Startech USB3HDCAP opinions

[FLP437]

Hi

In this moment there are new drivers and capture software for the device that add some new features ,from Startech, USB3HDCAP_Driver Version: 1.1.0.160 and Capture_Software StreamCatcher Version: 1.1.0.160.5 http://sgcdn.startech.com/005329/media/sets/USB3HDCAP_Drivers/USB3HDCAP_Driver.zip
and from Micomsoft, Video Keeper2 Ver.1.1.0.160.5+ Driver Ver.1.1.0.160.6 http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xcapture-1_VideoKeeper2_i1.1.0.160.5.zip

Well that said I think I never experienced the same type of problems you are getting at least with the same intensity. First with a stable dvd svideo signal or with a full-frame tbc inserted I never had drop or inserted frames. With real vhs or video8 if the tape is not terrible I don´t usually get drop frames and I if I get they are very limited 1-5 per hour. Indeed the device is more prone to insert frames namely when there is a hiccup due to recording stop / restart but even in that situation is not frequent to have more then 20 but it´s dependent of recorded sections number on tape.I never got a no signal situation.

As I have told in the past framerate in settings below capture tab in virtualdub as a tendency to change values without notice from 25 to 50 and indeed if that situation occurs it drops and insert frames in large number. I have always to confirm that the right number 25 ( for PAL) it´s there.

However I usually get slightly best results ( in terms of insert frames ) on my laptops i5 3210M 2,5 Ghz /i5 4210U 1,7Ghz, 6/8 GB ram, 8GB+1Tb Hdd/ 512 GB ssd discs, usb3 intel controllers, windows 7 home /windows 8.1 home then in a recent desktop pc built ( asus z170, i7 6700k, 16 gb ddr4 3200, 2 SSD´s ( 256GB+ 1TB) + SSHD 2TB, usb3 intel controller, windows 7 pro what seems a little weird to me. In the laptops I have the previous drivers from micomsoft in one and from startech in the other and in the desktop I have the last one from startech (1.1.0.160 ).

My major problem has been the quality from the captured image . I recently managed to buy an ATi 600 usb ( it was hard to find ) and it seems the quality is a little better then from the startech for analog sources like vhs and video8 that´s what interest me in this moment, However I get more drop or inserted frames with the Ati then with the startech . I ´m getting about 40-50 inserted frames per hour with the ATI pen. It´s almost mandatory to use a full tbc . The video proc. Amp from the ATi is difficult to adjust the startech is much more easier and proportional .

However I have the impression that the inclusion off a full frame tbc like the avt-8710 degrades somewhat the picture , so I tried also with a dvd recorder in between instead of the avt-8710 .With test patterns from a dvd the image seems better with the dvd recorder in between then using a full external TBC however for real tapes I don’t see so much of a difference. I have put a thread in digitalfaq “Video8 capture improvement” 10-06-15 about this. I was also interested to identify if sound could get better bypassing the capture card and using instead the mobo line-in or sound card but I got no answers related to these situations.

I have a small device from audioquest called jitterbug that I use between a usb pc port and a DAC for digital audio improvement and which purpose is to clean noise and parasitic resonances due to computer generated pollution RFI and EMI on the signal and energy paths .Its supposed to reduce noise and interference and help reduce jitter and packet error. For digital audio at least with the same brand DAC its gives some results . So I have tried it with the ATI 600 usb ( it can be used only on a usb2 port, in a usb3 it reduces the throughput to a usb 2.0 equivalent). Well the capture device ( ATI 600 usb ) still worked and the captured image as more color and contrast but I have problems to decide if its really better .
I will put later a video8 capture sample with the last startech driver om my new desktop and the same capture with a ATI 600 usb with and without the jitterbug

[Brad]

In this moment there are new drivers and capture software for the device that add some new features ,from Startech, USB3HDCAP_Driver Version: 1.1.0.160 and Capture_Software StreamCatcher Version: 1.1.0.160.5 http://sgcdn.startech.com/005329/media/sets/USB3HDCAP_Drivers/USB3HDCAP_Driver.zip
and from Micomsoft, Video Keeper2 Ver.1.1.0.160.5+ Driver Ver.1.1.0.160.6 http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xcapture-1_VideoKeeper2_i1.1.0.160.5.zip

I did install the latter after my post. It mostly corrects the issue where I had to enable "Ignore video timestamps". There are 2-3 drops & inserts each at the start of an analog capture, and then it's stable. But the "NO SIGNAL" problem with tapes remains, and it actually introduced a new bug. Previously I could capture the HS-HD2000U's VCR menu without issue. Now it detects the menu as "1440x240p", and so if I try to capture it at 720x480 I just get an enlarged crop of the top-left corner.

The Audioquest device sounds like pseudo-scientific nonsense. No offence...

I suspect the quality advantage you're seeing with the ATI 600 is just a levels and/or saturation change, but I welcome the samples at any rate.

[FLP437]

I´m attaching two small video captures, one made with the Startech usb3hdcap device using the last driver from startech and the other made with the ATI HD 600 USB stick for results comparison.
The capture was made using a stable svideo signal source from a dvd player reproducing a set of test patterns.The sharpness as been set to 0 with the startech but with the ati I used sharpness=2 (the default) as putting the value=0 gives some discontinuities in the histogram.

[FLP437]

I have remarked that many users of USB3HDcap / X-Capture-1 use amarec and not virtualdub for captures. Is there any advantages in using amarec vs virtualdub or is the eventual advantage limited to games capture. I was interested to know if for analog svideo captures in a lossless format and digital hdmi captures amarec could present any advantage over virtualdub

[Brad]

Thanks for the samples.

ati I used sharpness=2 (the default) as putting the value=0 gives some discontinuities in the histogram.

I don't get discontinuities with sharpness set to 0. For me that only happens if I change the ATI 600's contrast (or saturation for chroma); see here to confirm whether those luma histograms look okay to you. And I actually see discontinuities in your ATI 600 capture's histogram, anyhow. We must be talking about different things.

The sharpness is definitely too low on the USB3HDCAP; the ATI 600 very obviously shows more luma detail. Perhaps the setting works differently for PAL. How about a capture at the default of 32?

The horizontal chroma resolution is much better on the USB3HDCAP, while the vertical chroma resolution is actually worse. The USB3HDCAP's chroma is shifted down by 1 line; this is easily corrected after capture.

The ATI 600 is clipping superblacks.

The luma is unstable on some of the ATI 600 test patterns, and chroma is unstable on some too. Crosstalk is visible on both luma & chroma in areas of solid color. Need better S-Video cable?

[FLP437]

With the Ati 600 usb I get significant histogram discontinuities when I use sharpness=0 or high contrast values ( they disappear for sharpness values equal or larger then 1 ). I’m including the histogram with this type of discontinuities I´m referring to. The startech doesn´t present this type of problem.

However with these test patterns it is somewhat difficult to get good results for all of them and simultaneous avoid clipping . The black borders around the main images don’t help too.

The vid proc amp in the ATI is more tricky to adjust as sometimes I don´t have a proportionally and evenly reaction to a change. The startech vid proc amp give more proportionally and evenly results when adjusting values.

However it´s seems easier with the ATI to get a set of values that give reasonable results for different scene contexts and the startech seems to need more specifically adjustments related to different scene patterns. If I do crop the black borders around the main images it gets easier to achieve better results.

It is only natural that there was some crosstalk in the past captures, as to avoid moving a dvd player I used a long (5m ) medium quality (vivanco ) s-video cable.

I have captured again with a short ( 1m ) and better quality ( QED QUNEX) s-video cable and the results seem better, I used also sharpness=32 (default) for the startech device and 1 ( default=2) for the ati device. I could be wrong but the results seem better for the ATI.

In the past I didn´t get this “no signal” startech problem but now I´m getting it too not always but sometimes. I don’t know If I have messed with some settings as in the past I never got it. However I tried amarecTV and this” no signal “ never happen with this software. As I have had some problems with some usb ports and controllers I tried different ones from intel and from asmedia but with virtualdub it appears to happens now randomly in different situations. However virtualdub doesn´t seem to have a clean start and stop (it seems to shake/pulsate with the on/off) .

I decided to try amarectv and with this product it never happened it seems also to have something to do with the capture software and not only with the startech.

The amarecTV as one thing interesting is that we can actually see on the fly the adjustments made through vid proc amp, however I don’t know how to identify clipping I was obliged to previous adjust in virtualdub the vid proc amp,as it retains the values for amarectv. It seems to work fine but we only have information about dropped frames not inserted frames . It seems also less prone to drop frames.

I will test with video8 and vhs to see if only for capturing it could be interesting. I tried also Virtual VCR and the ”no signal” problem shows again with this software. It also as 2 drop frames statistics for capture, dropframes1 that always as been 0 and dropframes2 (apparently more sensitive ) were I got a huge number even with a stable signal .

When I have a little more time I will try also the new miconsoft driver as it is marginally newer then the startech driver Ver.1.1.0.160.6 vs Ver.1.1.0.160.5

[jagabo]

The sharpness is definitely too low on the USB3HDCAP; the ATI 600 very obviously shows more luma detail.

A little more sharpness on the USB3hdcap might be better but the ATI cap is way over sharpened. It's full of over sharpening halos.

The horizontal chroma resolution is much better on the USB3HDCAP

In fact, it may be a little over sharp. But the ATI 600's chroma is very blurry. Didn't expect that.

[FLP437]

Only to clarify , related to the “no signal” problem when I said that virtualdub doesn´t seem to have a clean start / stop (it seems to shake/pulsate with the on/off) is that it seems that virtualdub could have a longer input lag and this problem could eventually be related with the capture program input lag and if amarectv as a shorter imput lag this could eventually be an explanation !..

Related to the capture settings
Ati 1th capture sharpness =2 , 2th capture sharpness =1
Startech 1th capture sharpness=0 , 2th capture sharpness=32
The other only difference as been a shorter and better s-video cable and eventually small changes in contrast /brightness due to this situation

[Brad]

The newer StarTech capture is still lacking in sharpness and has added overshoot.

[FLP437]

Thanks vaporeon800 for the info related to the sharpness issue.

I think you have also both devices, assuming that you have used /tested them more thoroughly then I and that for sure you are more experienced and knowledgeable in that area also, have you been able to define a profile/ advice for better use that take in account their particularities, that could give the better chances to good and successful captures with the usb3hdcap? use higher values for sharpness, etc.,

Also what is your personal opinion about analog captures ( vhs / video8 through s-video ) with these devices. In your opinion are one or another clear or marginally better for this purpose and why ?

Amarectv application do seems it don’t have the input lag / synchro initial recording /final stop problems could this software present any advantage over virtualdub only for capturing . I´m not considering ony this particularity.

Using any of this devices doesn’t avoid for me the need to use an external tbc or similar device as I usually get between 20 and 60 inserted frames per hour more in video8 then vhs as the first is usually live recorded video with more frequent discontinuities do to start /stop recordings.

I have tried two approaches the usually one with a full frame tbc the avt-8710, and the other with a DVD recorder (LG RH199Hs) in pass-through. Both solutions are able to completely eliminate lost or inserted frames, however I got the impression the image after using the avt is softer, but I´m unable to decide if one of them is better than the other.

Can any member of this forum help me deciding if one of them is better than the other .I´m attaching two samples.

[jagabo]

Also what is your personal opinion about analog captures ( vhs / video8 through s-video ) with these devices.

The difference in sharpness doesn't matter for VHS capture because VHS is inherently low resolution. Video8 has a little more resolution but I doubt you'll see any difference there either. Sharper caps may just lead to more noise.

[Brad]

I think you have also both devices ... have you been able to define a profile/ advice for better use that take in account their particularities, that could give the better chances to good and successful captures with the usb3hdcap? use higher values for sharpness, etc.,

I do have both devices, but all my players and tests use NTSC. Your experiences with the USB3HDCAP in particular are quite different than mine, for example I had to lower the Sharpness control to 0 and it seems that for you even leaving it at 32 doesn't produce the expected sharpness level. I'm assuming this is due to some difference with how the device handles PAL, but I suppose it could be something else altogether.

In your opinion are one or another clear or marginally better for this purpose and why ?

See above regarding our different experience. The "NO SIGNAL" issues I get make the USB3HDCAP not very useful for me.

I have tried two approaches the usually one with a full frame tbc the avt-8710, and the other with a DVD recorder (LG RH199Hs) in pass-through.

Here is an approximate levels match so you can truly compare.

V1 = AVISource("cap-tbc.avi").AssumeTFF().ColorYUV(off_y=-18,gain_y=20).AddBorders(4,0,0,2).SeparateFields()
V2 = AVISource("cap-dvd-rec.avi").AssumeTFF().ColorYUV(off_y=5,gain_y=-5).AddBorders(0,2,4,0).SeparateFields()

Interleave(V1,V2)

I prefer the AVT-8710 capture, as the other one has added bright halos around the buildings and dark halos around the restaurant sign text. It also seems more posterized. Both look rather posterized even before the levels adjustment, though...

[Brad]

However I tried amarecTV and this” no signal “ never happen with this software.
...
It seems to work fine but we only have information about dropped frames not inserted frames . It seems also less prone to drop frames.

I just tried AmaRecTV with my "torture test" VHS and I get "NO SIGNAL" just as much as in VDub. It reported 0 drops, etc. on all of its counters, but take a look at how many frames it's actually missing:



This issue with unreported missing frames is why I don't use AmaRecTV.

[BladeBlur]

This might be a silly question, since the USB3HDCAP uses a similar chipset as the XCapture-1, does that mean that if bought the XCapture-1 and it doesn't work on my PC, does that mean that so will the Startech?

[Brad]

I believe they're effectively the same device, so yes.

[Brad]

I do have both devices, but all my players and tests use NTSC. Your experiences with the USB3HDCAP in particular are quite different than mine, for example I had to lower the Sharpness control to 0 and it seems that for you even leaving it at 32 doesn't produce the expected sharpness level. I'm assuming this is due to some difference with how the device handles PAL, but I suppose it could be something else altogether.

I had forgotten that the DVD player I use for testing does support PAL output. Here are some captures using driver 1.1.0.160.6 on Win7.



And the ATI 600.



I can confirm the following results match up between your DVD test captures and mine:

• USB3HDCAP PAL has worse sharpness than ATI 600.
• USB3HDCAP PAL chroma is shifted down.
• USB3HDCAP PAL chroma has what I will term "diagonal rolling bars".
• ATI 600 PAL chroma has fat horizontal lines.
• ATI 600 PAL crushes blacks.

One thing I see on mine, not sure if it's on yours:

• USB3HDCAP PAL clips certain extreme chroma levels before they even reach 240.

Unable to confirm that the USB3HDCAP vertical chroma resolution is worse. I also have no way to test whether unstable sources like VHS work better in PAL mode. I don't get drops/inserts at the start of capture like I do with NTSC, so that seems to imply it could be the case.

[Brad]

Odd little bug. While rewinding a tape, this frame of my DVD player's menu briefly appeared. The last time I had the DVD player connected to the StarTech was 2 days ago.



The frame was PAL when I had the DVD player hooked up, but here it's cropped to NTSC and mixed with a resized partial field of the video I was rewinding. I've noticed similar examples like this, but never one that I could readily identify as days-old.

I guess the device/driver sucks at garbage collection and this is old data stored somewhere in its memory?

[mjb]

Hopefully some advice can be obtained from you learned folks.

I have the Startech USB3HDCAP and am capturing svideo from a video camera. The software that I need to use can attach to the Startech Directshow driver without difficulty. But that is the only option on the software package I need to use, it doesn't all any other options than connect to a specific directshow device.

Now for the assistance. The usb3hdcap recognizes the svideo signal as 720x240p. This resolution is then the resolution I see on the specific software package, so my image is 720x240. I cannot get it to change to required 720x480.

Using amcap, I can modify the Video filter to change it to 720x480, and the image is perfect, but it only remains at that way for amcap.

I have tried various settings in the usb3HDcap filters, but alas in my specific software it still defaults to 720x240.

I cannot use another piece of software, as this display/capture software controls the camera.

Any advice would be welcomed

Michael

[Brad]

I think you're out of luck unless you:

1. Convince StarTech / Micomsoft to recognize SD material as 480/576 instead of 240/288 @ double-rate.
2. Buy a different capture device.

[jagabo]

The usb3hdcap recognizes the svideo signal as 720x240p.

Is that at 30 fps or 60 fps? If the latter you can probably weave the fields in AviSynth.

[FLP437]

vaporeon800 when you tested AmaRecTV and detected the not reported drop frames problem did you use Ver2.31 or the 3.1 version found in the TheThrillness blog. Only to know if this problem is limited to version 2,31 or is still present in version 3.1

Related to the” no signal” problem in the startech site in product reviews there is a buyer that states the following “The product is good. I just had a little problem and I can say the tech support from Startech is amazing. Thank you to DAN and DAVID, the software kept displaying "NO SIGNAL" until we changed the USB port I was using on my PC, it's good now! Thank you guys “ perhaps this problem is usb port related or there is a workaround .I have tried changing the usb port but the problem still happens. One possibility is contact their support and see what they can do.

I´m going to do some transfers using hdmi and want to be assured that the settings are optimized to get the best results and I´m unaware of the use and utility of some usb3hdcap device driver properties .
if anyone knows about the correct use of these settings , namely when using HDMI would be great.

[Brad]

This is the first I'm hearing of a version 3.1.

I'll try to contact StarTech regarding the "NO SIGNAL" popups, but I'm not hopeful since they would need to coordinate with Micomsoft to have them actually fix it.

I don't know what all of those options do. Some of them appeared to do nothing, when I played with them using a previous driver version. I would leave all of those settings as they are.

The "EQ" setting appears to be some sort of equalization to account for long cables. "Output Color Range" specifies how to handle RGB->YUV conversion. "RGB24/32 output" is useless, as it's simply a conversion from 4:2:2. I confirmed this, but Micomsoft even says so on their driver page: "Pseudo-RGB is a thing to convert the color mode to RGB format by software image that was captured in YUY2."

Regarding "Data Transfer Pipe", you can read here for example about the USB transfer modes. I don't understand when it would ever make sense to use Bulk transfer for A/V capture.

Importantly, you should set your DVD recorder's HDMI output to send YCbCr instead of RGB if it allows forcing this option.

[Brad]

The OUTPUT COLOR RANGE options are actually active with YCbCr input. That's a bit goofy, IMO. I suppose it's useful for some people.

Previously I could capture the HS-HD2000U's VCR menu without issue. Now it detects the menu as "1440x240p", and so if I try to capture it at 720x480 I just get an enlarged crop of the top-left corner.

This is resolved by simply disabling the AUTO RESOLUTION SCALING option, which is re-enabled by default when 1.1.0.160.6 is first installed. I would have tried this when I originally installed that version, but I didn't realize that those PROPERTY tabs were clickable buttons until you posted your settings screenshots. Even then, it took me a while of staring at the image to figure it out. For weeks, I assumed that they removed those options from the newest driver.

[FLP437]

Out of curiosity..

The startech driver is digital signed by a company named Yuan High-Tech development Co. Ltd

Searching the internet we see that this Taiwanese company specializes in video capture cards
And there is a model yuan UB 530 similar to the startech but also with SDI input , the drivers for the different models are also similar version as the one startech has in their site

Startech Version: 1.1.0.160
Yuan ub 530 Version 1.1.0.160.5

Probably another clone or who knows the original .Eventually these drivers could also work with the startech they are identified as CY3014… as the startech and Micomsoft

http://www.yuan.com.tw/en/products/external/external_ub530_spec.htm
http://www.yuan.com.tw/en/market/software/vmixdriver/vmixdriver.htm

and is being sold on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Yuan-High-Tech-UB530-Compact-Multi-Interface/dp/B00X8KD3PS

[TheThrillness]

Eventually these drivers could also work with the startech they are identified as CY3014… as the startech and Micomsoft

Yeah me and a few others figured this out about 3-4 years ago.

To my knowledge this is basically what has happened. Yuan is the manufacturer and then companies contact them to build their own OEM cards based on the specification required, but in the end they all use the same chipset and drivers. Micomsoft, StarTech, KATO Vision and some Magewell all do this.

We figured out a way to do it for any driver version. You want to copy the [ENTRY] and [ENTRY.NTamd64] sections of CY3014.INF from the Startech drivers to the Micomsoft drivers, allow for unsigned driver installs.

Recently though the Yuan drivers have been beyond a mess. The reason I first liked them was because of native retro console capture but they have somehow managed to mess that up in 160.5.

I've been sticking to the Elgato HD60 Pro for a month or so now. It's just way easier to use and getting in contact directly with the developers actually works and stuff gets changed.

[FLP437]

TTheThrillness

Related to amarecTv life version 3.1 that you have in your blog where did you find that version , in the official site only version 2.31 exist. Is that a beta or something similar?

vaporeon800 as discovered that version 2.31 drop frames without reporting .Do you know if version 3.1 do the same?

Related to the startech drivers , as the original startech drivers are real yuan drivers and signed for them is it necessary for originals from yuan site to do the same conversion and indicated by you “ copy the [ENTRY] and [ENTRY.NTamd64] sections of CY3014.INF from the Startech drivers to the Yuan drivers and allow for unsigned driver installs or can these yuan drivers be installed directly without modifications.

[TheThrillness]

You can get it here: http://www.amarectv.com/

Although he is close to releasing v4.0 it seems like.

[Brad]

@TheThrillness: The fix for 240p S-Video & composite capture is shown above. Is there a separate problem with low-def RGB capture?

@Both: You can force using the original signed drivers on a device with a different "ID" by using the Have Disk method to manually install the INF in Device Manager. I find it easier than disabling signing and editing the files.

[TheThrillness]

I think so, I forget the cards have so many bugs now.

Micomsoft acknowledge the problem and have "ceased production". Good luck for them contacting the OEM to say "Sorry but our children's video games from 20 years ago can't be captured, please fix"... yeah I doubt they will get far.

[FLP437]

Related to hdmi capture/transfer with original analog sources (as from the worllow referred in a different thread ) and also for original hdmi sources (not games) is there any specifical advantage from lets´s say black magic shuttle or 4k , matrox MX02 or any other in this price range ( the matrox is already a little over the target price)