Somebody please help a desperate soul find a definite soluti

[homerpez]

I've posted this before, with no response, so here it is again.

I have a problem where I get "synch drift" when I encode with TMPGEnc only (just encode, then NERO burn in VCD format). This is on a VBR MPEG-1 VCD. This effect is where video motion suddenly goes haywire, while audio continues.

The 'wise' here say "re-multiplex with bbMPEG". This solves the synch problem, but leaves me with blips in the movie (flurry of macroblocks, then it continues). Same spots in the movie, even if burned on separate discs, etc. I's bbMPEG causing this. And my Apex doesn't like it one bit.

I then tried to re-multiplex with TMPGEnc. This left me with absolutely no "blip" effects, but there was still a litlle synch drift left (it would eventually synch back up if you let it play a few seconds).

So either way, I can't win!

Someone please answer this question: is there any better (perfect) multiplexing solution OTHER THAN TMPGEnc ot bbMPEG?...

note: suggested proggy MUST be able to fully supprta VBR MPEG-1, that's kind if the whole point...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-23 20:07:24 ]</font>

[homerpez]

...anyone at all?

[Elco]

I think it had something to do with the MUX-rate.
Err... don't know what it is, just post a topic some hour ago, hoping someone gives some answers.
But I had some sort of a experience, AND bbMPEG warning me about a low "MUX-rate". Hope we both get some answers...

[Vejita-sama]

How are you muxing with bbMPEG encode? I don't know what your video source is but assuming DVD:

1) Use DVD2AVI to generate D2V and wav file
2) Use tooLame to convert wav to MP2 file
3) Use TMPGenc to ONLY encode the video -> MPV file
4) Use bbMPEG to mux the MPV + MP2 -> MPG

if you don't already have tooLame d/load the stable ver NOT the newest beta, it's got problems

[homerpez]

Elco: With my MUX rate, I have tried both "0" (for auto detect) and "32767" (the max it says is allowable for a VBR MPEG-1 VCD format). I checked off "VBR", "Align Headers", "Pad VCD Audio". On both MUX rates, I get no (or few) errors displayed. BUT I GET GLITCHES!

Vejita-sama: Could maybe, just maybe, my problem be because I encoded the video/audio using TMPGEnc at the same time? I can't see why this would make a glitch in the stream only when it gets to bbMPEG, but I'll try anything once.

So I should be doing it separately, just make a video-only stream in TMPGEnc first, then a separate .mp2 audio only using tooLAME? (as TMPGEnc plugin I assume?) I'm baffled as to why this would create multiplexing stream glitches, but I appreciate any assistance. I'll definitely try it out.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-24 10:07:08 ]</font>

[homerpez]

Forgot to ask too: What settings/mux rate SHOULD I be using for a MPEG-1 VBR VCD? I think I'm doing the right checkboxes and such, but I want to make sure this really isn't something simple and stupid... thanks!

[homerpez]

Just an update (like anyone cares)... I have defnitely found bbMPEG to be the sole culprit. Why?

I took one of my "glitchy" bbMPEG-multiplexed discs, ripped the .dat to .mpg format. I de/re-muxed with bbmpeg again, and burned. Same glitches, same spots again.

I then took the same ripped video/audio files, and this time muxed with TMPGEnc. Suprisingly, the glitches disappeared. But, massive synch drift again (catch-22).

So, I desperately need some bbMPEG help. I must be doing something really wrong. Is there some massive help page on bbMPEG somehwhere? (I mean besides the "help" file, and their homepage... both are not "help"-ful at all)!

Also just tried I-Author's multiplexer. Errors everywhere, didn't work right at all, and said my disk was full! (I only have 24 Gigs free, well excuse me)!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-24 20:11:39 ]</font>

[cmoore]

I hope you find an answer. I also have the same problem. I feel the problem is that I don't know how to use bbmpeg that well and am hoping someone can give us the "magic" settings for bbmpeg. Better yet would be to go to the root of the problem and stop tmpgenc from producing files like this.

Summary of potential problems/fixes

Tmpeenc – Use these setting while encoding to stop A/V sync errors
Detect scene change – OFF
No motion search for still picture part by half pixel – ON

Multiplex with bbmpeg
Set mux rate to 0
Computed mux rate – MAX

Of course none of the above has worked for me but I haven’t done “lab” testing either. My question for everyone is how to figure the ideal mux rate?

[next]

I can only respond to a workaround I found for Mpeg2 files with A/V sync problems. This workaround may work for Mpeg1 sync issues as well.

For VBR:

1. Demux the file in M2-edit. Mux the two resulting video and audio streams in Mpeg2vcr. I mux the file as an SVCD program stream. I think you can mux Mpeg1 as a VCD program stream.

2. Edit/cut the file to your liking in Mpeg2vcr.

For CBR:

1. Cut/edit the file to your liking in M2-edit.

2. Demux/mux the resulting cuts in Mpeg2vcr. I save the muxed cuts as an SVCD program stream.

Both VBR and CBR have to be handled differently. If you look closely you'll notice the difference in the above methods. What works for one doesn't work for the other.

Many people do not have any A/V sync problems. I did and what I mention above was the only solution I found (after many many hours - days). It works 100% for me.

You can also try to offset the audio stream. This is a guessing game though and I hated the process. My above suggestions do not need the audio offset adjustment.

If anybody else has any other suggestions please post.

edit -

I forgot to mention when you demux in M2-edit the resulting files will be huge. Don't worry. The file gets back to normal after you mux in Mpeg2vcr.

Also this process is very very fast. Mpeg2vcr can demux an 800 meg file in about a minute.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: next on 2001-08-25 08:14:27 ]</font>

[homerpez]

Does bbMPEG work any better for SVCD multiplexing, or should I expect the same?

I ask, because I just tried (get this now...) an SVCD, with 128k audio, and an AVG bitrate of only 1080! And, with 480x480 resolution, it came out as good, if not better, than any of the MPEG-1's I ever did! (This is using CCE, of course, and I never got that program to work for MPEG-1). Most importantly, 90 minutes on only 1 CD!

Someone said I should just make SVCD's, that would solve the whole thing... I sure hope so, but with my luck I'll go to burn this and it wont work on my player...

Also, where can you get either M2-edit and mpegvcr? I've run search after search, looks like they've fallen from the face of Earth. Even VCDSpain doen't have 'em...

Oh, well... thanks...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-25 09:19:48 ]</font>

[homerpez]

wait... yes they do

Womble sucks. (isn't THAT an intelligent review)!

I tried several times to multiplex, and every time it was out-of synch (and couldn't be fixed, because it was different every try). Also, only PowerDVD would play the resulting file (Media Player and ATI player wouldn't). That can't be good either.


I also tried M1-edit to remux. Very picky, and also SUCKS. Couldn't remux as VCD, pecause specs weren't "perfect". Couldn't remux as MPEG-1 stream because of some stupid error with the audio or something.

BACK TO SQUARE ONE...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-25 17:01:56 ]</font>

[next]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-25 16:37:10, homerpez wrote:
wait... yes they do

Womble sucks. (isn't THAT an intelligent review)!

I tried several times to multiplex, and every time it was out-of synch (and couldn't be fixed, because it was different every try). Also, only PowerDVD would play the resulting file (Media Player and ATI player wouldn't). That can't be good either.

I'll try and find M1 or M2 edit, but maybe I can get by with doing SVCD's instead...


</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're still looking for M2-edit then there is no way that you could have followed my advise. You will need Womble Mpeg2vcr after you get M2-edit. Trust me I know I spent way too much time on this.

I also see you are leaning towards Mpeg2. I have been suggesting Mpeg2 to you since I first saw your problems. You seem to be comming around but at a very slow pace...

And don't delete Womble just yet.

Good luck!

[homerpez]

hmm... guess you answered as I edited...

I haven't deleted Womble, but I did uninstall it...

Keep in mind that this is still my original MPEG-1 streams I'm trying to remux (to avoid speedup/slowdown video, or alternately those random glitches)... so far nothing is working at all...

Maybe I will go to MPEG-2 (as I face hurls of insults from people saying my bitrates are way too low for SVCD, not knowing WHY I have to do it that way)... and maybe it'll work after bbMPEG muxes it?... and maybe play in my Apex...

Oh, that would be the perfect world

[next]

Go here for the demo version of M2-edit.

http://www.mediaware.com.au/M2-edit.html

I think the demo version will allow you to demux an mpeg2 file (I think).

Encode an mpeg2 VBR file. Demux the entire file in M2-edit. Then mux the video and audio streams in Mpeg2vcr. Save it as an SVCD program stream. Now open the muxed file in Mpeg2vcr and cut/edit the file if you need to.

For CBR do your cuts in M2-edit. Then demux/mux your cuts in Mpeg2vcr. Save the file as an mpeg2 SVCD program stream. Also if you get a VBR option when muxing the CBR file make sure the box is unchecked - and make sure it is checked if your file was originally VBR as in the above VBR example.

This always works for me - 100%. My mpeg2 files are real time captures with an AIW Pro 32 meg card though. Maybe that might have something to do with it as well.

[next]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I will go to MPEG-2 (as I face hurls of insults from people saying my bitrates are way too low for SVCD, not knowing WHY I have to do it that way)... and maybe it'll work after bbMPEG muxes it?... and maybe play in my Apex...

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not saying you're going to get great results with your low bit rates with mpeg2. I really think you are trying to do way too much - one CDR per movie. It almost seems like a waste of time. But if you have an Apex player and if it has a tendency to "glitch" with mpeg1 then trying mpeg2 may be a solution. I can only attest that moving to mpeg2 with Apex has worked for me. Your milage may vary.

[homerpez]

I don't know if this particular 90-minute movie was a good test of theory either... it was "Office Space"... not really a high-action thrillfest of motion! (Though I guess it had its moments)...

I still almost think there is some secret trick to this... but one nobody is sharing. Does "Aligning Sequence Headers" do anything nasty to MPEG-1's? (This is the last setting in bbMPEG I haven't played with... and I currently have it enabled). What's this for anyway?

Barring a miracle, I might be on the road to MPEG-2 City. Next, you may have a new convert.

[Elco]

Did some more tests and got bbMPEG muxing without errors or visable bad shots now, used settings;
- encoded with LSX, video only; simple VBR, 2350 max, 2000 average
- muxed with standard bbMPEG 1.4.4 b18 SVCD settings, but increased the startup delay form 180 > 230 ms.

At this moment I'm re-encoding the whole movie again with this settings and will et you know the results.

Btw, still need some testers for my semi-automatic DVD to SVCD rippack with guide. Even come up with a name for it; "easy2svcd" (yeah I know, not to original ). Anybody intrested?
Find out more on http://www.sterweb.net/easy2svcd if you like.

[Beavis]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-24 10:09:17, homerpez wrote:
Forgot to ask too: What settings/mux rate SHOULD I be using for a MPEG-1 VBR VCD? I think I'm doing the right checkboxes and such, but I want to make sure this really isn't something simple and stupid... thanks!
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you should consider the fact that VBR is fully implemented / supported in the SVCD standard and not at all in the VCD standard as significant.

[homerpez]

I think that MPEG-1 VBR should be working fine (it's soooo close right now)...

Elco... I'm now intrugued... you said you fixed this? As in you had these glitches before, you made a change, and they are gone?

If that's the case, I will try upping "Startup Delay"...

but wait. You did mpeg-2... SVCD settings... that probably won't help MPEG-1. But I'll try again anyway.

I'll try to run some more tests, too... keep ya posted...

[homerpez]

Ran more tests and... found a solution! Sort of.

I re-multiplexed my MPEG-1 movie, this time I did not select "Align Sequence Headers" under VCD mode. Then, I ran the movie through VCDImagerEasy, and sure enough, no glitches! Well, except for one...

When I put the disc in my Apex, it tried to play, and then stops. I can try over and over again, and it just sits there, play --> stop. It also has some weird menu system on it, with 4 choices on it. All of them play back weird crap in a small window, except #4 which says "Exit". Won't play right here either.

But, if I toggle either the "PBC ON/OFF" or "GOTO" features, then try playing the disc, it works! And no glitches in playback!

I guess this is okay, but it is annoying. At least no synch glitches once I do get it playing! Is there any fix for this problem, though? Something about VCDImager that's strange?

Stranger still, I made up my off spec SVCD (which looks amazing, I can't get over it, even at 1070 AVG bitrate), I used basically the SVCD defaul mux-ing in bbMPEG, the ran through VCDImagerEasy the same way as the "problem" disc, but this one WILL auto-play! No "GOTO" ability, but FF/RW works great, I'll make that trade-off any day...

What also sucks about this is I don't know if it was the "Add Sequence Headers" being disabled in bbMPEG for VCD, or if it was the use of a VCDImager .bin, that was very unscientific of me... but hey, the deed is done, and that problem is fixed!

Appreciate any help with VCDImager...

[homerpez]

The cause was definitely bbMPEG's "Align Sequence Headers"...

When used on a VCD, it seems, there are no standard headers to attach to, so trying to align them causes the glitch effect. For SVCD, it's checked and blocked out (you have to use it) so this was kind of what threw me off.

1 problem solved. Nobody cares.

[Xitanium]

err, are u using 500 passes or something ???? how are u getting good mpeg2 svcd at that bitrate, if i do a 4-pass vbr most movies have VERY little blockiness at 1500, and thats pushing it. also, what image priority are u using (the complex-flat slider) in cce?

[homerpez]

CCE doesn't produce macroblocks no matter what (just mosquitoes), but...

I used settings of 500 MIN, 1070 AVG, and 2300 MAX bitrate. then Separate 128k audio is multiplexed later on, with pulldown.exe on the video stream.

Slider was on "25 - Complex" I believe this is the default, but I used no noise filter. I think I also selected "ZigZag" scanning or something, which you're supposed to do on progressive (I used FILM rate source). 3 Passes.

It was a total of 798 MB in size, once muxed and run through VCDImager.

On quality, this again was not the best example of a test movie (there were motion scenes, but this wasn't special-effects-laden or anything). Since it was higher-res, the picture looked sharper than the VCD's I was making using MPEG-1 (same bitrate).

For me, the important test was the TV. I use a 19" still, but I could still see a remarkable difference. It was as sharp and clean as my DVDs are! My MPEG-1 VCD's at this bitrate were visibly lower resolution, and blocky at times. So I'm pleased!

I knew nobody would believe me

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-28 17:40:48 ]</font>