Episodic DVDs: is it possible...?

[Instant Martian]

Hi guys!
Again in need for your help.
I am backing up a tv-series I bought last week.
The discs are authored so that at the end of each episode the player returns to the main menu.
I was wondering if it is possible to set things in a way that all the episodes are played in a continuous way (like a "Play All" button).
Obviosly I want to be able to return to main menu anytime.
I think PgcEdit could be the right piece of software, unfortunately I am not very familiar with it.

Each episode has a single post command:
- 30 08 00 09 01 C0 00 00 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 9, resume cell 1
- 30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1
- 30 08 00 0B 01 C0 00 00 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 11, resume cell 1
- 30 08 00 0C 01 C0 00 00 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 12, resume cell 1

Anyone can help?

[tinker]

It is all possible, but how easy it will be depends if there is only one main menu or each episode has its own menu. However if you are not familiar with PGCEdit and have some idea how DVD structure works it may get difficult at best.

What you posted it is not enough. There are commands in each VMG PGC (9,10,11,12) which go somewhere. But each of those PGC could be used to "Play All" if GPRM is set be "PLAY ALL button". Than GPRM can stay the same value for all titles.

From what you posted there might be only one menu, but if each episode has its own menu, than it will get little more complicated.

Each of VMG PGC (9-12) will have two command lines
For VMG PGC9

Set gprm(0)=100
If gprm(0) == gprm(1) than Jump to Title(2 assuming that is a number for next title)

VMG PGC10 will have Title3 and so on

If the menu is in VMG domain than Play All button will have command

Link PGCN PGC[(13 or next free number) for a new PGC you will create in VMG domain]

New PGC will have two commands

Set gprm(1)=100
(JumpTT) Jump title1 (if that is your first title)

[Instant Martian]

The DVDs are like this:
- Universal logo
- Menu intro (a small video)
- Menu (episode menu)
- Languages menu.

About the "theory" and how DVD works I have searched information all around with little success.
I understand PgcEdit is a very powerful software but only for those "in the know".

[tinker]

Try This Book. Very good.

http://www.dvd-replica.com/DVD/productinfo.php

If you post a picture of DVD, like you have in Subtitle forum, it would help.
I will answer your Subtitle question soon.
Have to make some pictures.

[Instant Martian]

Thanks tinker, but I meant "free" information.
Not because I want all for free, just I don't know if I would be able to understand it.

I can post a picture for sure, just tell me exactly a picture of what.

Thanks for helping with the subs too, take your time.

[tinker]

Same picture you posted in Subtitle forum and mark where is Episode Menu.

[r0lZ]

A relatively big part of the DVD-Replica guide is available online. Look at "Unofficial DVD Specifications" in the left column.
The mpucoder's DVD-Video Information site is more technical, but also very informative and free.

Also, do you know that you can click on the button with the current command name when you are in the PgcEdit's command editor? It will open the DVD-Replica page for that command. (However, please note that there are some minor errors in the DVD-Replica specifications.)

What you want to do may be extremely easy if all episodes are in the same VTST domain. For example, if the episode 1 is in VTST 1, 1, ep 2 in VTST 1, 2, etc..., then it will be easy to chain the episodes together to play them all. If they are in different VTSses, then you will have to create new dummy PGCs in the VMGM, and that's more difficult, although not impossible.

Let me know the structure of your DVD, and I'll try to help. You can post the output of the Help -> Display PGCs List as Text here. That should be sufficient.

[cal_tony]

Simple and easy way to make episodic DVDs with menus is run the DVD thru DVD shrink. Split all the episodes into separate titles. Create a DVD with all the title sets. Run this thru the simple program TitleWriter.

It is a simple program and will write a very simple menu that will allow the user to create a menu that will select for individual title set play or play all. Best thing about it is it will do this in just a few seconds.

Tony

[Instant Martian]

@tinker
here they are the pics you required:



The first one (0:50s) is the first part of the menu (a video intro + the menu with 5 buttons), the second (0:30) is a menu that plays in an endless loop (with the same 5 buttons).
The one with 3 buttons (which is a still, 0:00) is the languages menu.
Title 1 is the Universal logo, titles 2, 3, 4 and 5 are the episodes.

Thanks to the other guys for the answers.

@r0lZ
as far as I understand the episodes are NOT in the same VTST domain.

@cal_tony
I don't understand exactly what you suggest but it sounds like a kind of reauthoring, which I don't want to do.
If what I want is achievable fast and easy via PgcEdit good, otherwise I'll let things as they are.

[tinker]

This will get a litle more complicated. Good think is that main menu is in VTS 1 for all episodes.
First question is. Do you have a "PLAY ALL" button in those two menus?
The way it works is that after first menu runs out it will jump to a second one and stay there till you push any of the buttons.
Problem is if you push any button in fist menu, before it times out, it will never go to second one, that is why you will need "PLAY ALL" button in both.
To create a correct command for a PLAY ALL button, I will need Command in Play Button for first episode and post command section of the main and second menu.
From there we can use this

Each episode has a single post command:
(CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 9, resume cell 1
(CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1
(CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 11, resume cell 1
(CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 12, resume cell 1


to go from one title to the other in play all mode. We will assign GPRM0=1000 to play all button plus proper command, just to make sore it does not interfere with any other command and VMGM PGC9 will have
GPRM1=1000
If GPRM0==GPRM1 than Jump Title2

VMG PGC10
GPRM1=1000
If GPRM0==GPRM1 than Jump Title3
and so on

As you can see this is not as simple as it seem.
The best would be if you could send the vhole DVD file through some free file sharing site.
The way to do it is to delete all title programs except for first one and all audio from titles. That way a file is small and flow remain. Menus are no problem.
You can do it all with PgcEdit.
Double click Title and see the pictures

Make a copy of your file and do this edit on a copy

[r0lZ]

@tinker
No need to do what you suggest to post a "light" DVD somewhere. With 3 mouse clicks, the user can create the ZIP containing everything needed to examine the DVD, and send the ZIP by email to a specialist for analysis. Just use File -> Backup -> Create ZIP Backup.
When you execute that menu, it creates a ZIP files with all IFOs, and a "menubuttons.but" file that contains the definitions of all menu buttons and BOVs from the DVD. It will also ask if you want to include the small menu VOBs or images of the menus in the ZIP. In this case, since the main menu VOB is probably too large, I recommend to select the images option. With the IFOs, the menubuttons file and the images, you can examine and trace the DVD exactly like the original, except that you will not be able to use the preview to see the VOB cells, and the menu with buttons will be visible in the menu viewer as still menus. (The images of the menus are small images, so you should select the option Preview -> Small Size or the buttons will not be placed at the correct position.)
Note that the IFOs of commercial DVDs are copyrighted, and should not be posted in a public forum.

[r0lZ]

@r0lZ
as far as I understand the episodes are NOT in the same VTST domain.

Yes, I see that in your screenshots. Pity.

Here is the method I recommend. Note that it is specific to this DVD (but it should work with all DVDs of the box).

I don't know the number of episodes in the DVD, but according to your first post, I suppose there are 4 episodes per DVD.

Copy this code in the clipboard:

[71 00 00 03 00 00 00 00]   1  Set gprm(3) =(mov) 0 
[71 00 00 04 01 03 00 00]   2  Set gprm(4) =(mov) 259 
[30 08 00 02 01 C0 00 00]   3  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 2, resume cell 1

Select the PGC containing the first episode (Title 2) and in the right panel, select the "*** post-commands" line, then click the button "Paste After". The 3 commands above should be inserted as post-commands # 1, 2 and 3.

Repeat the same operation for the second episode (title 3), with this code:

[71 00 00 03 00 00 00 00]   1  Set gprm(3) =(mov) 0 
[71 00 00 04 01 04 00 00]   2  Set gprm(4) =(mov) 260 
[30 08 00 02 01 C0 00 00]   3  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 2, resume cell 1

Finally, repeat again for Title 4 with this code:

[71 00 00 03 00 00 00 00]   1  Set gprm(3) =(mov) 0 
[71 00 00 04 01 05 00 00]   2  Set gprm(4) =(mov) 261 
[30 08 00 02 01 C0 00 00]   3  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 2, resume cell 1

Do not modify the post-commands of the last episode, as it should return to the menu normally.

Save and test. That's all.

Note that only the second command in the code above changes. If there is a DVD with more episodes, just insert the commands as above, but be sure to increment the value in the second command to jump to the right episode. (259 jumps to episode 2, 260 to episode 3, and so on...)

[Instant Martian]

First question is. Do you have a "PLAY ALL" button in those two menus?

No. That's exactly what I want to achieve.
Actually I don't care to have a real button on the menu, I just want a continuous playback no matter which episode I start from:

episode 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> menu
episode 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> menu
episode 3 -> 4 ->menu
episode 4 -> menu

This is the Command in Episode 1 play button:



By "main" and "second" menu do you mean the two parts of the "episode menu" (0:50 and 0:30)?
If so, here they are:



I made a "light" DVD following r0lZ's advice, hope it can help.
To avoid copyright issues I send you the link via PM.

@r0lZ
I didn't notice you are the author of PgcEdit!
It is an honour to "meet" you.
Even from my deep ignorance I know your program is a great piece of software.
I wish I were able to use it at full power.

[tinker]

Looked your file
Just do what r0IZ suggested, it will work.
WMG PGC2 is one which choose what to play.

[Instant Martian]

I'll report as soon as I have the time to try.

[Instant Martian]

Just to be sure I understood: will I have 4 post-commands for each episode but the last?
Example, episode 1, pre-commands will be

[71 00 00 03 00 00 00 00]   1  Set gprm(3) =(mov) 0 
[71 00 00 04 01 03 00 00]   2  Set gprm(4) =(mov) 259 
[30 08 00 02 01 C0 00 00]   3  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 2, resume cell 1
[30 08 00 09 01 C0 00 00]   4  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 9, resume cell 1

or do I have to delete the fourth (and original) post-command?
I made a test leaving the fourth command and everything seems to work.

[tinker]

Just to be sure I understood: will I have 4 post-commands for each episode but the last.

That's correct.

Also last command in line 4 can be deleted in first four episodes. It is useless.

[r0lZ]

I agree. The last command is useless (because it cannot be executed), but usually, when it's possible, I prefer to leave the original commands in place, just in case.

[Instant Martian]

Just to be sure I understood: will I have 4 post-commands for each episode but the last.

That's correct.

Also last command in line 4 can be deleted in first four episodes. It is useless.

You mean first three episodes maybe.
Episode 4 is the last one so I think I have to leave the original command.

[tinker]

Sorry my mistake. Somehow I was thinking of five episodes.

[Instant Martian]

I made a test deleting the fourth (original) post-command in all episodes but the last one and it seems all works perfectly so I think I'll go that way.
Too bad I have already finished season 1.
Just one last question:
these values (259, 260, ...), where did they come from?
Are they "magical numbers"?

@r0lZ
This is another "project" I will put my hands on (supposedly not in the near future though).
Can I hope for your help when the moment will come?

[tinker]

They are just a number. If you do your own commands, you can choose any number from 0 to 65535.
Since 0 is a default for all GPRM, than really 1-65535 is useful.
In your case you have to use those numbers because that is how VMG PGC2 decide which title to play.

[r0lZ]

Luckilly, you have posted the image of the right PGC in your post above: the episodes menu.

The post commands of that menu contain the code executed when a specific button has been selected. Lines 2 and 3 put the button number in gprm 0. Then, in the following lines, gprm 0 is checked, and the lines corresponding to a specific button number are executed. For example, line 4 checks if gprm 0 contains 1 (meaning that button 1 has been selected), and if it's NOT the case, it jumps to line 8, where it is checked against 2, etc... When the line that tests if gprm 0 contains the button number that has been selected by the user, the jump does not occur, and the next lines are executed. For example, after having selected button 2, lines 9 and 10 are executed. Line 9 puts the "magic number" 259 in gprm 4, and line 10 jumps to VMGM PGC 2.
(Line 20 checks button 5, that returns to the main menu, but we don't need to examine that code.)

Note also that the first post-command (always executed) puts 0 in gprm 3. Since gprm 3 is not used elsewhere in the PGC, I have supposed that is is used later, for example in the VMGM PGC 2.

So, with that information, it is easy to build the commands that must be executed to simulate the fact that the user has selected a specific button on that menu. For button 2, corresponding to episode 2, the code is made of line 1, 9 and 10. By replacing the original post-commands of episode 1 with that 3 lines, we have replaced the jump to the episode menu with the code necessary to jump directly to episode 2. Similarly, the post commands of episode 2 must be replaced by lines 1, 13 and 14, and so on...

I don't know exactly why they use 258, 259, 260 and 261 to jump to ep 1, 2 3 and 4, but since we have copied an existing code that should work, we don't need to know why they have used that numbers. However, I have encountered often a similar authoring, and it is always based on the same principle. I have not examined the VMGM PGC 2, but I guess that in that PGC, the "magic number" is divided, and the result of the division is used to jump to the right title and chapter number. For example, the integer division of 259 by 256 gives 1, and the remainder of the division is 3. The VMGM PGC 2 will therefore jump to Title 3, chapter 1. Title 3 is the title containing ep 2, so the logic is correct.
(In this DVD, all jumps are made to the first chapter of a specific title, since the episodes are in different titles. In a chapter menu of a DVD containing a long movie divided by chapters, the magic numbers would have been, for example, 267, 513, 769... to jump to title 1, chapter 1, 2, 3...)

I hope you understand.

[r0lZ]

@r0lZ
This is another "project" I will put my hands on (supposedly not in the near future though).
Can I hope for your help when the moment will come?

Well, I can't help everyone individually, and I prefer to develop PgcEdit, but I visit this forum usually once per week, and when I find a post related to PgcEdit that contains an interesting question, I try to reply.

For your specific question on how to add a new audio track, I can't really help, but that procedure has already been explained. Use search. Anyway, I will reply to the other thread.

[Instant Martian]

I hope you understand.

Honestly, I "understood" part of what you wrote (to which extent I myself don't know).
I got to re-read all very carefully.
Problem is that all this... "stuff" looks a lot like programming or scripting languages, not really my cup of tea.
(I am a graphic designer, more familiar with images than codes).
At least I know where these numbers came from, the Episode Menu.
What I didn't understand is if these numbers are in the Episode Menu on any DVD.
Well, thanks for helping anyway.

[r0lZ]

The navigation of a DVD is programmed/controlled by a program (more precisely by Program Chains, aka "PGC"), and yes, it's similar to a scripting language. You may dislike that, but it's a fact, and if you want to modify an existing DVD, you have to learn the DVD structure, the available commands and their usage.

The "numbers" are just contents of GPRMs (variables), that are used by the program to control the DVD. It is the responsibility of the author of the DVD (and his authoring program) to decide how to use the available GPRMs and what value they contain. So, there is no rule telling precisely how a DVD should be authored, and how to use the GPRMs (although there are good practices that should be respected, but they are rarely respected). The trick explained here to jump to the next episode will probably not work with a totally different DVD, but it should work with the different DVDs of the same TV series, because they use most probably the same authoring method.

[Instant Martian]

if you want to modify an existing DVD, you have to learn the DVD structure, the available commands and their usage.

And how do I do that?
Would Unofficial DVD Specifications Guide be a good starting point?
(Out of curiosity, apart the differences in file formats etc, the concepts (the "theory") on that book are valid for BDs too or that's a whole different story?)

[r0lZ]

Yes, DVD-Replica is the best online free site to learn.

The specs of the HD-DVD (abandoned) are similar (but not equal) to the DVD-Video, but BDs use a totally different approach. (And I don't know it.)

[Instant Martian]

BDs use a totally different approach.

I knew it!