Converting FLAC to which format ?

[txl]

Hello all,

I have a bunch of 24/96 FLAC files that I'd like to play from a Pioneer LX-91

Of course the LX-91 being old and so on does not play DVD-Audio

So I think I should have to convert the FLAC files to DTS-HD since DTS is lossy and that would be stupid but I don't know how to do it.

Can you guys help me with the best possible solution ? Perhaps there is a better way than convert it to DTS-HD ?

Thanks a lot

[jman98]

FLAC is not supported by DVD Audio. Just want to be sure you understand that. Your player's inability to play DVD Audio is normal, but FLAC isn't part of the DVD Audio specification.

There is an excellent chance that your player can play 24/96 WAV without any problems. Try to uncompress the FLAC back into WAV format and see if that plays OK. That is the simplest possible solution. If you use this program (FLAC Frontend)
http://members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm
and use the Decode option, it will uncompress your FLAC file back to WAV format.

[txl]

Thanks for the idea, I'm trying that now but I need to check if my Pioneer LX91 would read data DVD with .wav files on it.

It would be the simplest method for sure...

Does anyone know if this would work on my LX91 ?

Thanks

[noemi7]

Two options: (1) down convert flacs to CD-DA , (2) make a fake BR disc with video as i.e. black screen muxed with original audio to it. multiAVCHD can be helpful for the second option.

[Cornucopia]

And either one would use LPCM audio (stereo, 16bit, 44100Hz for the CD; multichannel/stereo, 16/24bit, 48/96kHz for the BD)

Scott

[txl]

Hello,

Thanks for the help, I'm trying multiavchd and i can't get it to do what i want.

Basically I just want to put audio files and play them as a dvd movie with black picture.

Mutliavchd wants to convert the files to AC3 and it's not happy with the wav format or flac format.

Do I really need to convert files to AC3 ? I don't care about the space since a .wav album with 24/96 is about 2gigs and I can fit 4.7 on a dvd so i don't want to compress ANYTHING.

How can i do that ?

Thanks

[Alex_ander]

You can decompress those to wavs and author as 'DVD Video' with stills, using either 'Audio Only' option of DVDLab 2.xx or Muxman. 24/96 stereo is OK for DVD Video with stills.

[jman98]

You can decompress those to wavs and author as 'DVD Video' with stills, using either 'Audio Only' option of DVDLab 2.xx or Muxman. 24/96 stereo is OK for DVD Video with stills.

While I agree that it should work, it's my understanding that the DVD format does not technically support this kind of audio. I do agree that it should work, but if some player refuses to play it, there's not much you can do since it's out of spec.

[txl]

Well I can try that, it's o,nly 1 blank dvd and in any case I can't get multiavchd to do this for me, it's alwayds bitching about song lenght, wrong format (wav) and so on....

let's experiment

Thanks

[Alex_ander]

While I agree that it should work, it's my understanding that the DVD format does not technically support this kind of audio. I do agree that it should work, but if some player refuses to play it, there's not much you can do since it's out of spec.

In my understanding it does comply DVD Video standards:
The maximum bit rate is 6.144 Mbps... DVD players are required to support all the variations of LPCM, but many subsample 96 kHz down to 48 kHz, and some may not use all 20 or 24 bits. The signal provided on the digital output for external digital-to-analog converters may be limited to less than 96 kHz and less than 24 bits.
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.6.2
This means no DVD player is allowed to refuse playing it, despite some cheaper models will output 48 kHz. There are commercial 24/96 Audio DVDs in DVD Video format, an example: Pete Townshend's Scoop3 (Amazon wrongly marks it as DVD-A - it's not). The writing on its cover reads it will work on any DVD Video player.

[Noahtuck]

The writing on its cover reads it will work on any DVD Video player.

Most, if not ALL, DVD-A disc's will work on a standard dvd player, all the ones I have do.

It's because they have standard res audio, DTS, AC3, etc. in the VIDEO_TS folder and in order to access the hires audio in the AUDIO_TS folder you need to have a player that specifically plays DVD-A.

[Cornucopia]

The DVD-Audio spec allows for cross compliance with the DVD-Video spec, but just as there are plenty of discs that support both, there are also plenty of discs that only support audio.
Plus, for the OP's needs, creating every one of his discs with additional A+V material, just to maintain compliance and be listenable, will use up valuable disc space - even using compressed material.
Mainly, the area where this idea falters is in the assumption that the existence of DVDV with DVDA allows DVDV players to somehow access the DVDA material. It can't. They are 2 totally separate entities and spheres of operation. Only combo players are able to access both.
Since the OP does NOT have a combo player, that kind of makes the above suggestion moot.

Scott

[txl]

Hello all,

Good news muxman works, I use a static pic as the "video" and it works, i can play the disc files (video ts folder) in VLC and if i burn the disc it plays in my pioneer LX91.

Bad news is that muxman makes only 1 track, and the player won't skip to the next song.

I'm sure it's a muxman setting issue but I don't understand the chapter/sequence difference.

Could someone explain to me how to make a dvd with separate tracks (songs).

Thanks a lot

[Alex_ander]

The writing on its cover reads it will work on any DVD Video player.

Most, if not ALL, DVD-A disc's will work on a standard dvd player, all the ones I have do.

It's because they have standard res audio, DTS, AC3, etc. in the VIDEO_TS folder and in order to access the hires audio in the AUDIO_TS folder you need to have a player that specifically plays DVD-A.

The example I gave is not DVD-A at all (empty AUDIO_TS folder), neither has it alternative type tracks.

[Alex_ander]

Could someone explain to me how to make a dvd with separate tracks (songs).

You can make chapter list as a text file with frame numbers in column (you'll have to calculate them for chapter timings). Import it from file menu. Then as usual mux a still picture as video + full audio stream. Just tried it - chapter navigation works at least in MPlayerClassic, but I'd test it on DVDRW to be sure. In DVDLab it would be 100% OK + you could use new picture for each chapter.

P.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video
The official allowed formats for the audio tracks on a DVD Video are: PCM: 48 kHz or 96 kHz sampling rate, 16 bit or 24 bit Linear PCM, 2 to 6 channels, up to 6,144 kbit/s.

I can also remember having at my disposal a commercial DVD with both Video + 24/96 audio - DVD2 of this set:
http://www.amazon.com/Bridge-School-Concerts-Anniversary-Edition/dp/B005N959PE

Video track there is pillarboxed and compressed to about 4000 kbps to fit total allowed bitrate together with 24/96 audio

[Cornucopia]

I would have suggested this option also (using 24/96, stereo LPCM or 24/48/5.1 with very low bitrate video). However, even though players are SUPPOSED to support the highest rates to be compliant, history has shown that many/most players have NOT supported this highest level yet were still were considered compliant. And a law that cannot/won't be enforced isn't a law at all.

Maybe time & the rise of BD players have improved this, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Scott

[Noahtuck]

The writing on its cover reads it will work on any DVD Video player.

Most, if not ALL, DVD-A disc's will work on a standard dvd player, all the ones I have do.

It's because they have standard res audio, DTS, AC3, etc. in the VIDEO_TS folder and in order to access the hires audio in the AUDIO_TS folder you need to have a player that specifically plays DVD-A.

The example I gave is not DVD-A at all (empty AUDIO_TS folder), neither has it alternative type tracks.

Okay, I misread/understood what you wrote.

[txl]

Could someone explain to me how to make a dvd with separate tracks (songs).

You can make chapter list as a text file with frame numbers in column (you'll have to calculate them for chapter timings). Import it from file menu. Then as usual mux a still picture as video + full audio stream. Just tried it - chapter navigation works at least in MPlayerClassic, but I'd test it on DVDRW to be sure. In DVDLab it would be 100% OK + you could use new picture for each chapter.

Ok, thanks for the chapter tip but is it possible to make separate TRACKS to make navigation easier ?

The next step is them to make a menu with access to each song with pictures and so on but we'll see when we get there

Thanks a lot

[hogger129]

Could you just convert them to WAV files and play them at 24/96?

[txl]

They are converted as WAV but now I have the problem that muxman is maing me a single track DVD with all the files as WAV, so I'm looking for the solution to telle muxman to have separate TRACKS for every Wav file.

Thanks

[txl]

Dont think handbrake would help, muxman does the job perfectly except that I don't know how to make separate TRACKS with each song instead of 1 file with chapters....basically I don't want a live album but a studio album

Thanks for the help

[Alex_ander]

I can only suggest making a menu separately, then assemble menu + individual DVD tracks. Didn't try to do it with free tools only (maybe that's also possible). I use TAW4 for menu and DVDRemake for combining it with multiple individually authored tracks - that is my usual workflow at authoring DVDs, so I could explain it in detail if you have access to those tools. Full version of Muxman (not free) is capable of authoring multiple tracks; if I remember it correctly, they are called 'segments' there, each with its own timeline. Authoring with menu is also possible in full Muxman but needs readiing a lot of its documentation.

[noemi7]

Look at this guide how to add chapters to your DVD in Muxman or better use GUI for dvdauthor which is hell easier to handle

[txl]

Hello and thanks for the tips.

I don't want to add chapters at muxman, I want separate tracks...this is the biggest problem for me.

I tried dvdauthorgui but it won't take .wav or .flac files as audio stream, only ac3, dts and a bunch of mp whatever which would be lossy, the idea is just to play the highest possible audio quality (wav 24/96), I don't care at all about picture, I have a 70k still m2v which is perfect for that.

Back to square 1

I can't understand why it is so complicated to play hi quality audio with all the FLAC and 24/96 files available now there should be a simple guide for idiots like me to be able to achieve the impossible (or almost)

Thanks for the help guys, I need more

[txl]

I can only suggest making a menu separately, then assemble menu + individual DVD tracks. Didn't try to do it with free tools only (maybe that's also possible). I use TAW4 for menu and DVDRemake for combining it with multiple individually authored tracks - that is my usual workflow at authoring DVDs, so I could explain it in detail if you have access to those tools. Full version of Muxman (not free) is capable of authoring multiple tracks; if I remember it correctly, they are called 'segments' there, each with its own timeline. Authoring with menu is also possible in full Muxman but needs readiing a lot of its documentation.

With the free muxlan version I can create separate segments but when I author the dvd I get only the first one..

Here's how i do

I go to segment 1, pick my video file (m2v), pick my audio file (song 1)
I create a new segment (segment 2) pick the same video file pick the audio file (song 2)
I click on start it processes all right I get my video ts folder and when i launch it in VLC for test or if I burn it I only have segment 1

I go and have a look at the video ts folder and the file VTS_01_1.VOB is 154 megs which is the size of the wav file of song 1...but it won't use song 2 and so on....

Thanks for the help

[transporterfan]

For quality I use an old version of TMPGEnc DVD Author (takes forever to encode and maxes all 4 cores but I can get PCM or AC3 with a slideshow if I want it), but for speed I use this:

http://www.createdvd.net/audio_dvd_creator.htm (free trial available).

Convert to .wav first and go from there. Now, I am not a complete audiophile, but I am happy with the output of both programs.

[txl]

We're getting there....SLOWLY

Using gui for muxman I can create some buttons and I can assign the audio file to the button, when I create the dvd structure on a hard disk and launch the result in vlc I have my menu (a picture) and the 4 songs I have created the buttons for so far....

BUT NO SONG ha ha ha

I check the video_ts folder and for sure it's only 646ko, which is basically the menu. The menu plays fine, the mouse activates this or that song title but when i click on it to play it it comes back to the menu, which is normal since the .wav files are not incorporated into the .vob files which are all a mighty 100ko

So knowing that in gui for muxman I tell him to assign the songs to the buttons, that when i check the button properties it tells me the size is about 150 megs per song (which is correct) and that the DVD total size will be about 3 gigs (also correct) why do i have only 646ko as the final output ?

The muxman windows appears, the batch process takes place, obviously it finished in 3 seconds instead of the time needed to copy the .wav files into the .vob files but I still don't understand why...

Here's the muxman log that was created, I removed the 4 audio file names on purpose

MuxMan version 0.16.8
Opened script file f:\AVCHD\Temp\muxman.mxp
Accepted audio .......wav filename
Accepted audio .......wav filename
Accepted audio .......wav filename
Accepted audio .......wav filename
No useable audio found for PGC "MainMenu"

15:41:14 Begin multiplex VTS01.
Title Segment List
Segment_1
Maximum audio duration 13674 fields.
Starting scene Segment_1_scn1 at 00:00:00:00
SeqEnd at 1203A.
Bytes remaining in buffer = 0.
Bitrate - avg: 20480000, min: 20480000 (lba 0), max: 20480000 (lba 0).
Shortest GOP has 2 fields, longest GOP has 2 fields.
Fields: 2, VOBU: 1, Sectors: 50.

15:41:14 Begin multiplex VTS02.
Title Segment List
Segment_2
Maximum audio duration 16060 fields.
Starting scene Segment_2_scn1 at 00:00:00:00
SeqEnd at 1203A.
Bytes remaining in buffer = 0.
Bitrate - avg: 20480000, min: 20480000 (lba 0), max: 20480000 (lba 0).
Shortest GOP has 2 fields, longest GOP has 2 fields.
Fields: 2, VOBU: 1, Sectors: 50.

15:41:14 Begin multiplex VTS03.
Title Segment List
Segment_3
Maximum audio duration 27130 fields.
Starting scene Segment_3_scn1 at 00:00:00:00
SeqEnd at 1203A.
Bytes remaining in buffer = 0.
Bitrate - avg: 20480000, min: 20480000 (lba 0), max: 20480000 (lba 0).
Shortest GOP has 2 fields, longest GOP has 2 fields.
Fields: 2, VOBU: 1, Sectors: 50.

15:41:14 Begin multiplex VTS04.
Title Segment List
Segment_4
Maximum audio duration 11384 fields.
Starting scene Segment_4_scn1 at 00:00:00:00
SeqEnd at 1203A.
Bytes remaining in buffer = 0.
Bitrate - avg: 20480000, min: 20480000 (lba 0), max: 20480000 (lba 0).
Shortest GOP has 2 fields, longest GOP has 2 fields.
Fields: 2, VOBU: 1, Sectors: 50.

15:41:14 Begin multiplex VMG.
Menu Segment List
Segment_MainMenu
Encoded stream 20 is script stream 1.
Encoded stream 21 is script stream 2.
Maximum audio duration 0 fields.
new graphics buffer size 414720.
SPU buffer size 8192.
graphics buffer size 1244160.
Starting scene MainMenu_scn1 at 00:00:00:00
SeqEnd at 1743D.
Bytes remaining in buffer = 0.
Bitrate - avg: 1809066, min: 1809066 (lba 0), max: 1809066 (lba 0).
Shortest GOP has 2 fields, longest GOP has 2 fields.
Fields: 24, Still fields: 22, VOBU: 1, Sectors: 53.
15:41:14 End multiplex.


Thanks for the help.


PS : I tried apollo audio dvd and it crashed as soon as I put some .wav 24/96 in it....bad karma for me

[Cornucopia]

Just like where player support of 24/96 LPCM is sporadic, so too is authoring support. There's a good chance that, unless it explicitly states it otherwise, Muxman doesn't support it either...

To test this theorem, get a short 24/96 clip and downsample/downrez it to 16/48 LPCM, and try to make a test disc wth that. If it works, you basically know that the app DOES NOT support 24/96. If it doesn't work (which it should), you know you are doing something wrong.

or, Back to square one, or my previous suggestions.

Scott

[txl]

I did as you said and the result is the same, video_ts folder is 156kb big, the menu launches in VLC but nothing happens when I try to play the file.....

Can some muxman expert have a look at my logfile and tell me what i do wrong ?

This being said when i try to add some 24/96 file I get a dialog box telling me that the specs are 24/96 and continue anyway ? I click on yes and the text line in the audio properties is in red, if I send a 16/48 file I don't have this dialog and the line is black.

One alternative solution would be to be able to edit the individual vob files and manually add the wav file in them ?

I have 13 songs and 13 group of files as follows...

VTS_01_0.IFO
VTS_01_1.VOB

VTS_02_0.IFO
VTS_02_1.VOB

and so on.....

Thanks for the help

[Cornucopia]

There are plenty of other authoring solutions besides Muxman, including free ones (some of which still use Muxman as a back end engine). Maybe you should try DVDAuthorGUI, or similar. Especially using LPCM 16/48/stereo, you should NOT be experiencing the kinds of problems you're having.

Scott