after windows install... so I had to make the couple changes in the registry (actually one was correct so I just changed msachi value). But I also had to make multiple changes in the bios (had to use the manual on that one!) as well as install more drivers (Marvell 9128 controller) and update the IDE ATA/ATAPI driver from Microsoft to Intel.

Not sure about what all the trouble with the the AHCI?
Yes it should be on and just install windows(7) and let it update the drivers?
I don't know what motherboard you using but make sure you use the Intel based SATA ports for the main SSD/HDD drives.
Those extra sata ports (marvel) often perform pretty badly.

[lordhutt]

Well I wanted to start over just because I was having so much trouble with the AHCI... I've gone through things twice with this drive before figuring out all the settings.

Short story is.. I changed to AHCI after windows install... so I had to make the couple changes in the registry (actually one was correct so I just changed msachi value). But I also had to make multiple changes in the bios (had to use the manual on that one!) as well as install more drivers (Marvell 9128 controller) and update the IDE ATA/ATAPI driver from Microsoft to Intel.

Not sure about what all the trouble with the the AHCI?
Yes it should be on and just install windows(7) and let it update the drivers?
I don't know what motherboard you using but make sure you use the Intel based SATA ports for the main SSD/HDD drives.
Those extra sata ports (marvel) often perform pretty badly.

I'm running an older ASUS P6X58D-E
I have 8 SATA ports but only two are 6GB (which I am using for the SSD)
This is where I was confused and having trouble... when I originally was changing my SATA from IDE to AHCI it was only for the 3GB ports.
I had to go to the advanced settings and there was another setting to change these 2 ports from IDE to AHCI... then once I did that I had to install the Marvell drivers.
Using Samsung Magician benchmark tests was still not where it needed to be.
Checking in device manager the IDE ATA/ATAPI driver was a Microsoft driver from 2009... after updating to an Intel driver from 2012 that made a difference.

So that was all new for me and took a little time to figure out.

[-Habanero-]

Definitely. Don't even use windows search for fücks sake, it sucks donkey dick. Use Ultrasearch, it's free and finds stuff in less than a split second because it searches the MFT instead of huge index databases.

Dear freaking god that is fast.

No idea if this is sarcasm but don't take my word for it, download it and see for yourself.

[lordhutt]

Definitely. Don't even use windows search for fücks sake, it sucks donkey dick. Use Ultrasearch, it's free and finds stuff in less than a split second because it searches the MFT instead of huge index databases.

Dear freaking god that is fast.

No idea if this is sarcasm but don't take my word for it, download it and see for yourself.

Heh... I downloaded it... I was being serious!!!

[The_Doman]

I'm running an older ASUS P6X58D-E
I have 8 SATA ports but only two are 6GB (which I am using for the SSD)
This is where I was confused and having trouble... when I originally was changing my SATA from IDE to AHCI it was only for the 3GB ports.
I had to go to the advanced settings and there was another setting to change these 2 ports from IDE to AHCI... then once I did that I had to install the Marvell drivers.

Yeah, but those 6GB ports are the seperate marvel controllers.
3GB or 6GB does not matter much, for performance/stability it is better to use the Intel (sata2) ports instead.

Tomshardware.co.uk: Asus P6X58-E - Marvel SATA 3 or Intel Sata 2?

Dleslie212
30 October 2013 03:48:28

For anybody else reading this, I hooked up the Samsung Evo 840 to the Intel Sata 2 controller, checked speeds using Samsung Magician, then hooked to the Sata 3 Marvell controller and checked again. Speeds were much, much better with the Intel Sata 2 port. I don't remember the specific speeds or the difference, just that it was significant. Thanks for the help, all.

[lordhutt]

I'm running an older ASUS P6X58D-E
I have 8 SATA ports but only two are 6GB (which I am using for the SSD)
This is where I was confused and having trouble... when I originally was changing my SATA from IDE to AHCI it was only for the 3GB ports.
I had to go to the advanced settings and there was another setting to change these 2 ports from IDE to AHCI... then once I did that I had to install the Marvell drivers.

Yeah, but those 6GB ports are the seperate marvel controllers.
3GB or 6GB does not matter much, for performance/stability it is better to use the Intel (sata2) ports instead.

Yeah, you ain't kidding... my pc has BSOD'ing the hell out of me.
WhoCrashed is blaming it on the marvell driver.
A search reveals a ton of people with that problem.
Many people pointing here for an updated driver
http://www.station-drivers.com/index.php?lang=fr
After all these BSOD my pc in now taking 2:18 to boot once the Win logo appears... although Samsung Magician is giving me higher scores than before now that I'm back on SATA 2

I think I should just go to bed for now before I go Office Space printer on my computer.

[Krispy Kritter]

Not SSD specific, but will answer some of your questions concerning Win7 setup: https://tweakhound.com/tweaking-windows-7/

[lordhutt]

Not SSD specific, but will answer some of your questions concerning Win7 setup: https://tweakhound.com/tweaking-windows-7/

Thanks but I've had enough... this computer has been giving me issues for over a month now... and its over 6 years old.

Arriving tomorrow and Saturday
ASUS X99 Deluxe
i7-5820
Corsair H110i
Ballistix Sport LT 64GB ram
NZXT Phantom 820 case

Possibly Samsung 950 M.2 SSD

Going to use a pair of GTX 660's until I feel like spending more money on a video card.

Biggest decision now is staying with Win7 or going 10....

[lordhutt]

I've never used Linux....
I hear it a great OS but the forced updates (is MS the new Apple!!) and everything I hear about them trying to spy on us is making me really want to avoid Windows 10

What is Linux like these days?
How many people here use it?

Given the components I mentioned above would this be an option?
I'm about to start checking the main pieces of software I use to see what is compatible.

I'm thinking a good bit of the software I use wont be...

[Poppa_Meth]

The biggest issue with Linux is that there are a ton of Distros out there. Finding the right one for you takes time. Mint is one of the more popular flavors and they just released their latest LTS based version so it'll be stable for quite a while. Depending on what software you are using you could very well find some decent equivalents, but if you use any of the major commercial products, such as Adobe, you'll find the free stuff just doesn't quite stack up.

[Krispy Kritter]

The biggest determination is what you do on the computer and what software you use. As noted above, while there are plenty of free apps around, the popular tools are Windows only, and there aren't any equivalents to the major commercial tools.

But if you don't mind spending time to learn a new OS and spend time researching/finding/testing new apps/tools to suit all your needs, there is nothing wrong with moving on from Windows.

I'm getting preparing to build a new rig myself, just waiting for all of the hardware to show up. My only decision left is the Win7 or Win10 debate.


*NOTE: there is a Win10 tweak guide at the site linked above as well.

[lordhutt]

Yeah I"m probably using too wide a variety of programs to abandon Windows all together.
And have too many other projects going on right now to devote time to learning a new OS.
I'm thinking I'll probably just stick to Win 7... I'm very familiar with it and don't need to disable 50 things and install multiple apps to keep MS from data harvesting my every step. The fact that this is being given away for free and the nightmare stories I hear from people being harassed to upgrade and upgrades just happening without permission is more than enough to make me leery of this OS.

[netmask56]

Run Gibson's Never10 https://www.grc.com/never10.htm to keep forced updates away. Works well.

[turk690]

ASUS X99 Deluxe
i7-5820
Corsair H110i
Ballistix Sport LT 64GB ram
NZXT Phantom 820 case

Possibly Samsung 950 M.2 SSD
...

Like most recent Intel chipset mother boards, this one supports a few RAID modes out of the box. Conventional HDDs and SSDs all eventually die when you least expect they do, so I have always used RAID1 for the system drive. On top of regular backups, RAID1 has saved my day many times. You might want to consider that.

[october262]

Yeah I"m probably using too wide a variety of programs to abandon Windows all together.
And have too many other projects going on right now to devote time to learning a new OS.
I'm thinking I'll probably just stick to Win 7... I'm very familiar with it and don't need to disable 50 things and install multiple apps to keep MS from data harvesting my every step. The fact that this is being given away for free and the nightmare stories I hear from people being harassed to upgrade and upgrades just happening without permission is more than enough to make me leery of this OS.

isn't windows 7 already on extended life support ??
I already have LINUX Ubuntu installed on another desktop
using a reformatted Xbox 360 hard drive, and Ubuntu is already on
a Bootable flash drive. So far to me it seems like a quiet operating system.

[lordhutt]

Run Gibson's Never10 https://www.grc.com/never10.htm to keep forced updates away. Works well.

I honestly never got harassed about 'updating' to win 10 for some reason but I do know about this program. Is there a program for Win 10 that stops it from updating? Now that would be a great thing!

Like most recent Intel chipset mother boards, this one supports a few RAID modes out of the box. Conventional HDDs and SSDs all eventually die when you least expect they do, so I have always used RAID1 for the system drive. On top of regular backups, RAID1 has saved my day many times. You might want to consider that.

Never used RAID and didn't think to do that but I definitely like that idea.
Let me ask you this though... I do have a Intel 750 PCIe SSD.... but based on what I just read in a magazine and recommendations in another forum I am going to send it back in exchange for the Smasung 950Pro M.2 drive.
RAID 1 is simply two drive mirrored of each other correct?
So my question is if I'm running my OS on an M.2 drive can I use any other drive for the second one? Like a HDD or SATA SSD at best? And if so with the second drive being much slower will that have any affect on performance speed?

isn't windows 7 already on extended life support ??
I already have LINUX Ubuntu installed on another desktop
using a reformatted Xbox 360 hard drive, and Ubuntu is already on
a Bootable flash drive. So far to me it seems like a quiet operating system.

If you mean from MS support they are supporting it until Jan. 2020
I've always wanted to try Linux but like I said what do I do about all the software I regularly use that isn't going to work on it... some of being quite costly...

For example... just looking at some of the software I've purchased
Photodex Proshow Producer... with addons and stuff I have over $300 invested in that software.
Quicken that I use for my checking
Tag and Rename that I use for MP3 Id tags
JRiver media player (Linux does exist)
Better File Rename for batch renaming files.... this program has saved me countless hours
Display Fusion for multiple monitor options
Newsbin Pro for Usenet
Sony Movie Studio HD
Make MKV (LInux exists I believe)
DBPowerAmp for CD ripping

plus many more....
If there was a way I could run all this in Linux I be trying it out without hesitation.

[redwudz]

Never used RAID and didn't think to do that but I definitely like that idea.
Let me ask you this though... I do have a Intel 750 PCIe SSD.... but based on what I just read in a magazine and recommendations in another forum I am going to send it back in exchange for the Smasung 950Pro M.2 drive.
RAID 1 is simply two drive mirrored of each other correct?
So my question is if I'm running my OS on an M.2 drive can I use any other drive for the second one? Like a HDD or SATA SSD at best? And if so with the second drive being much slower will that have any affect on performance speed?

I wouldn't try that. There may be a option for your RAID settings for 'JBOD' (Just a Bunch of Drives' that can allow mixing of drive sizes and brands. but I don't know about SSDs and regular mechanical drives. I suspect it would greatly slow down data handling and defeat most of the benefits of running a fast SSD.

What you could do is to use a backup program that would regularly back your boot drive up to a secondary hard drive. I've used Acronis True Image for that.

[october262]

Run Gibson's Never10 https://www.grc.com/never10.htm to keep forced updates away. Works well.

I honestly never got harassed about 'updating' to win 10 for some reason but I do know about this program. Is there a program for Win 10 that stops it from updating? Now that would be a great thing!

Like most recent Intel chipset mother boards, this one supports a few RAID modes out of the box. Conventional HDDs and SSDs all eventually die when you least expect they do, so I have always used RAID1 for the system drive. On top of regular backups, RAID1 has saved my day many times. You might want to consider that.

Never used RAID and didn't think to do that but I definitely like that idea.
Let me ask you this though... I do have a Intel 750 PCIe SSD.... but based on what I just read in a magazine and recommendations in another forum I am going to send it back in exchange for the Smasung 950Pro M.2 drive.
RAID 1 is simply two drive mirrored of each other correct?
So my question is if I'm running my OS on an M.2 drive can I use any other drive for the second one? Like a HDD or SATA SSD at best? And if so with the second drive being much slower will that have any affect on performance speed?

isn't windows 7 already on extended life support ??
I already have LINUX Ubuntu installed on another desktop
using a reformatted Xbox 360 hard drive, and Ubuntu is already on
a Bootable flash drive. So far to me it seems like a quiet operating system.

If you mean from MS support they are supporting it until Jan. 2020
I've always wanted to try Linux but like I said what do I do about all the software I regularly use that isn't going to work on it... some of being quite costly...

For example... just looking at some of the software I've purchased
Photodex Proshow Producer... with addons and stuff I have over $300 invested in that software.
Quicken that I use for my checking
Tag and Rename that I use for MP3 Id tags
JRiver media player (Linux does exist)
Better File Rename for batch renaming files.... this program has saved me countless hours
Display Fusion for multiple monitor options
Newsbin Pro for Usenet
Sony Movie Studio HD
Make MKV (LInux exists I believe)
DBPowerAmp for CD ripping

plus many more....
If there was a way I could run all this in Linux I be trying it out without hesitation.

Here are some tools for Linux - https://www.videohelp.com/software/sections/linux-video-tools

[Poppa_Meth]

If you are going to go the Win10 route I'd suggest springing for the Pro version. You can set it to defer upgrades. The home version gives you no option so you become the guinea pig for the business users. My gaming rig has Pro on it with deferred upgrades and I've experienced no major issues so far and very few actual updates, which shows just how much unnecessary crap the home version gets.

[lordhutt]

What you could do is to use a backup program that would regularly back your boot drive up to a secondary hard drive. I've used Acronis True Image for that.

Yeah, that is probably the better route. I can't imagine mixing drives like that being of any benefit to me with the M.2 drive.
Maybe I'll make a disk image of my initial setup with all programs installed then have it make a new back up every 2-4 weeks.
I'm setting up my first NAS at the same time as well so I could even have it back up to that.

Here are some tools for Linux - https://www.videohelp.com/software/sections/linux-video-tools

Thanks Dude... I skimmed through this and use at least a half dozen or so. I'll take a more thorough look later on.

If you are going to go the Win10 route I'd suggest springing for the Pro version. You can set it to defer upgrades. The home version gives you no option so you become the guinea pig for the business users. My gaming rig has Pro on it with deferred upgrades and I've experienced no major issues so far and very few actual updates, which shows just how much unnecessary crap the home version gets.

I think I am just going to go Win7 for now since I am familiar and comfortable with it. And if I go with 10 Pro then I am going to have to pay no matter what so no rush on the free upgrade.
I'll just wait and see how things go with 10 after a little more time... and research Linux more as well.

[turk690]

Never used RAID and didn't think to do that but I definitely like that idea.
Let me ask you this though... I do have a Intel 750 PCIe SSD.... but based on what I just read in a magazine and recommendations in another forum I am going to send it back in exchange for the Smasung 950Pro M.2 drive.
RAID 1 is simply two drive mirrored of each other correct?
So my question is if I'm running my OS on an M.2 drive can I use any other drive for the second one? Like a HDD or SATA SSD at best? And if so with the second drive being much slower will that have any affect on performance speed?

I install workstations in my job and, since the time of the dinosaurs, without exception they have always had some form of RAID, RAID1 being the most common (RAID1 is mirroring, which implies, ideally, two identical HDDs or SSDs). On top of any existing backup regimen, the benefits are obvious: a dead or dying drive is replaced and system automatically rebuilds the lot with nary a blip in usual operations. Cost concerns about separate RAID h/w controllers and extra HDDs have previously kept this from trickling down to mainstream use. In the past 5 years or so, though, Intel chipset mother boards have offered RAID as built-in standard, and with the costs of HDDs markedly going down, why not just use it? The only real cost is that other separate drive; on PCs I currently build for the beautiful people I know, I use two 256GB or 480GB SSDs for the purpose, adding $100 to 200 to the bottomline, but with much less hair-pulling and teeth-gnashing later when one drive dies, which it's always wont to do.
The various iterations of RAID out there can indeed be a cause for speed concerns; Windows, which has its own s/w level RAID implementation may well be the slowest. Some previous older cheap (3rd party) RAID controllers are also strictly s/w; Adaptec RAID controllers are expensive because they are h/w, and therefore fast. Intel has a mixture of both on current motherboards; RAID control & configuration of the 6- or 8-port SATA is part of BIOS; a Windoze app manages it and tells you exactly what's happening (including, but not limited to if and when one drive has died, is about to (and therefore needs replacement), or because of corruption has to rebuild the volume). Even with 7200rpm HDDs, no concern has been raised with what I put together that the RAID1 slowed it down or any of that ersatz. Current super-fast SSDs has effectively thrown the argument out onto the compost heap.
Dedicated and zealous video people like you and me backup, manually or automatically, our system drive so we can retrieve the lot when it goes south. RAID1 simplifies the whole thing and we can go on edit away the timeline even if a drive died. Saving your precious *.prproj files in good time, you shut down computer, replace drive, and go right back where you were.
Although identical drive models work best with RAID1, I've replaced HDDs with a later model (old one wasn't available anymore), but same speed and size. SSD controllers and size iterations change by the day, but I've never had one so far die. In case in the future an SSD has to be replaced and its dramatically different controller does dampen the speed when mirrored with its older counterpart, I may well just have to rebuild the volume on two new identical drives. But SSDs will have cost even less then; RAID1 has nonetheless served its purpose with the one good drive to rebuild the volume from.

[SameSelf]

why not just use it?

because the average user doesn't have an IT pro to help them when something goes wrong, and stuff always goes wrong with RAID, especially software RAID. Recommending RAID to the non-tech savvy is irresponsible. RAID needs to just die.

[mikel]

I've been running an 850 EVO for about a year.

You might check out the Magician software.
I get a 15% speed increase in random read with 10% partition for over-provisioning.
I get another 15% increase by using "rapid mode".

Warning: Win 7 to Win 10 upgrade re-partitioned my system drive, & I lost Over-provision.
Also lost Rapid mode until I upgraded Magician to v 4.9.7 and updated ssd firmware.
Went back to Win 7 last week.
YMMV
Hope this helps.