The PC is Dead

[PuzZLeR]

Microsoft released the Pocket PC 2000 in the year 2000. If you count PDAs, tablets are even older than that.

Oh no.

What is with you UQ that you tend to bring up some of my vents?

I totally remember the PDA. I spent like $500 for an HP Jornada 540 back in 2000ish. Back then it was real neat. I did my homework on it. I had my grocery list on it - WORD, EXCEL, etc on it. I had my agenda on it. I would read LIT books, play a game or listen to music - it would do lots and lots and lots of things that were unheard of on a tiny mobile then.

But the criticism (or shall I call it jealousy?) I would have to endure, "geek", "loser", "get a life", "digital books are stupid", etc., etc., yaddy-yah, took away some of the enjoyment in having it. And now, when I see almost everyone around me, even the same critics of then, diddling on their phone 10 hours a day, even reading an e-book on it, I have developed a form of "phone rage".

They have the nerve to tell me, "No. This is different....". Ha ha ha.

But just to keep things in perspective, I have always considered the PDA to be "secondary" and only for convenience and mobility, never a substitute for my desktop PC(s). Same with a phone today.

And the PDA's death is understandable since the phone evolved.

But the then-tablet's death wasn't due to a replacement at all. It just simply died. And it looks like it's gonna die again.

Tablets/mobiles are nice IMO, but long live the real deal - the desktop PC.

[hello_hello]

Well i use a sledgehammer on my tablet when i try and post with it since it can get fidgety.

One thing I liked about my old Windows Mobile phone was the slide out keyboard. You probably can't buy a phone like that today, but I much preferred it to an onscreen keyboard. The thought of using something like that exclusively instead of a PC seems quite ridiculous though.

That phone was first sold about ten years ago (time flies) and while today's phones tend to have bigger screens and run an OS more suited to a mobile device (and far less prone to locking up than Windows Mobile), ten years later they're still not really doing anything new.

Dopod 838Pro

[El Heggunte]

...........

They have the nerve to tell me, "No. This is different....". Ha ha ha.

But they are right. In the good old days, there was no Yahoo! Answers, no Twitter, no Facebook, no Instagram, no Pinterest, no Google+, ......

[PuzZLeR]

...........

They have the nerve to tell me, "No. This is different....". Ha ha ha.

But they are right. In the good old days, there was no Yahoo! Answers, no Twitter, no Facebook, no Instagram, no Pinterest, no Google+, ......

Maybe you're right.

It IS different. I was productive and they're zombies.

Especially since I don't use any of the above. (Ok, maybe Yahoo! Answers for a bit a few years ago... but this is different. )

[SameSelf]

Some people struggle with new technology (although calling touchscreen phones new tech in 2016 is approaching ludicrous). Some of the more vocal posters on this forum appear to fall into this group. If you listen long enough, you might be tempted to believe the general population thinks similarly.

I bemoan all the time the loss of oral tradition and the decline of poetry. In my day, every teenager was expected to be able to recite from memory and with ease several thousand verses of Ovid's works. Now, they can't even recite a couple of "sentences" from those newfangled "books" that they "read". What is this world coming to?

[PuzZLeR]

I bemoan all the time the loss of oral tradition and the decline of poetry. In my day, every teenager was expected to be able to recite from memory and with ease several thousand verses of Ovid's works. Now, they can't even recite a couple of "sentences" from those newfangled "books" that they "read". What is this world coming to?

Now they just go to Google so they can cite their poetry lyrics.

Kinda cheapens the whole concept now.

Some people struggle with new technology (although calling touchscreen phones new tech in 2016 is approaching ludicrous). Some of the more vocal posters on this forum appear to fall into this group. If you listen long enough, you might be tempted to believe the general population thinks similarly.

Huh? This Forum?

[SameSelf]

I bemoan all the time the loss of oral tradition and the decline of poetry. In my day, every teenager was expected to be able to recite from memory and with ease several thousand verses of Ovid's works. Now, they can't even recite a couple of "sentences" from those newfangled "books" that they "read". What is this world coming to?

Now they just go to Google so they can cite their poetry lyrics.

Kinda cheapens the whole concept now.

How dare you equate "googling" Ovid to reciting him from memory. Be gone you heathen!

[usually_quiet]

Some people struggle with new technology (although calling touchscreen phones new tech in 2016 is approaching ludicrous). Some of the more vocal posters on this forum appear to fall into this group. If you listen long enough, you might be tempted to believe the general population thinks similarly.

Criticizing this forum as being technologically challenged puts you off topic again. You still have nothing to say about the sales data contained in my linked pages?

I posted the 4th quarter sales figures, since you seemed to think tablets would do much better than PCs in the 4th quarter. It appears tablets did worse than PCs in the last quarter instead, as predicted.

The information for the full year is available in my links as well. IDC reported the number of tablets shipped worldwide in 2015 fell 10.1% from a year earlier to 206.8 million. IDC also reported that the number of PCs shipped worldwide in 2015 fell to 276.2 million, down 10.4% from last year. For the full year, PCs outsold tablets and the sales of both declined by almost the same percentage, as predicted. ...and yet the PC is dead, but not the tablet.

[SameSelf]

Criticizing this forum as being technologically challenged puts you off topic again. You still have nothing to say about the sales data contained in my linked pages?

Just returning the favor.

My big mistake was replying to this flame-war-bait topic in the first place. From now on I'll just ignore anything that you write.

[usually_quiet]

Criticizing this forum as being technologically challenged puts you off topic again. You still have nothing to say about the sales data contained in my linked pages?

Just returning the favor.

My big mistake was replying to this flame-war-bait topic in the first place. From now on I'll just ignore anything that you write.

Obviously I gave you a second chance. Will you return that favor as well?

However, since you seem to come here mainly to stir the shitpot, you should expect the other members here to see to it that you get to lick the spoon when you do.

[Steve(MS)]

Some people struggle with new technology (although calling touchscreen phones new tech in 2016 is approaching ludicrous). Some of the more vocal posters on this forum appear to fall into this group. If you listen long enough, you might be tempted to believe the general population thinks similarly.

I bemoan all the time the loss of oral tradition and the decline of poetry. In my day, every teenager was expected to be able to recite from memory and with ease several thousand verses of Ovid's works. Now, they can't even recite a couple of "sentences" from those newfangled "books" that they "read". What is this world coming to?

You're clearly losing touch with reality, time for your psychiatrist to up the dosage on your meds.

[hello_hello]

I haven't seen such selective discussing of a topic since newpball. Replying to the few things that suit an argument and ignoring everything else. SameSelf seems to want to reduce his credibility to zero.

Some people struggle with new technology (although calling touchscreen phones new tech in 2016 is approaching ludicrous). Some of the more vocal posters on this forum appear to fall into this group. If you listen long enough, you might be tempted to believe the general population thinks similarly.

Which posters here seem to be struggling with new technology? Can you provide an example, because to me it seems like a lie. I've been a relatively vocal poster here, and I've been using a portable device such as a Windows Mobile phone since before the iphone. I'm sure almost everyone here uses a portable device in one form or another.

One poster here is advocating the death of the PC due to the portable device usage becoming exclusive. If you read this thread, you might be tempted to believe not a single person in the general population agrees with him.

[PuzZLeR]

You're clearly losing touch with reality, time for your psychiatrist to up the dosage on your meds.

Actually, it's sheer raw cannibalism.

I'd like to congratulate SameSelf for a First. In all my years in forums I've never seen someone actually trolling their own thread.

[SameSelf]

Let me break this down for those who are unable to understand. Some have stated posting on this forum from a PC is easier than a mobile device. Others accuse me of hijacking/trolling my own thread because I tried to have a little fun with it. To me the implication is clear, "The PC will never die because I can't stand posting here using my _______." I call BS.

[filmboss80]

Let me break this down for those who are unable to understand. Some have stated posting on this forum from a PC is easier than a mobile device. Others accuse me of hijacking/trolling my own thread because I tried to have a little fun with it. To me the implication is clear, "The PC will never die because I can't stand posting here using my _______." I call BS.

You call BS due to your narrow, presumptive thinking. This is a video forum. As has been repeatedly stated, PC workstations are, quite simply, the best tools to edit, process, and convert video. PC workstations efficiently handle complex graphics. PC workstations are best for complex audio composition and mixing. My bunch own tablets and laptops for general mobility purposes, but we do all the big work on PCs; not because we are backwards knuckle-draggers who can't handle progress, but because we are commonsense professionals who use the most effective tools for the job.

Your constant emotional need to somehow present yourself as more clever than others on this site is backfiring miserably. Perhaps you should take a step back and do some deep self-assessment as to why you feel so compelled to react the way you do. Your thin-skinned, overreaching need to appear superior leaves the rest of us convinced you are nothing more than an irritating know-it-all wannabe who actually knows quite little.

Please get help. I wish you well.

[usually_quiet]

Let me break this down for those who are unable to understand. Some have stated posting on this forum from a PC is easier than a mobile device. Others accuse me of hijacking/trolling my own thread because I tried to have a little fun with it. To me the implication is clear, "The PC will never die because I can't stand posting here using my _______." I call BS.

The fact that some members who have both a PC and a mobile device of some kind find that they prefer using their PC for web browsing to using a tablet or a smart phone for web browsing is hardly irrelevant to the discussion nor is it likely to be a lie. The stated reason for the preference is a the availability of a larger screen or a full-sized real keyboard. Mobile devices typically have small screens and users are often expected to use an on-screen keyboard.

Many people appear to prefer large screens to small ones. Monitors keep getting larger. Maybe you haven't noticed, but smart phones and especially tablets are also getting bigger.

Most people who learned to type using all their fingers on a real keyboard do find them more efficient than thumb typing or hunting and pecking on their mobile device's on screen keyboard. The tablet sector that is doing best in the current market has a detachable keyboard as well as a larger screen than most tablets. When doing my holiday shopping, I also noticed tablet covers with a built-in Bluetooth keyboard being sold as tablet accessories. Funny how some people buy a tablet and subsequently find it necessary convert it into a laptop. Maybe some eventually decide they ought to have bought a laptop in the first place.

[SameSelf]

You guys need to go back and read (or re-read) the posts in this forum. I laid out in my OP that I was speaking specifically about desktop computers, not laptops nor workstations. So coming on here and equating laptops, workstations, or anything with a detachable keyboard, to the desktop is crap. All I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I didn't state it earlier, but glenpinn provided some real world insight on user behavior that is based on more than just what he owns:

everything i say is based on real world experiences...As for insulting people for using a laptop as a primary editing machine, well DUDE, you best not go into some of the video production companies and see what many of those professionals are using, because i can tell you right now Dude, many are not using desktop computers any more, many are using high end Macbooks, or windows based work stations, some attached to docks using large full HD and 4k external screens, and what about 3D modelling, many are now using the very same Macs and laptops for this type of work as well.

Please note: emphasis is mine.

[filmboss80]

You guys need to go back and read (or re-read) the posts in this forum. I laid out in my OP that I was speaking specifically about desktop computers, not laptops nor workstations. So coming on here and equating laptops, workstations, or anything with a detachable keyboard, to the desktop is crap. All I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Oh, I'll go beyond the workstation (which was merely the most common example for forum members here) and testify that I've recently built PCs as base stations for home and business. New PC components are coming out all the time.

As for closely rereading all the posts here, you are out of your flipping mind. Since most of us have lives, one can only make a quick scan of the six forum pages thus far, as it appears you've been all over the place, trying to cover your tracks with all the excessively verbose diatribes. The vast majority of the "BLAH BLAH BLAH" has come straight from you. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." I'm pretty sure we've all reached the point where the only person who wants to hear you weigh in on any subject is yourself.

[SameSelf]

It is sad that I have to do this. Now take your personal attacks elsewhere.

Apple's Tim Cook has said as much according the this link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/11984806/Apples-Tim-Cook-declares-the-end-...l-product.html

So, are the reports of the PC's death greatly exaggerated? People said the PC would kill the mainframe too, not so. It is hard getting a good sense of whether there is any weight to Cook's remarks. My efforts to read a journalists' takes on the topic have been fruitless. So here is my take. Full disclosure: I am a PC guy, so my thoughts aren't some biased rant against PCs. In fact quite the opposite, more like a sad farewell to an old friend.

First, what exactly does Tim Cook mean by the PC? My guess is he is talking about the desktop form factor most typically found perched on top or below someone's desk with an attached monitor and keyboard/mouse. I think it is a fair question to ask, "What purpose does such a form factor serve in the consumer space?" To use the thing, you gotta go to it. You can't take it with you to the couch, bed, loo, coffeeshop, etc. Contrast that with your favorite mobile device and desktops look uber-inconvenient.

But, you say, I can't be as productive with my favorite mobile device. The screen is too small, the keyboard is cramped, the thing is slow. If I need to get real work done like encoding a video, I use my desktop. Look, you are preaching to the choir here. I get it. Mobile devices are great for lightweight tasks like watching streaming video, surfing the web, checking email. For serious work, the desktop is the only realistic option. Or is it?

And here is where my thoughts differ markedly from the talking heads.

The single, biggest signal that the desktop market is dying is that the mobile space is starting to overtake the desktop space. What do I mean? Two examples.

First, pcie ssd's. When ssd's first came out, they used the same SATA interface that regular hard drives used. It didn't take long for ssd manufacturers to saturate the SATA bus and it looked for a time that SATA Express would be the next generation protocol for even faster ssd speeds. But that was so 2013. Fast forward to October 2015, Samsung unveils an ssd that uses the pcie interface and SATA Express is dead. Why is this relevant? Well, the pcie ssd actually was borrowed from the mobile space. The first pcie ssd appeared in ultrabooks more than two years ago. Many new, desktop motherboards sport the M.2 connector which makes no sense on a desktop because it lays flat or flush with the PCB versus perpendicular like a pcie card. Also, don't think for a second that you can just grab one of these beasts and pop it into a spare pcie slot. Unless you have the latest chipsets, you won't be able to boot from the device. Bottomline, the pcie ssd is a mobile technology. Watching it find its way into the desktop space over the last two years is like watching paint dry. Very frustrating for those of us used to cutting edge technology driving the desktop space.

Second, Intel has been forced to devote more R&D to mobile in order to compete head-on with ARM. The results of this strategy are most poignantly felt in the Broadwell CPU series. Released over a year ago, the first SKUs were the low-power, low performance Core M chips designed specifically for mobile devices. The arms race for faster clocks and more cores is over. The war is now about reducing power consumption to save battery life. Something the desktop user hardly needs to worry about. In fact, it looked for a time that Intel might skip over desktop sku's for Broadwell and make Skylake the desktop refresh.

What does all this mean? First, the demand for computing has swung from desktops to mobile devices. Second, the capital for R&D has flowed there as well. As a result, the market for desktops has shrunk both from a demand perspective and from a R&D capital perspective. I am not a prophet, but I think it is highly possible that Skylake could be the last desktop refresh for a long time.

In the mean time, tablets, phones, laptops will get more and more powerful and soon the desktop will look like an antiquated device unable to keep up.

So long my desktop friend. You will be missed.

I purposely avoided wading into the workstation space for brevity. But since you bring it up I guess I need to say a few words.

What I see happening is that mobile devices, and let me be clear here, when I say mobile I mean smartphones, tablets, laptops, ultrabooks and any device that doesn't look like the boxy desktop. But I digress. What I see happening is that mobile devices will get more powerful e.g. the iPad Pro going on sale tomorrow and starting at $799. Another example is the Microsoft Surface Pro series. Mobile offers more margin for companies than the desktop. Mobile gets more of the capital for R&D spending. Power users will get served by the workstation market, and the humble desktop will get squeezed and begin to look like some utilitarian device akin to a toaster that few companies will fully support.

Here in the US, there are 2 million AOL dial-up subscribers still paying US$20 per month to watch a webpage take ten minutes to load....what does an AOL dial-up account offer those users in 2015 over what it offered them in 1995? Answer: Nothing. Dial-up AOL is like a time capsule or a snapshot from a bygone era for 320 million Americans.

The desktop PC is suffering the same fate. Progress is slowing and this is key: slowing relative to mobile. I outlined two concrete examples explaining how mobile is now driving the technology in the desktop. The slowing will accelerate until desktop PCs become frozen in time, like dial-up AOL. The only people buying desktops in 2030 will be those that need to replace their 2020 era machine. But that 2030 box won't be marginally any different than the 10-year-old box being replaced.

If you want horsepower beyond what can be found in 2030's ubiquitous computing device, my guess is it will be a workstation. But a workstation is not a desktop both in the components under the hood and in the users manufacturers target. Thus, I am purposely separating the two in this analysis.

I do not believe desktop CPUs or GPUs will find their way into tablets or laptops. But this is not about shoe-horning desktop architecture into mobile devices. This is about how consumer demand has swung to mobile and along with that, the capital for R&D is leaving the desktop behind.

The fact that you have yet to replace your 2008 era PC is a prime reason the desktop market is dying. Manufacturers need you replace your PC more often than that. I mean, what is it going to take for you to buy a new PC at this point? Who is going to kick the bucket the first? You or your PC? And even if it does die first, are you 100% certain that you will buy another? Why not replace it with a laptop if that is the best thing on the market when you finally do? It is very possible when that time comes, you will look around at what is offered in the desktop market and realize that it will be more of a compromise than not. The market is showing signs of heading in that direction. That is all I am saying.

[usually_quiet]

You guys need to go back and read (or re-read) the posts in this forum. I laid out in my OP that I was speaking specifically about desktop computers, not laptops nor workstations. So coming on here and equating laptops, workstations, or anything with a detachable keyboard, to the desktop is crap. All I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I didn't state it earlier, but glenpinn provided some real world insight on user behavior that is based on more than just what he owns:

everything i say is based on real world experiences...As for insulting people for using a laptop as a primary editing machine, well DUDE, you best not go into some of the video production companies and see what many of those professionals are using, because i can tell you right now Dude, many are not using desktop computers any more, many are using high end Macbooks, or windows based work stations, some attached to docks using large full HD and 4k external screens, and what about 3D modelling, many are now using the very same Macs and laptops for this type of work as well.

Please note: emphasis is mine.

I am certainly well aware of what you wrote in your initial post. You asked us to weigh in on what Cook said as well as what you said. Some of us bothered to read the link to find out what Cook said for ourselves rather than trusting you to interpret that correctly. Good thing too. You stated that Cook said the desktop alone is dead, but what he actually said was that both notebook and desktop PCs were dead, and all most people really need is their phone and a tablet.

What you actually said, emphasis mine.

Apple's Tim Cook has said as much according the this link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/11984806/Apples-Tim-Cook-declares-the-end-...l-product.html

So, are the reports of the PC's death greatly exaggerated? People said the PC would kill the mainframe too, not so. It is hard getting a good sense of whether there is any weight to Cook's remarks. My efforts to read a journalists' takes on the topic have been fruitless. So here is my take. Full disclosure: I am a PC guy, so my thoughts aren't some biased rant against PCs. In fact quite the opposite, more like a sad farewell to an old friend.

First, what exactly does Tim Cook mean by the PC? My guess is he is talking about the desktop form factor most typically found perched on top or below someone's desk with an attached monitor and keyboard/mouse..

What Cook actually said, emphasis mine.

“I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?”, asks Tim Cook, Apple’s chief executive, who has just flown into Britain for the launch of the iPad Pro. Cook, whose spotless tailored suit and red poppy belies the fact that he spent the night in a plane, is clearly in ebullient mood. Wall Street and the City are obsessed with the iPhone, the company’s dominant product, but Apple appears quietly confident that its new tablet and TV device are going to help power the company’s continuing growth.

“Yes, the iPad Pro is a replacement for a notebook or a desktop for many, many people. They will start using it and conclude they no longer need to use anything else, other than their phones,”Cook argues

Also industry analysts rarely differentiate between desktop and laptop sales in their reports, including the Gartner report you quoted as supporting your position. Both are lumped together under PCs.

Now you claim that high-end desktops don't count as desktops nor do high end laptops count as laptops. They are both simply workstations.

Plus glenpinn is an expert source now because he has seen some video production companies at work and agrees with you, but filmboss80, who as I recall, actually runs a video production company, and does not agree with you has no idea what goes on in his industry. Oh brother!

It takes a lot of gall to keep changing the rules and then claim we all misunderstood what you were doing in this thread.

[hello_hello]

I know a couple of people who use a laptop instead of a desktop. Maybe more than a couple if I think about it. Mind you those people never really needed a desktop. They needed a more portable type of PC with a large hard drive, and lots of memory, and a fast CPU..... just like a desktop. Back in the day a laptop that rivaled a PC wasn't cheap. You can of course buy "budget" laptops now, but they at least have enough hard drive space and RAM these days to be semi useful. You don't need the latest and best to check your email any more. At least two of the people I know will probably never buy a desktop again. They're happy with a laptop. Does it mean the PC is dead? Of course not. I know people who've never owned a computer, but the PC industry somehow survived.

No, I do not believe desktop CPUs or GPUs will find their way into tablets or laptops.

If you're going to be wrong, it's good you're at least being consistently wrong.

Desktop CPUs certainly found their way into laptops, at least for a while. That's probably one of the factors that made budget laptops less expensive. Either that or the desktop CPUs were faster. I haven't paid a lot of attention to laptop CPUs.

10 seconds with Google is all it took for me to find a laptop with a desktop CPU. I guess that's another SameSelf theory falling apart, so no doubt he'll ignore the link.

Origin beastly new EON laptops boast full-blown desktop Core i7 processors

But since you are eager to bring your personal use case into this, I will bite, if only to make a point. The fact that you have yet to replace your 2008 era PC is a prime reason the desktop market is dying. Manufacturers need you replace your PC more often than that.

It's fun to just make stuff up isn't it? What information do you have from manufacturers to indicate they need me to replace my PC more often?
It completely ignores the fact that PCs are upgradable anyway. Not too many devices are. Laptops aren't very upgradable. Tablets, not at all. So why is the fate of the PC industry determined by the interval between my PC builds when I've spent a reasonable amount of money in the mean time buying desktop components? Hard drives, PCI Express cards, video cards, a new monitor etc, but if I don't put all of the new components in a new case at the same time more regularly, apparently it's all over for the desktop. I'm probably going to re-use an old case when I build a new PC. I'll probably re-use a power supply. I hope the PC industry can battle on....

I'll probably wait at least 10 years before upgrading my Plasma, which means I've got about five and a half years to go. Did you ever work out why a product such as a TV isn't dead despite it not being terribly upgradable and generally replaced less often than a PC? Or did you confabulate a special theory for desktops that doesn't apply to any other products, for reasons you're yet to share with the class.

.....but I think it is highly possible that Skylake could be the last desktop refresh for a long time.

That's on a par with "640k is enough memory for anyone".

[PuzZLeR]

Regarding Apple and CEO Tim Cook: I would not listen to him or to Apple any more. Like I said in post #63: "You know what? Ever since I stopped listening to Apple my life is better. So will everybody else'es life too.", there was no sarcasm.

Apple is a marketing giant, and it was how they, not only grew, but, survived, many decades ago. And "marketing" is not delivering facts - it's a method, a "paint job" on image, branding, message, etc, to get you to buy something.

They've twisted many things over the years - I still remember how many people were thinking that H.264 was "the Apple codec" some years ago. Even "QuickTime Compatibility" was a method of purposely reducing the decoding of H.264 features (b-pyramid, refs, etc) to simulate a creation of a "standard within a standard". Either that, or bad programming or bad hardware. I remember when QuickTime Compatibility extended to high profile, and Apple announced, "Updates to the H.264 codec" - further securing an impression of H.264 ownership, which actually worked for many years in the consumer-sphere as a "buzz word".

Over time, they've cleverly played the skimming for the higher price tag, the niche game, the "cool factor" being the indie computer, the art thing, the music and tunes thing, the mobile movement, the mini wares, the video box, etc, etc., very profitably. From a marketer's perspective, I have to give them full credit for being brilliant and mastering the concept, especially since most of these products actually sucked, and were really NOT cool. But they hid that well too among the masses, and even sold it for more. Again, brilliant. Even kids, with no money, found a way to get in debt, all just to have something with a piece of bitten fruit on it.

And everything every Apple employee - all the way up the chain to Mr.Cook himself - says is calculated - a formula, and a plan. Yes, the marketing again. But, in truth, they are master manipulators. They have successfully ruined a complete generation, all while making them believe they are doing the right thing, and "feeling good". It's amazing what Apple can do.

They've even made being in the 5%-10% of the desktop market look like they're winning.

If "the PC is dead" one day, I will bet it will be due to a successful plan from Apple. After all, they've even intimidated Microsoft to the point where they put out some bad O/Ses. I truly believe, for example, Vista and 8.0, were the result of Microsoft feeling the pressure and trying to do "something Apple-like". And it worked to Apple's benefit to a large degree to leverage them further into other markets.

If you feel good buying Apple products, and listening to their noise, then go ahead. Although I admire their acheivements, and would recommend them as a marketing lesson, I just would rather tune them out from a personal perspective when it's time to do what works best for me instead.

[SameSelf]

I'll probably wait at least 10 years before upgrading my Plasma, which means I've got about five and a half years to go. Did you ever work out why a product such as a TV isn't dead despite it not being terribly upgradable and generally replaced less often than a PC? Or did you confabulate a special theory for desktops that doesn't apply to any other products, for reasons you're yet to share with the class.

It is easy to get confused about all of this. I am talking about desktops versus laptops, tablets, etc. which all basically do the same thing. If you want to make an analogy to your Plasma TV, go right ahead. But at least get it right:

Me: The Plasma is dead.
You: No it's not. I own a Plasma.
Me: So?
You: So, people still buy TVs.
Me: Never said people people don't buy TVs anymore.
You: Did you ever work out why a product such as a computer isn't dead?
Me: If you want to make an analogy to your computer....

[SameSelf]

You asked us to weigh in on what Cook said as well as what you said.

I am not interested in parsing Tim Cook's words lest I be accused of being a fanboi. The whole point of my OP was to posit my opinion and the trends that I have observed, independent of Cook.

FWIW, I re-posted my earlier comments for filmboss80's benefit who complained about having a life and thus no time to read through the thread because even I have limited bandwidth for everything that has been posted.

[_Al_]

PC's are still being sold and will be, just gamers seam to propel sales a lot. Gaming is the future, everyone wants to play. Play stations does not seam to be that powerful, they aim in that sweet spot power/price. So whatever stations are going to be made of and whatever technology it still would be PC even if it is going to have different name or label. Can you imagine what calculations there has to be done for some real smooth, real texture virtual output? It needs to be cooled down. There might not be a 50 million stations but 100000. Does that mean it is dead? What number is decisive to say it is dead? When some CEO says so? And my idea is this, if this real texture renders get really advanced, who says that is not going to be picked up by something else (3D viewing of things over wire even movie, health department etc?) because it will be called differently does that mean PC is dead and behold, HC (home center) is born?
And how about those PC's for work, any sort of work , they will stop calling them PC because only 100.000 people use them not 50 million?

If plasma is dead does not mean TV is dead, and behold, new OLED, new TV, you can roll it out on a wall! But ehm ..., just put electronics, somewhere else into extra box or just into receiver AND ehm..., you need extra speakers for sure!

What are you arguing about is getting more weird, just wording.

[usually_quiet]

I am not interested in parsing Tim Cook's words lest I be accused of being a fanboi. The whole point of my OP was to posit my opinion and the trends that I have observed, independent of Cook.

This explanation lacks credibility. Positing your opinion independent of Cook would not require posting a link to an article about him, and then stating he backs up your opinion. Of course you aren't interested in parsing what Cook said, although not because you are afraid of being called a fanboi. You were caught misrepresenting facts and don't want to admit it.

If a dead product means a product that is no longer being made, desktops are far from that. Desktop PCs are still being made in great numbers and in several form-factors. If a dead product means a product that is no longer being researched and developed, Intel and AMD have not announced that they are going to end R&D related to desktop CPUs.

[PuzZLeR]

I am not interested in parsing Tim Cook's words lest I be accused of being a fanboi. The whole point of my OP was to posit my opinion and the trends that I have observed, independent of Cook.

Does that mean it [the PC] is dead? What number is decisive to say it is dead? When some CEO says so?

Positing your opinion independent of Cook would not require posting a link to an article about him, and then stating he backs up your opinion.

Interesting that just because a guy like Tim Cook says "The PC is Dead" it should roll over and die. And who's would be the similar opinion independent of Cook's? Maybe Google, and them regarding their Chromebook - an abomination disguised as a "computer".

The hope of the PC's health, and the future of good computing, and better options for professionals, and for those that want options beyond those of the average consumers, and of course gamers, all depends on who, or how many, will actually listen to garbage from people like Tim Cook, and similar poisons from the industry.

I still remain:

"You know what? Ever since I stopped listening to Apple my life is better. So will everybody else'es life too."

[SameSelf]

This explanation lacks credibility. Positing your opinion independent of Cook would not require posting a link to an article about him, and then stating he backs up your opinion.

You seriously either lack reading comprehension or are just trolling. Re-read the quote below that I stated up front in the OP. I am finished defending myself against strawman arguments.

So here is my take.

[SameSelf]

PC's are still being sold and will be, just gamers seam to propel sales a lot. Gaming is the future, everyone wants to play. Play stations does not seam to be that powerful, they aim in that sweet spot power/price. So whatever stations are going to be made of and whatever technology it still would be PC even if it is going to have different name or label. Can you imagine what calculations there has to be done for some real smooth, real texture virtual output? It needs to be cooled down. There might not be a 50 million stations but 100000. Does that mean it is dead? What number is decisive to say it is dead? When some CEO says so? And my idea is this, if this real texture renders get really advanced, who says that is not going to be picked up by something else (3D viewing of things over wire even movie, health department etc?) because it will be called differently does that mean PC is dead and behold, HC (home center) is born?
And how about those PC's for work, any sort of work , they will stop calling them PC because only 100.000 people use them not 50 million?

If plasma is dead does not mean TV is dead, and behold, new OLED, new TV, you can roll it out on a wall! But ehm ..., just put electronics, somewhere else into extra box or just into receiver AND ehm..., you need extra speakers for sure!

What are you arguing about is getting more weird, just wording.

1. I already commented about gaming. See quote below.
2. What do Plasma's have to do with any of this? I never said they were dead. Maybe you should start a new thread? It might be just as much fun as this one

Because very few programs are cpu bound anymore. And programmers are focused on developing apps for phones and tablets rather than the PC. And when those programs finally get ported to a PC, the power of the PC is never fully exploited. Chris Roberts, the famed Wing Commander game designer, recently crowd-sourced the funding of his upcoming game, Star Citizen, instead of partnering with a publisher. When asked why, he stated that publishers today are focused on making games that can be sold/played on as many devices as possible: PCs, consoles, tablets, phones, streaming, etc. The net effect is the dumbing down of games versus the days of yore when you had buy the biggest, baddest cpu/gpu/ram combo you could afford just to play it. Mr. Roberts's goal is to specifically rekindle the mania of PC gaming by purposely not porting his game to consoles and other devices. Similarly, many are hoping the Oculus Rift and VR can re-invigorate the declining PC market. I would say the jury is still very much out on whether either Chris Roberts or VR will be successful. To me, these represent more of a barrier to entry than anything else. For better or for worse, ARM and SoCs, or RISC-based designs versus x86 or CISC-based designs, have changed how we think about computing.

[usually_quiet]

This explanation lacks credibility. Positing your opinion independent of Cook would not require posting a link to an article about him, and then stating he backs up your opinion.

You seriously either lack reading comprehension or are just trolling. Re-read the quote below that I stated up front in the OP. I am finished defending myself against strawman arguments.

I suggest you join over at doom9 if you want to engage in formal debate. They take debate very seriously there. I predict that if you do join and pull the same childish crap in discussions there that you pull here, you will be banned within an few days, but not before they make a laughing stock of you.

So here is my take.

I already wrote that your "take" (in the near future all important technological advances will only happen on the mobile side and will never make it to the desktop) was silly. I spend a lot of time looking at motherboards and add on cards. mSATA connections were used on some mini ITX motherboards and I remember seeing PCI-e SSD add-on cards when I built my Haswell PC a couple of years ago. http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/plextor-m6e-pci-express-ssd-review,1.html Yes, M.2 is currently available on desktop motherboards as well as laptop motherboards. Being flat allows M.2 SSDs to occupy wasted space behind PCI-e X1 slots.

There is a lot of R&D involved in creating the most powerful desktop CPUs and GPUs, none of which have an equivalent that can be installed in a laptop or tablet. These products fill a want/need that some people are willing to pay big bucks to satisfy. At this point, there is no indication that the demand for these products is declining or that AMD, Intel and NVIDIA have decided that they are no longer interested in making them.

It really doesn't matter that games are often written to run on multiple platforms. There are still gamers interested in playing games displayed on a panoramic monitor wall or a 4K TV. Those who do and want the best possible experience use one or more truly massive video cards.

You really need to stop reading clickbait tech articles. Tech journalists have been predicting the impending death of the desktop for years, in spite of the fact that the number of computing devices in homes keeps expanding as does the diversity of available devices. There are even new desktop form factors, like NUCs. No one computing device fills every consumer's every need.

As a group, members here own desktops of all sizes, home media servers, NAS capable of running simple apps, smart phones, tablets, laptops, the Raspberry Pi (or similar teaching devices), Android TV boxes, and smart TVs. Mobility isn't a consideration for everyone who uses a computing device at home. Anyone who thinks that only smartphones , tablets and laptops will exist in the future has failed to recognize that.

[Edit]I did some more reasearch. Your prediction that laptops would get all the cutting edge technology, and desktops would be left out was based on M.2 SSD appearing on laptop motherboards first, in 2013. After a bit more Googling, I determined M.2 was a custom addition to the motherboard implemented by the makers of the Ultrabooks that had it, not a new feature that Intel built into Haswell ULT but omitted from the Haswell desktop chipsets available at the time. With a laptop, there really was no other choice than to add an M.2 port on the motherboard itself, but a desktop does not have the same limitations. Someone who really wanted to use an M.2 SSD in their desktop in 2013 could buy a PCI-e adapter that accepted an M.2 SSD.

Here is a page from 2013 article testing a Sony VAIO Ultrabook:
http://www.thessdreview.com/hardware/notebooks/sony-vaio-pro-13-ultrabook-native-pcie-...-speed-date/2/ Notice that the authors bought a PCI-e adapter and benchmarked the same M.2 SSD model used for the VAIO in a desktop system. The SSD functioned quite well using the adapter.