What's the latest on VHS capture?

[loninappleton]

VHS is long gone. But there are some things worth preserving. I have an old Hauphauge (whatevs) board and tried to get it going years ago. I captured all the codecs and went through all hoops but wound up with huge unusable files.

Shell programs like AutoGodian Knot work great. Without buying any new hardware have there been any upgrades to using the capture card where a reasonable size file can be made by a noob without 20 pages of instructions? I've done that. I had no success.

Anything current on this?

System is Windows XP.

[usually_quiet]

You should probably update the computer details in your profile, and post the model of the Hauppauge capture card. Otherwise it will be hard for anybody to suggest software that will work with the equipment you already have.

[jagabo]

In short, not much is new. Here's one recent discussion with some samples from different capture devices:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326560-Which-is-better-usb-stick-vhs-cap-or-hd-pvr-...for-vhs-to-dvd

There's another thread with nearly the same title as yours.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/322541-What-s-new-in-capture-cards-for-VHS-capture

[loninappleton]

I spent some time going through these two threads. I was looking for a "translate feature" most of the time but I at least know what AVISynth and some of those other progs are. Not current with any of them.

Trying to pull things together, some hardware according to LordSmurfs works better than playing with AVISynth or other software. A digital video recorder will capture from source (I guess) if you have the right plug outs like S-Video.

Synching sound freaks me out for my level of knowledge of this.

Also it says nothing new in VHS for 5 years except the hardware is available used.

Truth is I haven't got a working VHS machine. I won't buy one and have requested that someone here on Freecycle donate me a working one that's headed for the recycle collection. That will be catch as catch can.

My card is a Hauphaugge (whatevs) WinTV NTSC 61381 Rev D133

I can reinstall or upgrade AVISynth from my discs. But I hope that some newer versions of some software have less accessorizing (foreign codecs not permitted to be packaged in and whatnot) to do.

The goal is VHS to AVI with the aforementioned easy audio track using the old or another cheap board and computer. I do not have a dvr because I have no cable tv. My content comes from streams and other sources.

Thanks for answering and providing these threads for starters.

[usually_quiet]

You may need new XP drivers for your card. I think the ones your card uses are here:
http://www.hauppauge.com/Pages/support/support_pvrpci.html

or maybe here: http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_d.html

Many here seem to be capturing VHS using the Huffyuv codec and Virtualdub. However, if very large files are a problem, you could try Hauppauge's application first for an MPEG-2 capture, and see how that goes. (It can be downloaded from the same pages above.)

Although you have nothing to loose but time, your whatever-VCR-I-can-get-for-free plan is unlikely produce acceptable results. My understanding is that a very good (pro quality, if possible) VCR is key, and that even then, adding a separate TBC between the VCR and the capture card often works wonders.

The suggestion is to use a DVD recorder, not a DVR, in the capture chain. Some members do capture direct to DVD that way. Others just pass the video and audio through a DVD recorder because some DVD recorders are equipped with filters able to fix problems that their TBC can't correct.

[jagabo]

If you're really looking for quality you'll have to spend about US$1000 for an S-VHS deck with line time base corrector (TBC), a full frame time base corrector, and an analog processing amp (all used equipment since nobody make this stuff anymore). Of those, the S-VHS deck is the most important. If your tapes are in good condition you can probably live without the full frame TBC. A poor man's substitute for an s-video deck and full frame TBC is a cheap VHS deck and set-top DVD recorder with a built in line TBC and frame sync. You can get something like a used Panasonic ES-15 for around $50 on ebay. You don't have to record on DVD -- the pass-through signal is corrected.

Then you start thinking about capture cards that can capture s-video as raw YUY2 (or other YUV 4:2:2 colorspace) and finally filtering and editing.

[loninappleton]

Thanks for all the help.

Just out of curiosity, what are those plug together boxes at the Best Buy good for that are supposed to save VHS? Sorry I cannot think of the brand.

A hand me down vhs will have to do. I'm not in business or have a professional application.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks for all the help.

Just out of curiosity, what are those plug together boxes at the Best Buy good for that are supposed to save VHS? Sorry I cannot think of the brand.

A hand me down vhs will have to do. I'm not in business or have a professional application.

Do you mean Pinnacle Systems Dazzle capture devices? Some reviewers at Best Buy's website report success with them, but they don't have a great reputation among members at VideoHelp.

For about the same money, there is this: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3584099&SRC...7BBTkwCjCECjCE
I have the PCI-E version that I use for recording TV. The video quality is excellent recording the output (S-Video) from my STB. It has 3D comb filters, which improve the results from a composite video connection. It can also do hardware MPEG-2 encoding, if needed.

There is also this: http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=TV+Wonder+600+USB that can do uncompressed captures or software encoding to other formats with a CPU that is powerful enough. It also provides good comb filters, but not hardware encoding, if I recall correctly.

[loninappleton]

Thanks for all the help.

Just out of curiosity, what are those plug together boxes at the Best Buy good for that are supposed to save VHS? Sorry I cannot think of the brand.

A hand me down vhs will have to do. I'm not in business or have a professional application.

Do you mean Pinnacle Systems Dazzle capture devices? Some reviewers at Best Buy's website report success with them, but they don't have a great reputation among members at VideoHelp.

For about the same money, there is this: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3584099&SRC...7BBTkwCjCECjCE
I have the PCI-E version that I use for recording TV. The video quality is excellent recording the output (S-Video) from my STB. It has 3D comb filters, which improve the results from a composite video connection. It can also do hardware MPEG-2 encoding, if needed.

There is also this: http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=TV+Wonder+600+USB that can do uncompressed captures or software encoding to other formats with a CPU that is powerful enough. It also provides good comb filters, but not hardware encoding, if I recall correctly.

Yes I was thinking of the Dazzle. But I use Tiger fairly often so this is a good tip! However old Hauphaugge doesn't have S-Video output on it. I've got to get the info into the device some way.

[usually_quiet]

Yes I was thinking of the Dazzle. But I use Tiger fairly often so this is a good tip! However old Hauphaugge doesn't have S-Video output on it. I've got to get the info into the device some way.

Both Diamond/ATI USB capture devices provide composite video, S-video, and stereo audio inputs. I suggested them because I thought that if you were thinking about a Dazzle, you wanted a USB 2.0 device as a replacement for the Hauppauge card you currently have. Either of my suggestions is better from a hardware perspective than a Dazzle, and for about the same or less cost.

[jagabo]

ATI 650 based capture devices are great -- except for one fatal flaw: they have an automatic gain feature that can ruin VHS caps and it can't be disabled. See some examples in this post I made recently:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326560-Which-is-better-usb-stick-vhs-cap-or-hd-pvr-...=1#post2023227

[usually_quiet]

The computer specs in his profile seem long out of date, so it is difficult to tell what capture devices the OP can use. If he needs MPEG-2 hardware encoding, then I guess all that's left is an ATI Theater 550 Pro card, which I only saw in PCI and PCI-E versions.

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4...&_sop=15&_sc=1

Of course it probably has some quirks too. Also, some versions of the 550 Pro cards look like they need a special adapter cable for use with composite video and RCA audio jacks, and I'm not sure where those can be found if they are not included with the card.

[loninappleton]

usually_quiet, thanks for the suggestions. Yes, my profile may be old. But the machine I'd use here (on my home net would have a Sempron and 2G memory with the onboard video.

The Diamond looks like the only reasonable purchase for my very limited use.

I still have AVI Syth on here but I'll guess there have been lots of updates since I assembled all the things needed for that.

[jagabo]

Also beware of the driver and software problems with the Diamond 650. It can be hard to find a combination of drivers and software that work with your operating system.

[orsetto]

Not trying to start an argument here, but I honestly do not understand this type of thread at all.

In 2010, I see no point in a self-described "noob" using a PC to capture VHS. There is no advantage and many potential drawbacks. Direct PC capture is flexible, and allows a huge variety of adjustments, but its a ball-busting, convoluted, ridiculously fussy route that requires a lot of experience and technical savvy to be worthwhile. An "expert" like LordSmurf can blow you away with his PC captures and restorations of VHS, but 99 out of a 100 "noobs" will get poor results (or in loninappleton's case, no results at all). If you have a plenty of time, want to study hard, experiment with drivers/hardware/software, and learn techniques so you can do a stunning job with some priceless personal tapes- thats one thing. But if all you basically want is to get your VHS collection digitized, there are easier methods.

Again, I'm not trying be snarky, I really just don't get this insistence of "noobs" on using PCs to capture VHS: its a pain in the ass, and the results a "noob" will achieve will often not be as good as just using a DVD recorder. Seven years ago, perhaps, there was no alternative and PC capture was more viable. DVD recorders were expensive, crude, and prone to poor capture of VHS signals. Good vcrs with TBC/DNR were recently discontinued and bid into the many hundreds of dollars on eBay. External TBCs and processors were hideously expensive (some still are).

Today, most "geeks" finished their VHS transfer projects, and their discarded top-line used VCRs are a glut on the market at $100 or so. A decent DVD/HDD recorder with stable VHS signal handling like the Magnavox H2160 can be had new/refurb for as little as $159. A Panasonic AG1980 (or a JVC or Mitsubishi DVHS) connected to the Magnavox will give you results today that rival ten times the hardware $$$ investment of a few years ago. For most personal VHS collections, the DVDs made by a recorder are perfectly suitable as "library masters", and can always be imported to a PC later for additional touchup and re-authoring. For "noobs" with a couple hundred tapes to dub, its money well spent and weeks of time saved not riding the PC for each tape. Plus, the recorder and VCR can be sold off when done at little $ loss.

Going by the details in your original post, loninappleton, it looks like your primary goal is not to spend additional money and use what you already have. That I can understand, its a common sense attitude. Unfortunately its a philosophy that doesn't cut it with VHS capture. You could spend months trying to get your capture card to work, and may not like the results. If you have more than a small handful of VHS to digitize, the longer you delay by screwing around with flaky PC capture solutions and waiting for a free VCR to drop out of the sky, the longer the project will take. What is your time worth?

I have nothing but respect for the VH members who do use PCs to capture VHS, in some ways its like mastering a musical instrument. For those who truly know what they're doing, amazing results can be achieved. But "noobs" who are stuck for weeks or months at the "I can't get the card to work" stage really should try the DVD recorder shortcut instead. PCs can be great for recording stable video from a web stream or antenna/cable/satellite feed, and are fairly easy to set up for that purpose. But VHS, with its non-standard wildly-variable signal, is a whole other proposition: most people get further, faster, with a dedicated DVD recorder.

[victoriabears]

having completed my vhs to dvd project I tried and tried with pc capture and failed

For north American vhs I would recommend a sharp vcr with super picture and a jvc dvd recorder of the lsi vintage, may be with a avt 8710 tbc inbetween, it is easier to use a dvd recorder and use a dozen discs and take that to a pc and edit with, say, tmpg mpg editor than learn pc capture, good luck to those who got it to work, but I am pleased with my output, it isnl;t perfect but i enjoy watching it.

[usually_quiet]

Also beware of the driver and software problems with the Diamond 650. It can be hard to find a combination of drivers and software that work with your operating system.

The OP is using windows XP, most likely a 32-bit version given his PC specs, so he's in a better position than many. He should definitely encounter fewer problems with any of the ATI cards we've discussed than someone using Vista or Windows 7, or a 64-bit version of any Windows OS.

The OP also does not have the same expectations that you or others here with a more discriminating eye have, so the effects of the Theater 650's automatic gain may not be an issue for him.

However, orsetto and victoriabears do have a point. Capture using a DVD recorder can be a better solution for some people. Those who are not looking for perfection and do not enjoy all the fiddling with hardware and software required for PC captures seem to find DVD recorders to be a good alternative.