Transfering Mini DV to PC with no loss

[flashandpan007]

My captured DV files contain date and time code, do via firewire 400 captured files also contain it? If I would capture it with an analog capture device I won't have it in the files.

[jcikal]

For display of time & date code, I found this:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/303721-Capture-miniDV-to-pc-WITH-date-time-stamp
https://www.videohelp.com/software/DVdate

[flashandpan007]

Not hordcoding, these are available as metadata

[Brad]

If someone knows how to get Digital 8 and Mini DV to the PC looking the same

Digital8 and MiniDV are easy-peasy. In your original post, you mentioned Hi8, the analog format.

If all your tapes are digital, transfer them all via Firewire.

[smrpix]

My captured DV files contain date and time code, do via firewire 400 captured files also contain it?

Yes.

[flashandpan007]

My captured DV files contain date and time code, do via firewire 400 captured files also contain it?

Yes.

I have to be more precise with my question. Does Hi8 video captured via Firewire 400 of an Digital8-device also contain the date and timecode like my captures from my old MiniDV-Camcorder?

If yes, then this would be a benefit to capture over firewire instead of analog.

[SameSelf]

How come it's so easy to convert 60yr old material (8mm film) to digital and yet 15yr old material is so complicated, convoluted and seems like there is no one clear answer or solution?

What makes you think converting 60yr old 8mm film to digital is easy? If you dive into debayering algorithms, raw vs dpx, gamma profiles, etc., I can assure you that imaging film is every bit as complicated as capturing video. In fact, I would argue capturing video is easier because there isn't that much information on the videotape anyway, which has already been stated.

The devil is always in the details, but most of the detailed discussions on this forum are the result of dealing with degraded tape (noise, jitter, tearing etc.). If there is nothing wrong with your tapes, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

[jcikal]

Question #1: I can play Hi8 on my Digital8 Camcorder, so I have to assume that capturing my Hi8 tapes over Firewire by using my Digital8 Camcorder would result in no picture loss, as opposed to capturing them via an analog camcorder through an analog capturing board.

Question #2: Likewise my SVHS mini tapes which I can play on my analog VHS camcorder running the cables through my Firewire-based Mini DV or Digital8 camcorder and capturing via Firewire, would it also result in better picture quality than using an analog capturing device?

[JVRaines]

How come it's so easy to convert 60yr old material (8mm film) to digital and yet 15yr old material is so complicated, convoluted and seems like there is no one clear answer or solution?

Film is an iconic medium. A bunch of little pictures. All you have to do is light them up and capture their images with a video camera, which is essentially what any film scanner does.

Magnetic tape is an analog medium. It contains a varying magnetic imprint which must be electromechanically converted to a varying voltage, and then that voltage interpreted as an image comprising hundreds of lines changing 30 times a second. All of which was designed to be displayed on the face of a vacuum tube with a fraction of the resolution of the device you're reading this on.

That's why.

[JVRaines]

Question #1: I can play Hi8 on my Digital8 Camcorder, so I have to assume that capturing my Hi8 tapes over Firewire by using my Digital8 Camcorder would result in no picture loss, as opposed to capturing them via an analog camcorder through an analog capturing board.

Question #2: Likewise my SVHS mini tapes which I can play on my analog VHS camcorder running the cables through my Firewire-based Mini DV or Digital8 camcorder and capturing via Firewire, would it also result in better picture quality than using an analog capturing device?

The answer to both is no, providing that you choose a better codec than DV for the result of your analog capture. When you use FireWire, your only choice is DV. That is the accurate answer to your questions. Based on what you have posted, however, I believe you will be perfectly happy with the FireWire result.

[jagabo]

Question #1: I can play Hi8 on my Digital8 Camcorder, so I have to assume that capturing my Hi8 tapes over Firewire by using my Digital8 Camcorder would result in no picture loss, as opposed to capturing them via an analog camcorder through an analog capturing board.

Your assumption is wrong. What's on the Hi8 tape is analog video. Capture by the D8 camcorder is only as good as the transport mechanism and analog-to-digital electronics of the camcorder. The results may be better or worse than any other method or equipment.

[johnmeyer]

How come it's so easy to convert 60yr old material (8mm film) to digital and yet 15yr old material is so complicated, convoluted and seems like there is no one clear answer or solution?

As someone who does both film and video transfer for aliving, there is no comparison: 60-year-old film is MUCH more difficult. Transferring DV material is trivial.

Is there a difference in picture quality between capturing in FW400, FW800 or thru the Blackmagic Intensity box?

You've asked this question over and over, and people have already responded. I don't know how much more can be added, except perhaps a few details on settings for the Blackmagic box.

If someone knows how to get Digital 8 and Mini DV to the PC looking the same (or as close to it as possible), please let me know, as I realize that this is a very frustrating field, as opposed to just ripping a DVD or Blu Ray disc which is children's stuff, compared to the nuclear physicist degree one appears to need to just transfer personal videos from a camcorder.

I feel a little frustrated because I have provided very explicit answers. This is a very simple thing to do: you connect your DV or Digital 8 camcorder's Firewire output to your computer. You then install the free Scenalyzer application and use that to capture the video. This capture process involves no rendering or re-encoding and instead is nothing more than a copy process. The video that arrives on your computer's hard drive is bit-for-bit identical to what is on the DV videotape.

When it comes to capturing the video on your DV tapes, there is no alternate or better workflow: this is the way it is done. There is no way to improve on a perfect copy!! I guess you could use some other application besides Scenalyzer to control the copy operation, but Scenalyzer is so much better than any other DV application ever created, that I see no reason to consider other alternatives, especially now that Scenalyzer is free.

Once again, at the risk of repeating myself, you can use this same setup to capture your analog Hi8 tapes by playing them from the same Digital 8 camcorder. Since they are analog and do not contain any metadata, that information is not there to be transferred. Also, unlike DV which is already digital, when transferring analog tapes from the Digital 8 camcorder, that analog video must be converted to digital. This is done by the DV compression chip in your camcorder. There are other workflows that have been discussed in this thread which can provide an improvement in quality compared to having the video compressed using the DV codec. The only question is to whether this improvement is significant and whether you or other people will notice. You have heard both sides of that argument in this thread, and it you are unsure of what to do, I suggest you do your own test: just capture 2-3 minute of one of your Hi8 tapes using the DV/Firewire method, and then capture the same thing using the BlackMagic box. Line both captures up in your NLE and do an A/B between them. Do this first while paused on an individual frame, and also while playing. You should mostly be focusing on compression artifacts (like mosquito noise around harsh light/dark transitions in the frame), color quality and saturation, and problems with fine detail like chain link fences.

I have already offered my opinion on what you will find with these tests: there are differences, but given the poor color quality stored on consumer analog tapes, and the extremely low resolution, the small differences are overwhelmed by the poor quality of the analog video, and don't really make a difference that is important.

[smrpix]

Does Hi8 video captured via Firewire 400 of an Digital8-device also contain the date and timecode like my captures from my old MiniDV-Camcorder?

The answer is it might. You'll have to test with your own gear to see if it works for you.

[Anonymous2317]

Hi guys, I'm glad I found this discussion and I really hope that someone is going to see my reply.

I tried to transfer a minidv with Scenalyzer using a firewire 400 cable: everything works just fine.

What's my problem? I recorded the same minidv two time: the first avi is of 1,902,849,454 bytes, the second of 1,902,700,134 bytes. Why does this happen if it is a bit-to-bit transfer?

[lollo]

Hi guys, I'm glad I found this discussion and I really hope that someone is going to see my reply.

I tried to transfer a minidv with Scenalyzer using a firewire 400 cable: everything works just fine.

What's my problem? I recorded the same minidv two time: the first avi is of 1,902,849,454 bytes, the second of 1,902,700,134 bytes. Why does this happen if it is a bit-to-bit transfer?

What does the SCLive report says? Any dropped frame in the two captures? Any "Video Error Concealment" reported?

[dellsam34]

Theoretically, if your tapes are pristine, heads are clean you should get the same dump, But it is rarely the case, tape drop outs, possible frame drop or insertion due to system/CPU/HDD overload, heads clog ...etc. If you are anal about preserving the original data bit by bit check out DV rescue project for multi-pass transfer. For most of tapes such as home videos is not worth it, If you are doing forensic or archiving of very rare footage then maybe worth a shot.

[johnmeyer]

You are simply seeing a slight difference in when the tape starts and stops. If the video has any gaps, which happens all the time when the tape in the camcorder sits for days or weeks between taping, it can take the deck a few frames to reacquire the digital stream. You can then end up with a frame missing in one capture that gets picked up in another capture. No big deal.

[clashradio]

I've been wondering if capturing the raw RF signal via Domesday Duplicator would be an improvement? Isn't there a 5:1 compression ratio when you copy the tapes to a PC via Firewire?

[dellsam34]

Not for the native DV/D8, those tapes are pure digital and cannot be detected by the VHS-decode, For V8/Hi8 tapes yes, But this project is a work in progress, it is not a final product yet, knowledge in scripting is required as well as soldering and PCB assembly skills.

[clashradio]

I know there is debate on capturing via Firewire to keep it digital, or via S-video analog 10-bit uncompressed as far as better quality goes. I was thinking if you were to treat miniDV like you were capturing analog, like the Domesday users do for vhs if that would be better.

[lordsmurf]

Re-read the above:

Not for the native DV/D8, those tapes are pure digital and cannot be detected by the VHS-decode, For V8/Hi8 tapes yes, But this project is a work in progress, it is not a final product yet, knowledge in scripting is required as well as soldering and PCB assembly skills.

No.

[lollo]

I know there is debate on capturing via Firewire to keep it digital, or via S-video analog 10-bit uncompressed as far as better quality goes.

The signal on tape is a digital DV stream. The best quality is to capture it as "it is", via Firewire. All the rest is lower quality.