AVCHD convert to proRes vs to HDV ?

[reko]

I have a AVCHD file, say 01.MTS (1920x1080i)

Using ffmpeg I convert the file to
1. proRes(LT) codec (01.MOV) reduce to 1440x1080
2. mpeg2video / HDV (01.MPG) reduce to 1440x1080

01.MOV looks better (crisper and sharper) than 01.MPG

I drop both files to HDV 1080i25(50i) CS3 project setting timeline.
Export via AME and choose Mpeg2 1440x1080i (25) option.
The final encoded file is 01.m2t

My question :
is it my poor eyes or what as I can't tell the quality difference between 01.MOV and 01.MPG once it's encoded via AME ?

I know there must be a quality difference, but I wonder is the difference can easily be seen by general audience when they are showed the final encoded footage without knowing they are from different codec source ? must it be a huge quality difference actually ?

Any kind of respond will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advanced.

regards.

[racer-x]

I would use an NLE that supports avchd natively instead. Plenty can, even free ones. Otherwise prices is best choice.

[smrpix]

There probably isn't much visible difference.

If your HDV stream out of ffmpeg is truly HDV compatible (and as I've mentioned in an earlier thread I've never gotten that to work completetly) Adobe can smart render HDV out, so in the end you are doing less transcoding with your mpeg file than your ProRes.

That's also why you may want to use AME to encode your AVCHD to HDV directly, pre-premiere, rather than using ffmpeg in your first step.

[reko]

I would use an NLE that supports avchd natively instead. Plenty can, even free ones. Otherwise prices is best choice.

Hi racer,

Yes I realized about this, using an NLE that supports avchd natively is a better choice.
But to be honest, I'm a bit slow in learning a new things in this made me lazy
I'm used to edit with Premiere, starts with 6.5 then "jump" to CS3.

As in another of my thread, besides changing the NLE - means also to change my old computer ...

Anyway, thank you for your advice.
I really appreciate it.

regards.

[racer-x]

If l'm not mistaken, Premiere cs3 can import avchd files if they are in a TS container and the audio is in wave form. You can try ffmpeg to copy video and encode only the judo into a TS file and see if it works. It's been many years, but I think I tried it once.

When I get home, I'll write a script for that function.

[reko]

If your HDV stream out of ffmpeg is truly HDV compatible (and as I've mentioned in an earlier thread I've never gotten that to work completetly)

Hi smrpix,

Yes, if the AVCHD was shot in 1080i mode, ffmpeg produce "compliant" HDV - I know this because HDV 1080i25(50i) CS3 project setting timeline do not show the thin red line when I put the file into it.

Adobe can smart render HDV out, so in the end you are doing less transcoding with your mpeg file than your ProRes.

my CS3 is unable to smart render yet. But HDV (produced with ffmpeg) render times is a little bit faster than proRes file (also produced with ffmpeg)

From the internet, they say CS6 can do smart render ?

That's also why you may want to use AME to encode your AVCHD to HDV directly

also my CS3 can open (or work for rendering) in AVCHD file . (it seems because of my old computer)

pre-premiere, rather than using ffmpeg in your first step.

I like ffmpeg for batch encoding.

There probably isn't much visible difference.

So do you thinks maybe it's because the HDV source already "compliant" which made AME don't do much compressing compare to proRes source ?

This afternoon I've showed those 2 movies to some of my friend ("regular" audience).
They can not tell which one is better than the other, which means to them they are the same quality

Too bad I have a slow internet connection and maybe this forum won't allow to upload a big file.
If not I'd be glad to upload the files (33 mb each).

Thank you for your respond, smrpix.

regards.

[reko]

If l'm not mistaken, Premiere cs3 can import avchd files if they are in a TS container and the audio is in wave form.

Yes, you are right.

You can try ffmpeg to copy video and encode only the judo into a TS file and see if it works. It's been many years, but I think I tried it once.

I've tried before your advice.
One thing for sure, my CS3 won't accept DolbyDigital audio (I need to buy the plugin for this), while my AVCHD is DD audio.
So, I just "-vcodec copy -an" in ffmpeg, put the encoded file to CS3 timeline and CS3 accept the file.

BUT, when I'm in editing stage - it's really annoying, because is very very laggy and many times I had my computer crash just for scrub & cut in the timeline and this is only for a few of +/- 10 sec files... which made me think that it's impossible to edit 1 hour footage even without filter or effect.

So then I've tried proxy editing.
No luck, CS3 freeze after a few hundred frames rendering.

Well you already know why.
it is my old computer (and old NLE) ... lol

When I get home, I'll write a script for that function.

that's a very kind of you , thank you.
I dont' mean to be rude, but I think please don't bother about this.
Still I appreciate your offer.

Thank you once again, racer-x.

regards.

[smrpix]

If ffmpeg were producing proper HDV compliant files, CS3 would be able to smart render them. Simply being able to load them does not mean they are to spec.

[reko]

If ffmpeg were producing proper HDV compliant files, CS3 would be able to smart render them. Simply being able to load them does not mean they are to spec.

then I don't know why mine unable to smart render . (but it does for AVI/DV file).

from another thread :

Only caveat, MPEG-2 will always be decoded to RGB through Premiere even for a cut. Premiere does not support "smart render" except with the expensive Mainconcept MPeg plug-in

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/297452-Premiere-Pro-CS3-MPEG-2-Compatibility

Unfortunately neither PE-4/7 nor CS3/4 offers "Smart Rendering", a VERY IMPORTANT SHORTCOMING with HDV rendering

http://www.donferrario.com/ruether/hdv-editing.htm

It seems they don't give a correct info, maybe ?

Thank you smrpix.

regards.

[smrpix]

Looks like I'm wrong. Apologies.

HDV smart rendering is widely available in other NLEs I use, including the $40 Vegas Movie Studio.
The current version of Premiere Pro (2014) smart renders many pro formats -- which I also use -- so I assumed HDV was included in the list, and had been, going back many versions.

You can try XDCam HD (1440x1080) or stick with ProRes. Cineform is another good option.

[Cornucopia]

I also have PProCS3, and it also has glitches with both ProRes & HDV material. I'm pretty sure new versions would be better in this and HDV's regard. Time to upgrade, eh?

One thing I've noticed is that preview renders get rendered out at MPEG2 HL@H14 ~40Mbps 4:2:0 IPPIPP (or did for my recent 720p60 material). That looks to be quite decent quality (if not totally transparent), and would obviate the need for waiting for preview renders if your DI material was all transcoded to that. This is basically equivalent to the XDCam HD format smrpix was referring to.

Scott

[reko]

Looks like I'm wrong. Apologies.

never mind, smrpix.
You have kindly responding me with everything you know

HDV smart rendering is widely available in other NLEs I use, including the $40 Vegas Movie Studio.
The current version of Premiere Pro (2014) smart renders many pro formats -- which I also use -- so I assumed HDV was included in the list, and had been, going back many versions.

I will try to look about Vegas Movie Studio. If my computer meet the system requirement of Vegas, maybe I need to change to Vegas from CS3.

You can try XDCam HD (1440x1080) or stick with ProRes. Cineform is another good option.

As it seems (at least for me and some of my friends) the quality of the final output either coming from ProRes footage or "HDV" footage not much different, for the time being I think I stick to "HDV" format (converted from AVCHD via ffmpeg). Anyway, thank you very much for your advice.


regards.

[reko]

I also have PProCS3, and it also has glitches with both ProRes & HDV material. I'm pretty sure new versions would be better in this and HDV's regard. Time to upgrade, eh?

Yeah, as suggested by other members here ... .

One thing I've noticed is that preview renders get rendered out at MPEG2 HL@H14 ~40Mbps 4:2:0 IPPIPP (or did for my recent 720p60 material). That looks to be quite decent quality (if not totally transparent), and would obviate the need for waiting for preview renders if your DI material was all transcoded to that. This is basically equivalent to the XDCam HD format smrpix was referring to.

Scott

I don't know about this.
Thank you for your info, Cornucopia

regards.