Youtube Upload, increase quality/control (HQ hack obsolete)

[justinslee]

Since last year many things happened at YouTube. . . 8)

Justinslee, your video is the first 16/9 I see to generate fmt=35, all the formats:
Nill 9197 KB
5 9195 KB
6 21.4 MB
13 1783 KB
17 2403 KB
18 17 MB
22 off
34 9000 KB
35 24.5 MB

Could you post the details of your upload video?

Thanks.

qatestdev, here is the mediainfo for my original .mov file that I uploaded to YouTube. I did all the encoding on a Mac, using Compressor.

And for more information, the YouTube fmt=35 option isn't given randomly because every time I reupload the video I get it. My only problem is reproducing this on my other videos (using same settings).


*** MediaInfo Mac // Plain text file report
2009-01-01 16:53:40 -0800
Information for File: Passacaglia_di-DVX HQ wide H.264 fixed.mov

General / Container Stream # 1
Total Video Streams for this File -> 1
Total Audio Streams for this File -> 1
Video Codecs Used -> AVC
Audio Codecs Used -> AAC LC
File Format -> MPEG-4
Play Time -> 3mn 49s
Total File Size -> 141 MiB
Total Stream BitRate -> 5 175 Kbps
Video Stream # 1
Codec (Human Name) -> AVC
Codec (FourCC) -> avc1
Codec Profile -> Main@L3.0
Frame Width -> 640 pixels
Frame Height -> 360 pixels
Frame Rate -> 29.970 fps
Total Frames -> 6862
Display Aspect Ratio -> 16/9
Scan Type -> Progressive
Colorimetry -> 4:2:0
Codec Settings (Summary) -> 2 Ref Frames
QF (like Gordian Knot) -> 0.722
Codec Settings (CABAC) -> No
Video Stream Length -> 3mn 48s 962ms
Video Stream BitRate -> 4 988 Kbps
Video Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Bit Depth -> 24 bits
Video Stream Size -> 136 MiB (96%)
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-12-31 00:30:44
Audio Stream # 1
Codec -> AAC
Codec (FourCC) -> 40
Audio Stream Length -> 3mn 49s 18ms
Audio Stream BitRate -> 184 Kbps
Audio Stream BitRate (Nominal) -> 192 Kbps
Audio Stream BitRate Mode -> CBR
Number of Audio Channels -> 2
Audio Channel's Positions -> L R
Sampling Rate -> 44.1 KHz
Bit Depth -> 16 bits
Audio Stream Size -> 5.02 MiB (4%)
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-12-31 00:30:44

[qatestdev]

Thanks justinslee. For your data and from this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTXwPEO3joI by fascinationduo the 2nd 16/9 I saw that generated fmt=35, previously I thought that 35 was an 4:3 exclusive. I suspect that format 35 could be obtained by using a bit rate around 5.000Kbps or greater, my test “4:3 and Stereo - Test 06 (1280x960/4128Kbps)” at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGI5REe8fro was an attempt but I went only to 4128Kbps, so now I will go a little bit over 5Mbps, testing. . .

Placio74, I also watched some videos with format 35 but without format 22, so I agree with you that is not needed an HD source to generate format 35. That video from fascinationduo in and example, all 8 formats but not 22 because the source was 640x480 and he was using a bit rate of 12.1 Mbps (until a maximum of 29.8 Mbps).

Format 6 for 16/9 is HQM - High Quality Mono, FLV, 16/9, H263, 510Kbps, 480x270, MPEG-1, mono, 96Kbps/44.1KHz, so mono is correct at this format. See the table for formats 5 until 34 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUK91sDULm4 [in the “(more info)” below the yellow “Subscribe”]. Comparison of Nill (Q43, 320x180, but higher bit rate than 5) and 5 (NQ) with identical mono and both FLVs at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9gVRFJ85-I .

Placio74, in your first 4 videos of your exhaustive last test series what bit rates do you used?

I think that format 35 will be an intermediary quality between 18 and 22, maybe BHQV (Better High Quality Video), or maybe YouTube will replace HQ 18 by 35 when available, but will be interesting to solve that mystery. 8)

[Placio74]

...Placio74, in your first 4 videos of your exhaustive last test series what bit rates do you used?

AVI, Xvid, Qz4, 1280x960, 4:3 (VirtualDub) > avg ~2117 Kbps (max ~3949 Kbps, min ~502 Kbps)
AVI, Xvid, Qz4, 960x720, 4:3 (VirtualDub) > avg ~1413 Kbps (max ~2676 Kbps, min ~257 Kbps)
AVI, Xvid, Qz4, 768x576, 4:3 (VirtualDub) > avg ~1019 Kbps (max ~1807 Kbps, min ~235 Kbps)
AVI, Xvid, Qz4, 640x480, 4:3 (VirtualDub) > avg ~810 Kbps (max ~1447 Kbps, min ~167 Kbps)

Also...
AVI, Xvid, Qz4, 1280x720, 16:9 (VirtualDub) > avg ~2054 Kbps (max ~3223 Kbps, min ~1225 Kbps)

Still don't know what's exactly conditions for format 35 (especially when AR is 16:9)...

[justinslee]

After my testing, it seems like it doesn't really have to do with bit rate or even file length. I've uploaded videos with settings almost identical to my fmt=35 16x9 640x360 video.

The only differences I can come up with is the length of the video and the QF.

Can someone try testing a video equal to or longer than 3:49?

[qatestdev]

Yes, the video length is also in my Test 03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMQjE3AUI3A , increasing to 30 seconds, but Placio74 has a 9 seconds video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phqWpYaKWhA with 35, so something difficult to find as to do with YouTube to generate format 35.

Atropine, not all FLV upload stereo will turn mono, like Test 10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug-evQHkT-c , but definitely FLV is not a good file to upload (see the details in the “(more info)” section).

May the following members post their upload video details (Super or Mediainfo)?

Captain Satellite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeAALAlyC6o (35, 25.7 MB)

kovezett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6W_ZchnyRI&fmt=34 (35, 21.6 MB)

Vlenbo (see previous post)

So by comparing these with the other details from the positives 35 from justinslee and Placio74 and my negative results until Test 11 playlist http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EFD43BA14D7B1958 , and for every member, if they follow the same we will have soon enough videos and the upload details, so something will come out about format 35, no?

Placio74, in your 35 positives do you used 29.97 as frame rate or other?

For some 35 what I see in common is:
. Frame Rate, 29.97
. Codec Profile, Main@L3.0 (MPEG-4)
. CABAC, Yes
. and worked well for Placio74 with Xvid
I will try these settings in the next tests.

Not to do with 35, but Test 08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0QrxLHcuiY didn’t generate format 13, first time, strange, also no "watch in HD" or "watch in high quality" but YouTube generated 22 (HD) and 18 (HQ).

PS – my mistake in a previous post, the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTXwPEO3joI by fascinationduo is not 16/9 but 4:3 with format 35 (at a very big bit rate, Codec profile : Baseline@L3.0, Frame rate : 29.970 fps but CABAC : No).

[Placio74]

...Placio74, in your 35 positives do you used 29.97 as frame rate or other?...

Various.
23.976, 24, 25, 29.97, ...

[Captain Satellite]

I'd be happy to post whatever details you'd like if you can instruct me how to do so. I got stereo on the HQ link on my latest video as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz4-elvlp4A

[Captain Satellite]

General
Complete name : H:\Adobe\Stray Cat Strut\Project_4\Movie_00_(Strut4).mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 53.2 MiB
Duration : 3mn 20s
Overall bit rate : 2 231 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2009-01-01 19:15:02
Tagged date : UTC 2009-01-01 19:15:02

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 3mn 20s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 070 Kbps
Width : 640 pixels
Height : 360 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.300
Stream size : 49.4 MiB (93%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2009-01-01 19:15:02
Tagged date : UTC 2009-01-01 19:15:02

Audio
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 3mn 20s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 159 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 3.80 MiB (7%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2009-01-01 19:15:02
Tagged date : UTC 2009-01-01 19:15:02

[qatestdev]

Thanks Placio74, so works even below 25 fps.

Thanks Captain Satellite, you figured out, well done.

Maybe CABAC has no influence, we need more tests, all mine are negative at http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EFD43BA14D7B1958 , perhaps I need to change to other encoder besides Super?

[tworegon]

Just wonderful. Youtube has gone and re-encoded to mono, some of the older videos that were uploaded with the old stereo flash file trick (pre May 2008). Just some so far. If you have some of these older stereo videos, you will want to monitor them.

So far, it seems to only seems to affect my stereo videos from the April/May 2008 time frame. Older ones are still stereo - for now.

[qatestdev]

tworegon, just check the other until 9 different video formats generated by YouTube for each upload video (less for the pre May 2008), but some (until 5) will be stereo like 13 (usually 2 identical channels, like mono), 18, 22, 34 and the mysterious 35.

Placio74 has posted the specs for 4:3 upload videos and for 16/9 you could find a table at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUK91sDULm4 , for more details on 16/9 and stereo the playlist is http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=916F4B579EFA8FB3 .

So for the moment only remains mysteriously the format 35 (I think will be much appreciated by Windows Movie Maker users). 8)

[frifox]

At this moment...

Standard (fmt=0 ?) > MP3, ~64 kbps, 22.05 KHz, mono (1 channel)
fmt=5 > MP3, ~64 kbps, 22.05 KHz, mono (1 channel) (little difference in video bitrate)
fmt=6 > MP3, ~66 kbps, 44.1 KHz, mono (1 channel)
fmt=18 > AAC, ~126 kbps, 44.1 KHz, stereo (2 channels)
fmt=22 > AAC, ~248 kbps, 44.1 KHz, stereo (2 channels) (it's rare, only if uploaded video have 720p)
fmt=34 > AAC, ~68 kbps, 22.05 KHz, stereo (2 channels)
fmt=35 > AAC, ~112 kbps, 44.1 KHz, stereo (2 channels) (it's rare, example here)

fmt=13 and fmt=17 > only on mobile devices (3GP with AMR or AAC audio)

i did my own tests and came out with more detailed results... just sharing what i found



and for those who wish to compare the video/audio quality, here is the source video along with resulting 9 video versions from youtube. the source video used is "Artbeats HD Demo Reel 2008". it has slow, fast, simple, complex scenes and all other types that you can think of so it was a perfect candidate to put youtube under some video encoding stress tests
Source (69MB): http://rapidshare.com/files/181209491/Source.mp4.html
Output (64MB): http://rapidshare.com/files/181209496/Output.rar.html

PS: for the resulting video files, i moved fmt=34 and fmt=35 videos into MP4 containers. VLC and MPClassic couldnt play the video when they were in the original FLV container. dont worry, no re-encoding took place so the video/audio streams are still original


oh, and one more thing... for those who still dont know how to download the specific video versions from youtube, go to video page and then paste the following into the address bar (changing &fmt=18 according to what versions you wish to download) and hit enter:
javascript:window.location.href='http://youtube.com/get_video?video_id='+swfArgs['video_id']+'&t='+swfArgs['t']+"&fmt=18";

[mikejf]

thanks for all the testing! Yet I'm not sure- is there a format that will play stereo as YT default and still has decent video quality? Without having to click Watch in HD, or adding &fmt?

[mikejf]

for example, this recently uploaded video plays stereo as default and has decent video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_by8DpdAIPw&feature=channel_page

what format specs is this video?

edit 1.27.09: I found out the person who uploaded said they used "divx compression for the video and wav for audio "

[k.]

Anyone know how to get a non 4/3 fmt=35 HQ link?

I once uploaded and avi (xvid) file with a 832x312 resolution, 1500 kbps bitrate, and it was converted to a 640x240 flv file with h264 video and aac audio. I've tried using the same specs with other videos but all I get is a fmt=6 HQ link.

[frifox]

for example, this recently uploaded video plays stereo as default and has decent video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_by8DpdAIPw&feature=channel_page

what format specs is this video?

one of my vids plays stereo by default as well. in fact its the "fmt=34" version...
the interesting part is that the video was made by one of my scripts, and all (except 4 vids) other videos made by same script did NOT stream fmt=34 by default seems like youtube rolls the dice to figure out which videos stream fmt=34 by default and which do not lol

oh, and video wasnt too bad either... H264 @ 640x360


Source video specs:

General
Complete name                    : Headstrong - The Truth (David West Progressive Mix).mp4
Format                           : MPEG-4
Codec ID                         : isom
File size                        : 60.1 MiB
Duration                         : 6mn 30s
Overall bit rate                 : 1 293 Kbps

Video
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Main@L3.1
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 6mn 30s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 1 043 Kbps
Width                            : 1 280 pixels
Height                           : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16/9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 30.000 fps
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.038
Stream size                      : 48.5 MiB (81%)
Writing library                  : x264 core 65 r1074M b6bb3d4
Encoding settings                : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=0:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=hex / subme=1 / psy_rd=0.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=12 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=0 / keyint=28 / keyint_min=15 / scenecut=-1 / rc=cqp / qp=10 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=0

Audio
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version                   : Version 4
Format profile                   : LC
Codec ID                         : 40
Duration                         : 6mn 30s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 246 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : L R
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
Resolution                       : 16 bits
Stream size                      : 11.4 MiB (19%)

[frifox]

just did one more test... created 2 videos, both with same video streams but with different audio streams. one with equal left and right channels and the other with highly different left and right channels.

Vid #1, linear signal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiZwdFi_iJI

Vid #2, revolving signal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grWAwaUy-fg


as you can see, vid #1 streams in LQ by default, and vid #2 streams HQ by default.
so, it seems that youtube doesnt roll the dice for stream-in-HQ-by-default after all .
streaming in HQ by default depends on how "stereo" your audio track is in your video.

[codechan]

oh, and one more thing... for those who still dont know how to download the specific video versions from youtube, go to video page and then paste the following into the address bar (changing &fmt=18 according to what versions you wish to download) and hit enter:
javascript:window.location.href='http://youtube.com/get_video?video_id='+swfArgs['video_id']+'&t='+swfArgs['t']+"&fmt=18";

I dumb it down a little bit somewhere in this topic:
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic356888.html

as you can see, vid #1 streams in LQ by default, and vid #2 streams HQ by default.

And that also applies off of YouTube and i can prove it:

http://www.youtube.com/v/f-XyxEaBuog mono
http://www.youtube.com/v/f-XyxEaBuog&ap=%2526fmt%3d22 stereo

http://www.youtube.com/v/grWAwaUy-fg stereo
http://www.youtube.com/v/grWAwaUy-fg&ap=%2526fmt%3d22 stereo

They both load this http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf
And the thumbs the same
http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/grWAwaUy-fg/hqdefault.jpg
http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/f-XyxEaBuog/hqdefault.jpg

Maybe they should just skip mono conversions -_^

Well YouTube did just finish 'maintenance', though their changes sometimes take weeks to propagate afterward, It'd be nice to not have to beg people to click the HD button and have it force HD in the playback setup as well. And the streams are coming in plenty fast to have 60fps work out. But if they decide to remain 30-maximum, i can always get my HD video here:

http://zoome.jp/sabishirop/diary/120/
its >2MBps and 60fps HD works out for them :P

[themaster1]

Is there an HD equivalent that works on Youtube for the PAL videos?

1280x720p works great but it's for ntsc 16/9

I tried 1440x1152 (= 720x2 576x2) but it didn't work

[minidv2dvd]

haven't tried it but it should be 1536x864p. make sure the bitrate is over 4mbps mp4.

[manono]

1280x720p works great but it's for ntsc 16/9

No it's not; it's for both PAL and NTSC 16:9.

I tried 1440x1152 (= 720x2 576x2) but it didn't work

Of course it didn't. It's 1.25:1. It's not even in the correct aspect ratio (of 1.78:1). Do a proper Hi-Def resize and try again. minidv2dvd's suggested resolution should also work.

If, however, your source is 4:3, then encode it for some 1.33:1 Hi-Def resolution - maybe try 1440x1080.

[themaster1]

right that's 540 not 576 my bad..

for the record i post the right dimensions:

ntsc:
640 x 360 (16/9) = 1280 x 720(16/9)

pal:
720 x 540 (4/3) = 1440 x 1080 (4/3)
720 x 405 (16/9) = 1440 x 810 (16/9)

[manono]

Everything you wrote is nonsense. There's nothing at all NTSC about 640x360, 1280x720, 720x540, or 1440x1080. And there's nothing PAL about 720x405 or 1440x810. 720x405 isn't even an allowed resolution for many video formats.

[themaster1]

Well i'm not an expert but:

4/3 = 1,333333333
16/9 = 1,777777778
------------------------
Hence the results i found:

NTSC:
640/480 = 1,333333333 (4/3)
640/360 = 1,777777778 (16/9)


640x2 = 1280
360x2 = 720
480x2 = 960

PAL:
720/540 = 1,333333333 (4/3)
720/405 = 1,777777778 (16/9)

720x2 = 1440
540x2 = 1080
405x2 = 810

That's how my logic worked

On a side note: i'm interested in cropping my 4/3 vids as best as possible so there are no ratio errors hence the 360 and 405.

[minidv2dvd]

ummm..... pal and ntsc don't really mean much unless it's for tv display like a dvd mpeg-2. and then you are talking about non-square pixels anyway. the only time you will get "exact" dimensions like you are listing is for square pixel type avi. cropping isn't the way to prevent ratio errors.

[themaster1]

Yeah but the tricky part concerns Youtube because it seems the highest format available is 1280x720 (16/9) no matter what you do (correct me if i'm wrong) so i thought..why not doing the things properly, transform my 4/3 vids in 16/9 beforehand?

[minidv2dvd]

you can encode 4:3 into a 16/9 box. it will just have black bars on both sides. that way you don't crop off any of the video. better yet start shooting in widescreen!

[Ronkis]

its not possible to get a video like this right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxRxBWvGPBM

watch in HD..

only possible for big sites or companys or so right?

[Captain Satellite]

I'm surprised nobody has posted about this yet. I can't get the high quality link on my uploads anymore. According to YouTube, you only get the high quality link if there is a big difference between normal and high quality. You can get 'high quality' by adding &fmt=18 but it isn't nearly as sharp as before.

Does anybody know of any workarounds without going HD?

""We made improvements to standard quality for video uploads! Unless there is a large difference between standard quality and HQ , the upload will produce standard quality by default (and not HQ as before)."

Discussion on YouTube forum

[Placio74]

Indeed.

For new upload clips...
Format 34 is now playing by default.
Also missing HQ.

Format 6 and 35 is unavailable (not created/transcoded) - format 18 still available, but...
HQ link does not show (probably because format 18 from some time ago has not been default for HQ).

Something is improved, but also something worsened.

[EDIT]
When trying next day...
For some clips works (format 34 as default and format 35 as HQ), for some other not.

[EDIT]
It would appear that these were temporary problems...
At this moment, for most clips (for some old too) i have:
- standard = format 34
- HQ = format 35