Good VCRs with auto tracking

[peanutsoup]

Does anyone know of any VCRs from reputable manufacturers that have auto tracking? That feature came in very handy on my Sony SLV-D360P, but I've had two of them die on me so I don't want to buy another one. Right now I'm looking at the JVC HR-VP646U. Whatever I buy, I plan to use it for digitization

[timtape]

Except for the earlier models, consumer VHS VCR's generally came with auto tracking as standard. Betamax didnt have auto tracking except for maybe a few later models. That's my understanding anyway.

[peanutsoup]

Except for the earlier models, consumer VHS VCR's generally came with auto tracking as standard. Betamax didnt have auto tracking except for maybe a few later models. That's my understanding anyway.

Good to know if true. I don't know a whole lot about the history of what features were on VCRs, so I assumed it was something (somewhat) special. Thanks for the reply

[dellsam34]

The condition of your tapes is the most important factor, auto tracking cannot fix bad tapes.

[peanutsoup]

The condition of your tapes is the most important factor, auto tracking cannot fix bad tapes.

I probably should've stated this in my post, but my goal with auto tracking is to be able to insert a tape and not have to worry about messing with tracking. I actually bought a TBC(-ish, it's actually just a DMR-ES15) a few months ago to deal with my poorer quality tapes

[timtape]

The condition of your tapes is the most important factor, auto tracking cannot fix bad tapes.

I probably should've stated this in my post, but my goal with auto tracking is to be able to insert a tape and not have to worry about messing with tracking. I actually bought a TBC(-ish, it's actually just a DMR-ES15) a few months ago to deal with my poorer quality tapes

Well it depends on what is poor in your poor quality tapes. After the fact devices can only do so much, and only on certain aspects. They cant fix everything with poor tapes or poor VCR's.

[lingyi]

Except for the earlier models, consumer VHS VCR's generally came with auto tracking as standard. Betamax didnt have auto tracking except for maybe a few later models. That's my understanding anyway.

mrbetamax.com states that only the Sony SL-HF2100 and SL-HF2000 had auto tracking. https://mrbetamax.com/AutoTracking.htm

I owned the SL-HF2100 and can confirm it had auto tracking, though I always turned if off for reasons detailed in my next post. He doesn't state the ED-Beta(s) had auto tracking, though some Google links claim they did and I vaguely think my EDV-7500s had it. Though I never used it.

It's possible some professional Beta machines had auto tracking, but I suspect not as pros likely want to manually control everything.

[lingyi]

The condition of your tapes is the most important factor, auto tracking cannot fix bad tapes.

I probably should've stated this in my post, but my goal with auto tracking is to be able to insert a tape and not have to worry about messing with tracking. I actually bought a TBC(-ish, it's actually just a DMR-ES15) a few months ago to deal with my poorer quality tapes

Well it depends on what is poor in your poor quality tapes. After the fact devices can only do so much, and only on certain aspects. They cant fix everything with poor tapes or poor VCR's.

+1

In my experience with auto tracking on my SL-HF2100 and one of my S-VHS machines, auto tracking would annoyingly continually adjust the tracking, taking several seconds and making the image much worse vs manual tracking, sometimes causing the Hi-Fi track to drop out. Very annoying!

In addition, especially for the Hi-Fi track, I would sometimes have to accept some extra noise on the bottom of the image to have the audio track play correctly. This was more likely with pre-recorded tapes, almost exclusively VHS during the latter (up to mid 2010's) part of my usage of my machines.

[peanutsoup]

Thanks for the input everyone. I ended up buying the HR-VP646U (so no one in the future has to go on the same goose chase I did, the remote model number is 733M).

RE: The discussion about TBCs
I am aware that they're not a catchall way to improve video quality and are moreso for fixing signal impurities (although I don't believe my line TBC (of sorts) does much beyond improving stabilization and head switching noise). And for anyone asking, no, I'm probably never going to buy a real TBC. They're simply too expensive for my quite amateur needs of digitizing home movies and EP TV recordings

[Sharc]

Thanks for the input everyone. I ended up buying the HR-VP646U (so no one in the future has to go on the same goose chase I did, the remote model number is 733M).

RE: The discussion about TBCs
I am aware that they're not a catchall way to improve video quality and are moreso for fixing signal impurities (although I don't believe my line TBC (of sorts) does much beyond improving stabilization and head switching noise). And for anyone asking, no, I'm probably never going to buy a real TBC. They're simply too expensive for my quite amateur needs of digitizing home movies and EP TV recordings

Your VCR is VHS with composite output only rather than S-Video. So your ES-15 in passthrough will not only eliminate the line wiggle but if configured correctly it will also separate Y/C (luma/chroma) properly due to its comb-filter which reduces dotcrawl and rainbow artifacts significantly. So it is good practice to always add the ES-15 to your workflow IMO.

[peanutsoup]

Your VCR is VHS with composite output only rather than S-Video. So your ES-15 in passthrough will not only eliminate the line wiggle but if configured correctly it will also separate Y/C (luma/chroma) properly due to its comb-filter which reduces dotcrawl and rainbow artifacts significantly. So it is good practice to always add the ES-15 to your workflow IMO.

That reminds me... Before people come at me for not buying an S-VHS VCR, I'll reiterate that I'm just an ameuter and the price those decks go for isn't worth it to me for what's the ultimately small improvement of removing dotcrawl. If I was running a digitization service (or if I had more money) I would definitely care about it more

[Sharc]

[QUOTE=peanutsoup;2797827]

Your VCR is VHS with composite output only rather than S-Video. So your ES-15 in passthrough will not only eliminate the line wiggle but if configured correctly it will also separate Y/C (luma/chroma) properly due to its comb-filter which reduces dotcrawl and rainbow artifacts significantly. So it is good practice to always add the ES-15 to your workflow IMO.

That reminds me... Before people come at me for not buying an S-VHS VCR, I'll reiterate that I'm just an ameuter and the price those decks go for isn't worth it to me for what's the ultimately small improvement of removing dotcrawl. If I was running a digitization service (or if I had more money) I would definitely care about it more

You don't have to buy anything extra. You wrote that you already own a DMR-ES15 so all I was recommending is to just use it in passthrough, together with your VCR.

[peanutsoup]

You don't have to buy anything extra. You wrote that you already own a DMR-ES15 so all I was recommending is to just use it in passthrough, together with your VCR.

Don't worry, I knew you weren't telling me to buy anything else. I'm glad there are some level headed people on this forum who understand that you don't have to own the best equipment ever made. This is the only video forum I have an account on, but from reading other sites, VH does seem to have the most average people on it. And in my eyes that's a good thing

[The_Doman]

That reminds me... Before people come at me for not buying an S-VHS VCR, I'll reiterate that I'm just an amateur the price those decks go for isn't worth it to me for what's the ultimately small improvement of removing dotcrawl. If I was running a digitization service (or if I had more money) I would definitely care about it more

Totally agree with this.
Now with good working S-VHS machines getting more and more difficult/expensive to find/get it is often much more feasible and flexible to use the DVD pass-thru option with a good working regular VCR.

I've found that the quality of a recording done with my VCR connected to a DVD recorder which outputs S Video is higher quality than if you use composite

Well yes exactly that is what i am also always doing when recording from composite.
You would expect the DVD recorder doing a better job separating/filtering the Y/C signals instead of most (simpler/cheaper?) capture devices.
Also of course combined with the stabilization and optional noise reduction of the recorder it can improve composite recording significantly.
I have several S-VHS/TBC decks too but often prefer capturing with a regular VHS through the Panasonic DVD recorder.

Using a S-Video signal/connection for the capture process almost always will improve the result because the capture cards/boxes often work better with a S-Video signal.
For this a good S-VHS TBC deck is then often the most preferred option but these days it is hard/expensive to find such good working machine.
For me, a good/excellent working regular VHS player combined with a DVD pass-though option can be a good (and sometimes better) alternative.

I have collected many regular VHS and some S-VHS players through the years from local sellers, used/thrift stores and have some similar experience as with this posting on Reddit when capturing regular VHS.
Reddit: For those who have S-VHS/Super VHS, is there a big difference in quality? And are they able to play regular VHS tapes?

I have a JVC HR-S5950 Super-VHS ET player, and a Sharp VC-MH741 VHS HQ player.
Still, with normal VHS tapes in good condition, the Sharp one wins every time. The picture is just sharper, no pun intended. With tapes in bad condition, the JVC, although it has a softer image than the Sharp, can clean up the image pretty good with it's "video stabilizer" and "B.E.S.T" functions, in a way that the Sharp can't.
So, best is to have more than one type of player if you're planning on doing any serious digitalization efforts.

I have both the named JVC HR-S5950 and Sharp VC-MH741 but i prefer to use one of my (many) Panasonic regular VHS models.

In my experience with auto tracking on my SL-HF2100 and one of my S-VHS machines, auto tracking would annoyingly continually adjust the tracking, taking several seconds and making the image much worse vs manual tracking, sometimes causing the Hi-Fi track to drop out. Very annoying!

Yes this.
VCR's wich do continuous auto tracking during playback without an option to turn it off can be a nuisance indeed when it thinks it needs to do adjustments when it is not needed/wanted.
An auto tracking function/button is of course useful/essential.
With many VCR's you can manually adjust tracking with channel/up/down buttons or otherwise.

@peanutsoup
In the HR-VP646U user manual there is information how to enable/disable the auto tracking mode.

[lollo]

That reminds me... Before people come at me for not buying an S-VHS VCR, I'll reiterate that I'm just an amateur the price those decks go for isn't worth it to me for what's the ultimately small improvement of removing dotcrawl. If I was running a digitization service (or if I had more money) I would definitely care about it more

Totally agree with this.
Now with good working S-VHS machines getting more and more difficult/expensive to find/get it is often much more feasible and flexible to use the DVD pass-thru option with a good working regular VCR.

The problem is that the DVD pass-trough option often introduce a loss of quality. I use my ES10/ES15 only when the time base correction of a high-end S-VHS VCR is not enough (it happens for poor tapes).
OTHH, OP does not care much about ultimate quality, so not really an issue here, just to clarify the principles.

[rgr]

That reminds me... Before people come at me for not buying an S-VHS VCR, I'll reiterate that I'm just an amateur the price those decks go for isn't worth it to me for what's the ultimately small improvement of removing dotcrawl. If I was running a digitization service (or if I had more money) I would definitely care about it more

Totally agree with this.
Now with good working S-VHS machines getting more and more difficult/expensive to find/get it is often much more feasible and flexible to use the DVD pass-thru option with a good working regular VCR.

The problem is that the DVD pass-trough option often introduce a loss of quality.

It all depends.
A Sony VCR connected via cheap RCA cables via a Panasonic DMR is a class above in terms of image detail compared to the JVC 6 and 7 series SVHS (with TBC and in Edit mode) connected directly to the card.

[lollo]

It all depends.
A Sony VCR connected via cheap RCA cables via a Panasonic DMR is a class above in terms of image detail compared to the JVC 6 and 7 series SVHS (with TBC and in Edit mode) connected directly to the card.

It depends on the conditions of the VCRs. In principle that is not credible, but I rarely worked with 7XXX and never with 6XXX series, focused more on 9XXX machines.

[rgr]

All 2+3 units tested produced similar videos. And in the case of the JVC, I'd even say that the higher the number, the worse the result.

[dellsam34]

It's hard to compare VCRs at this point in time, It has been almost 40 decades starting just from the 90's. Even back then, to conclude a judgment, it has to be based on several comparisons and tests not just one VCR brand vs one VCR brand, One can have a personal preference about brands but the fact is a DVD recorder can never substitute a VCR with built in TBC if we were talking few decades ago and even today with serviced hardware.

[lollo]

All 2+3 units tested produced similar videos. And in the case of the JVC, I'd even say that the higher the number, the worse the result.

Not credible, nor confirmed on my side.

It's hard to compare VCRs at this point in time, It has been almost 40 decades starting just from the 90's. Even back then, to conclude a judgment, it has to be based on several comparisons and tests not just one VCR brand vs one VCR brand, One can have a personal preference about brands but the fact is a DVD recorder can never substitute a VCR with built in TBC if we were talking few decades ago and even today with serviced hardware.

I agree 101%

[rgr]

the fact is a DVD recorder can never substitute a VCR with built in TBC if we were talking few decades ago and even today with serviced hardware.

Not necessarily.
In 90% (maybe even 99%) of cases, DVD Recorder passthrough will produce the same result as a VCR with TBC.

[rgr]

All 2+3 units tested produced similar videos. And in the case of the JVC, I'd even say that the higher the number, the worse the result.

Not credible, nor confirmed on my side.

You couldn't even detect that AmarecTV was dropping frames, so I'm not surprised

I bet even the audio from Panasonic or Sony sounds the same to you as from JVC :P

[lollo]

the fact is a DVD recorder can never substitute a VCR with built in TBC if we were talking few decades ago and even today with serviced hardware.

Not necessarily.
In 90% (maybe even 99%) of cases, DVD Recorder passthrough will produce the same result as a VCR with TBC.

Complete non sense and 100% bullshit!

You couldn't even detect that AmarecTV was dropping frames, so I'm not surprised

Because it does not, your tests are flawed!

I bet even the audio from Panasonic or Sony sounds the same to you as from JVC :P

Do not try to put smoke in the eyes, stay on topic!

[rgr]

the fact is a DVD recorder can never substitute a VCR with built in TBC if we were talking few decades ago and even today with serviced hardware.

Not necessarily.
In 90% (maybe even 99%) of cases, DVD Recorder passthrough will produce the same result as a VCR with TBC.

Complete non sense and 100% bullshit!

You couldn't even detect that AmarecTV was dropping frames, so I'm not surprised

Because it does not, your tests are flawed!

I bet even the audio from Panasonic or Sony sounds the same to you as from JVC :P

Do not try to put smoke in the eyes, stay on topic!

After all, you were the first to start writing about DVD recorders.

[lollo]

After all, you were the first to start writing about DVD recorders.

Sure, look post #14 (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/420610-Good-VCRs-with-auto-tracking#post2797846).

You are not even able to read and pretend to discuss about VCRs, DVD-Recorders in pass-thorugh mode and Capture software.