Nero 7.7.5.1 start burning at 1x!?

[arminio]

I have strange problem when burning DVD-Video at Nero 7.7.5.1 (it occurs also at burning data DVD but not on CD). No matter what speed I set, Nero starts burning at 1x and after approx 1/5 of written data, speeds up to defined speed! For example, if I set burning at 8x, Nero starts to burn "lead in" data at 1x and continues to burn "normal" data at 1x up to approx 1/5 of the disc when finally starts to write at 8x. This cause problem in playback of burnt DVD-R.
I am using Windows XP with SP1 on Dell Inspiron 1501. DMA is on. Tested on various DVD-R media with antivirus and spyware off - with always the same problem.

Any ideas what causes this?

P.S. I tried another burning tool - Ashampoo 6 - with the same problem! So, it is obviously driver or drive problem and not burning software. Any ideas?

[guns1inger]

Sounds like your burner has dropped back to PIO mode. Go to the device manager (Right-click on My Computer and select Manage, then click on Device Manager in the left-hand tree). Expand the IDE channels and look at the properties of each one. Once you have found the one in PIO mode, delete it from device manager, and reboot your machine. Windows will reinstall the device in it's correct mode - DMA.

[NoBuddy]

Windows falls back to PIO mode, whenever read errors occure.
Avoid this with an reg-entry:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0001]
"ResetErrorCountersOnSuccess"=dword:00000001

Apply this to all drives (0001-0002 etc)

[arminio]

Sounds like your burner has dropped back to PIO mode. Go to the device manager (Right-click on My Computer and select Manage, then click on Device Manager in the left-hand tree). Expand the IDE channels and look at the properties of each one. Once you have found the one in PIO mode, delete it from device manager, and reboot your machine. Windows will reinstall the device in it's correct mode - DMA.

Thanks for reply but I wrote in my first post that drive is in DMA mode. That's first thing I checked... All IDE channels are in DMA...

[hech54]

starts burning at 1x and after approx 1/5 of written data, speeds up to defined speed

My LG drives and ImgBurn have always burned this way......every time.

[tomlee59]

Burn speed *always* starts low and goes up as the laser progresses to the outermost tracks. The precise mathematical form of this variation is a function of both media and drive. It is a widespread misconception that "8x", for example, means that the burn is a steady factor of 8 greater than 1x throughout. The 8x number is the maximum ever achieved; the average speed is always lower. A laptop 8x drive will burn a DVD typically in about the same time as a desktop 4x drive. So you see how misleading the advertised speed numbers can be!

If you're seeing problems with the burned disc, it's not from this variation (which is totally normal). If you're using crappy media -- the most common cause of marginal burns -- the solution is easy: Quit trying to save a dime. Buy good media, and your aggravation level will go down markedly. Taiyo-Yuden and Verbatim are mentioned most often here.

To get better results with so-so media, set the burn speed one or two notches below max (e.g., 8x for 16x media). Handle the disc only by its edges (fingerprints are not as tolerable in burning as in reading), etc. Sacrifice a chicken. Then after you've used up your dodgy media, go out and get the good stuff. Never look back.

[arminio]

this is NOT NORMAL! I have 2 laptops an 2 desktops and each of them burn correct except Dell. Variation in speed is normal but not from 1x to 4x - in my case, burning starts at 1x (constant speed) and after approx 1/5th of disc it speeds up upt to 4x (I always burn video DVD at 4x!) and then variate in normal range (3.5x - 4x). I don't use crappy media! Only MCC and TY disc (not fakes, ofcourse) but problem is the same at every media (tried MCC, TY, RITEK, crappy CMC and PRINCO...) and speeding to selected speed start at the same place. On CD, everything is fine. Whatever speed I select, burning starts at 1x and afer 1/5th of disc (lead in and 1/5th of burned data) speeds up to selected speed where burning continues correctly. Part burned at 1x has different color and it is clearyl visible that every time there is speedup at the same place - and in case of video DVD, moment where it speeds up produce glitches on my DVD player.

P.S. Verbatim is not media manufacturet but a brand that uses different media - it is good but only if they use MCC or TY - you can find Verbatim with CMC media whic is crap.

[tomlee59]

A speedup is most definitely normal. However, if the burned result is bad, and you are indeed using good media, then there is certainly a problem to be solved.

As a debugging step, try using Imgburn instead of Nero. (As a rule, I use Nero as little as possible; I find it poorly written in many ways. From the frequent anti-Nero comments found on this forum, it would appear that I am not alone.) Report back on what happens; the results will suggest next steps.

[arminio]

As I said, I tried Ashampoo with the same result. Burning images with Nero - same result. I can try Imgburn but I think it will be the same (because burning images with Nero also produce that problem)... Looks like either driver somehow force 1x speed at start and after few MBs of burning, "allow" burning at selected speed, or drive is somehow faulty...

Speedup is normal but start of burning at 1x is not. I don't have any simmilar problem with Nero on other PCs I use (at work and on desktops and other laptop I have) - burning starts at near desired speed and entire burning proccess continues in near burning speed which is normal.

[gadgetguy]

Try updating/reinstalling the firmware for your burner. It sounds like it's using a default state and doesn't recognize any media.

[arminio]

Try updating/reinstalling the firmware for your burner. It sounds like it's using a default state and doesn't recognize any media.

I don't have any firmware update for it. I'll try to search on Internet... Maybe it helps... But if it's using default state and don't recognize media, shouldn't it burn at 1x during entire burning session?

[gadgetguy]

I don't know, but if my memory serves, back when I was experimenting with media, when my burner didn't recognize the media it started slow and tried to speed up, (with usually dismal results). It all depends on the write strategy employed by the manufacturer.

[mail2tom]

While you're at it, upgrade your Nero. Version 7 is up to 7.11.10.0.

[arminio]

It's not Nero problem. The same results I have with other burning software I tried (Ashampoo)...

[MysticE]

As I said, I tried Ashampoo with the same result. Burning images with Nero - same result. I can try Imgburn but I think it will be the same (because burning images with Nero also produce that problem)... Looks like either driver somehow force 1x speed at start and after few MBs of burning, "allow" burning at selected speed, or drive is somehow faulty...

Speedup is normal but start of burning at 1x is not. I don't have any simmilar problem with Nero on other PCs I use (at work and on desktops and other laptop I have) - burning starts at near desired speed and entire burning proccess continues in near burning speed which is normal.

I have never seen this to be the case.

I just burned a 16X TYG03 at 12X in my Lite-on with Imgburn. The burn starts at .1X (not even 1X). At 10% it's at 6.4X, at 30% 8.2X and finally at 87% it hits 12X. Total burn time was 7:02 min (not the fastest but within spec) . This is the way it is. At 12X, 7:02 minutes is a normal burn time.

I suggest you do some homework to understand how drives burn and what CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) is.

[arminio]

MysticE - look, I setup Nero to show me real speed of burning. I burn at 4x. At start and up to 1/5th of the disk (during lead-in and some burning of data), it burns at 1x. Then it abruptly speeds up (you can hear drive motor sound change and see speed info at Nero) and continue to burn 4x variating then up to the end between 3.5x and 4x (normal). On other PCs I tested (one thinkpad notebook and 2 desktops), burning STARTS at selected speed - 4x, and variate during entire burning between 3.5x and 4x.
I tried also with 16x - again it start at 1x and at 1/5th of burning, abruptly jumps to 16x and then stabilise with variating between 15x and 16x. On other PCs I tested, it STARTS at 16x (4x if selected) and variate between 15x and 16x (3.5x and 4x) FROM START!

See, on that problematic Dell where I have big difference in speed, I don't have "constantly increasing speed" burning - it ALWAYS start at 1x (no matter what speed I select) and then at some point, burning INSTANTLY jumps to desired speed which produce faulty burnings and clear discolorisation at one point on burned disc (part burned at 1X is darker and other part burned at near selected speed is brighter and constant in color because burning speed was near constant during burning of that part of disc). Correctly burned disc on other PCs with near constant speed are complete in one color after burning - no banding, no discolorisation and no jumps in speed and perfectly readable in standalone DVD player which is not case with burns at problematic Dell.

See, starting at 1x and then jumping to full desired speed is not normal especially abruptly like it works on my Dell and always at the same place on every media and every burning speed I select!

This is fact and that's the things works in that problematic notebook. Now, do you suggest that this is normal and that other PCs I have and that produce correct and clean near constant speed burnings works faulty??!

[MysticE]

I tried also with 16x - again it start at 1x and at 1/5th of burning, abruptly jumps to 16x and then stabilise with variating between 15x and 16x. On other PCs I tested, it STARTS at 16x (4x if selected) and variate between 15x and 16x (3.5x and 4x) FROM START!

Well I've never seen this happen in many years of burning and many burners. Nor have I seen any graphs in any reviews show 16X burning starting at 16X. It's actually impossible. Most burners use CAV at higher burning speeds.

Constant Angular Velocity (CAV)
The CAV mode spins the disc at a constant RPM throughout the entire writing process. Consequently, the data transfer rate continuously increases as the optical head writes from the inner to outer diameter of the disc. For example, a 5x CAV DVD-RAM recorder begins writing at 2x at the inner diameter of the disc accelerating to 5x by the outer diameter of the disc.


Here's a CAV burn. Note where it starts and how the burn speed increases at the end, when it finally hits 16X.



Fire up Nero CD-DVD Speed and do a 'Create Disc' test and post a screenshot from the computers that burn at a constant 16X.

[mgh]

try defragmenting your hard disk- disk/partition on which the video files are stored.

[arminio]

@MysticE: check media - do you have banding or discolorisation? I have. During my burnings I don't have any problems and speed variate a little except at start where it burn at 1x constantly at the beginning of disc...
Here are Nero disc speed results:


http://www3.webng.com/arminio/testspeed.jpg

Burning was set at 4x. It is clearly visible that it actually started at 2x (not as 1x as Nero reports when I acually burn with him!?) and then at the moment when yellow line jumps up (on 0.4 at X axis and obviously not at 1/5th of disc but more 1/10th) you can hear motor speedup and then speeds up and burning to the end of disc continues with speed that was originally set: 4x with a bit of variating (I checked numbers - it was almost constant and variate only a little from 4.00x to 4.02x but mostly stayed at 4.01x)! Now, why he start at 2x and on 0.4 speeds up to the setup speed (in this case at 4x) and then contiune pretty steady, I can't understand...

The most interresting thing is 8x test. Now, Nero DVD speed does not allow me to test 16x while at Nero I can burn these MCC03 discs at 16x and then Nero also show start at 1x and speedup with the same problem at the same place at end of burning!?! And more interresting thing - at Nero disc speed, things looks OK at 8x (different writing strategy)!

Here is screenshot for 8x:

http://www3.webng.com/arminio/testspeed2.jpg

Maybe these graphs can help someone to explain where is the problem in 4x case and why writing strategy is diferent at 8x (while Nero at 16x produce the same problem as for 4x)? I can't figure out...

@mgh: I have 2 partitions - from both I have the same problem and one of them is not in any "hard" use and it is not fragmented almost at all...

[MysticE]

What you are seeing is how your drive is set up to burn at different speeds. Some times the manufacturer's site will list how and when.

Here's some specs on a Lite-on:



Here's one using P-CAV.



My Lite-on says it can burn these discs at 20X, but I stick to 12X. Do note, even though the graph says it starts at 5.36X when I burn and observe with ImgBurn it does it fact start registering at .1X. I just tried a burn with Nero Express and behaves a bit differently. It says (at start) 12X, 1%. When it finally gets past the lead-in it jumps to 5.2X as you noted. It would appear that ImgBurn is actually showing the lead-in burning while Nero is not.

Don't know the answer, but maybe you should try burning with ImgBurn to see if works better. Most folks here would never use Nero anyway. And I don't get any kind of banding.

Also note that Dell (at least in the past) had their drives built to their specs/firmware. These drives seldom worked as well as their official brand mates.

Some more info here:

http://www.dvd-recordable.org/Reviews+index-req-showcontent-id-134.phtml

[arminio]

Just tried burning with ImgBurn using "files/folders to disc" at 4x speed. Result is: the same problem at the same place! After lead in, it starts burning at 2x and then after some 50% of burning (I tried to burn VIDEO_TS with approx 1.5GB of VOBs so problem occurs somewhere around 50% of burning) jumps on 4x... Completely the same behaviour (starts at 2x and, in this case, at 50%, goes to 1x and then speeds up to 4x with audible sound of motor speed change and burns 4x up to the end) !

I forget to mention that on my Dell I have TSST TS-L632D DVD+-RW drive. Maybe this can help someone to figure out how to remove "speed jump" during burning at that drive? I also found that this drive can't burn DVDs faster than 8x ( http://www.cdfreaks.com/hardware/product/881-Samsung-TS-L632D.html ) and Nero allows me that ?! This is very strange...

[MysticE]

Have you tried another brand of media? Could simply be your drive doesn't like your discs.

[arminio]

As I told in one of my posts in this thread:

I don't use crappy media! Only MCC and TY disc (not fakes, ofcourse) but problem is the same at every media (tried MCC, TY, RITEK, crappy CMC and PRINCO...)

[jimdagys]

Glad it's your computer and not mine that produces banded burn DVDs. See my post at https://forum.videohelp.com/topic361723.html
I have a Pioneer burner and sometimes during a burn it will change speeds or (not often) it will slow way down for a short time, but I never see banding on the final DVD, and the disks always play perfectly in my standalone DVD player. As far as I am concerned, any burner that produces banding is just an expensive toy.