Authoring HDTV content to DVD

[pyrohydra]

Note: This is not the typical "can I record HDTV to DVD" question.

Suppose for a second that I can get access to 1080i content muxed into an MPEG program stream, perhaps by pulling it off of an HD-enabled PVR. Would it be possible to run the file through DVD patcher and change the header res and bitrate to something DVD-compliant, such as 720x480 and 8 mbps - author with a program such as TMPGEnc DVD Author, patch the VTS VOBS back to 1080i, burn to a DVDR disc, and then be able to play back that disc in a PC (NOT a standalone). I estimate that I'll be able to fit at least 45 minutes of HDTV content onto a DL disc.

What I'm mainly trying to accomplish is to archive HDTV content to disc, and then be able to play them back using a PC with a DVD-ROM drive connected to a HDTV monitor (using a DVI video card), perhaps using MythTv as a front-end. The reason I want to author it as I would a DVD is mainly for the menus, and perhaps for future compatibility with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players, if those new standards keep using the same VIDEO_TS system.

I'm wondering if anyone else here has attempted this before - as I have no access to HDTV content currently. I'm curious as to the numerous ways an authoring app such as TMPGenc could choke on such content, even after patching, and if DVD-ROMs are fast enough to play HDTV content.

[flaninacupboard]

i think first thing you need to check is if your software decoder can decode an HD stream.

4X DVD read is good for 44Mbps, should be enough for HD.

Tryan encoding a short clip of HD material and test it with your author app, TMPGenc should be able to do a HD stream for you, but i believe you'll need to switch to MP:HL rather than MP:ML

[pyrohydra]

Oh cool, thanks. I had previously tried to make a 1080i with TMPGEnc but it kept growling at me. I also found a place where I can download some. At any rate, now I can do some testing, and I'll post my results here.

[pyrohydra]

Ok I have some results.

TMPGEnc accepted my 1080i video fine, once I patched the header to a DVD-compliant resolution. Once authored I patched the VTS vob back to 1080i and burned to DVD.

PowerDVD: Would play audio but no video
WMP: Crashed when attempting to load the file
Media Player Classic: Played fine. However, from the statistics I couldn't tell 100% what resolution it was being played back as. The statistic told me it was playing back a 720x480 clip, but I have reason to doubt this. First, it also said the clip's aspect ratio was 4:3 while it was actually 16:9 (and it looked like it was playing back at 16:9). Second, I loaded another DVD-R that I have that's 480x480, but also authored by TMPGEnc. According to the statistics on this disc, it was playing back at 720x480. Third, when MPC loaded the 1080i video, it automatically enlarged the playback window so that it almost covered my screen. This did not happen either with the 480x480 disc or a commercial 720x480 disc.

I'm not entirely sure how the software players work...under what circumstances do they resize the video. Obviously it wouldn't be able to play a 1080i video at full res without going off my screen (my desktop res is 1600x1200). EDIT: perhaps it's being deinterlaced?

Well there you go.

edit: I should add that, while playing, my CPU was maxed to 100% the entire time. I have a 2 GHz P4, so I suppose this is to be expected.

[BJ_M]

HD material -- when encoded to mpeg2 (tmpgenc will do this fine) is ussually multiplexed into a transport stream and played that way ...

a basic data rate of 19.4meg/s is the low end of the scale ...but what is used in broadcast .


plus ac3 audio included in the transport stream .

the multiplexors used for making VOBs in a dvd will not be able to handle the high data rate properly -- though in truth , software players can still handle it ussually ..

powerdvd sucks at HD , but media player clasic , windvd and some other players can play back transport streams ...

but not off a DATA or Video DVD from a dvd player ... not in mpeg2 , at least not smoothly always ..

using a later version ati video card will help though as all decoding will be done in hardware or using a mdp100/200 HD card.

you can use mpeg-vcr to multiplex hd transport streams , but its not the best at it at all .. Manzanita Systems is the best , but expensive ..

[pyrohydra]

Thanks for the info BJ_M. I just found out that emule has sample 1080i program streams AND transport streams available. I only want to deal with pre-muxed streams for the time being.

I guess I can't really tell if this will work 100% unless I buy a HD monitor and a DVI vid card. It seems like it'll work as long as the playback device has a DVD-ROM, software that'll play 1080i, and lots of CPU power.

Just for shits and giggles, I went ahead and tried playing the 1080i DVD in my standalone Philips DVP-642, which is connected to an ordinary 20 inch TV . Much to my surprise, it actually tried to play the thing, displaying a corner of the total picture on my screen. However the video would pause and skip constantly, leaving me to believe that the player wasn't spinning the disc fast enough for 19.4 mbps, and/or its decoder couldn't handle it (most likely the decoder).

[BJ_M]

also -- a little further info ... the statistics / details on MPC are way off on resolution and playing time (sometimes) on hd files .. dont believe it ....

windvd will not report correct data rate , but gets the resolution correct, its hit or miss on lenth , if closed gops used and CBR , its pretty close ..
HD is ussually encoded cbr and often closed gops (for compatability with some HD players)

bitrate viewer gets it all correct 100% of the time ..

mainconcept encoder gets the lenth, res, frames and frame rate right , so does Sony Vegas.. (im taking about your encoded files still)

[pyrohydra]

Does anyone who has a HTPC and an HDTV (preferably connected w/DVI) want to give this a shot? It seems like a neat idea (at least to me) to make DVD-Video with menus and 1080i content - to be played back in a HTPC.

[flaninacupboard]

DJrumpy just got his TV hooked up to his pc, give him a shout

[BJ_M]

i just play them off my blu-ray or off my hd server 's hard drive ..

[djmattyb]

If you are making DVD's that will only be played back on a HTPC, why not do all your HD encoding using Windows Media 9 that actually supports 1080 resolution? In the future, DVD players will be able to play WM9 files so if you start encoding with that format now, when the players hit the market, you will have something to play on them. Like the D3 from VINC.

http://www.vinc.com/news_info.asp?type=3i

To let you know, the DVD T2 Extreme has a HD WM9 version, when played on a PC out to my Panasonic plasma via DVI it looks great. This sound like what you are trying to do.

[pyrohydra]

If you are making DVD's that will only be played back on a HTPC, why not do all your HD encoding using Windows Media 9 that actually supports 1080 resolution? In the future, DVD players will be able to play WM9 files so if you start encoding with that format now, when the players hit the market, you will have something to play on them. Like the D3 from VINC.

http://www.vinc.com/news_info.asp?type=3i

To let you know, the DVD T2 Extreme has a HD WM9 version, when played on a PC out to my Panasonic plasma via DVI it looks great. This sound like what you are trying to do.

Well, I really don't intend to do any (re)encoding. I simply want to rip the HD content from my source (whether it's an HD Tivo, cable box, or whatever), cut commercials, mux it to a program stream, and author/burn. The limiting factor is how much I can fit on a single disc. I suppose I would be creating something resembling SVCD, (45-50 minutes on a DVD-9). Maybe it can be called a Super DVD (SDVD)..heh.

I'm pretty far away from actually buying HD equipment, I'm just speculating as to what I could do. I guess a hard disk would be an obvious option, as well as D-VHS (although I kind of want to stay clear of magnetic media), blu-ray and HD-DVD. Perhaps when I finally buy my equipment this won't be an issue.

[Arky]

You might like to take a quick peek at this:

http://www.codeproject.com/csharp/Program_Stream_Analyzer.asp

There was a lot of interest in the Microsoft HD stuff at NAB (Las Vegas) this year. I got a demo disk but the PC specs just for playback are quite intimidating! The stuff they were showing at NAB looked pretty damn good on a large projector, and great on a 20" monitor. The shadows were quite well resolved, too.


Arky ;o)