Time Base Corrector Capture Box Combo Question

[dellsam34]

Hello everyone I'm an old new member here, my old log in for some raison was lost so I had to register again, Anyway for a family VHS/S-VHS tapes transfer I'm looking for a capture card or an external box that can capture losselessly in 4:2:2 and built in full frame TBC, I will be using VertualDub with Huffyuv plug in. I have JVC HR-S7600 S-VHS deck with in line TBC, I would like to find a capture card or external box that has full frame TBC capability instead of using the capture device and an external TBC, The idea behind my question is since the external TBC digitizes and processes in full frames why convert back to analogue and not just take those frames and feed them to the computer? My second question is: it's a common practice that people feed analog signal to an external TBC that does 4:2:2 10bit or 12bit and after TBC converts back to analogue the analog signal is captured with a card that does only 4:1:1 8bit, or vise versa, Shouldn't the external TBC spec. matches the capture card spec. ? How big is the generational loss?
If such card or device exists I don't mind the price because will be selling it right after the project ends. Also no need for DV devices recommendation, Thank you.

[Brad]

Since money is no object:
http://www.ensembledesigns.com/products/brighteye/be75

You will need a capture card that accepts SDI input, or an external recorder like the Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2. To send audio into the TBC, you will need to make or find an RCA -> Phoenix adapter.

However, don't expect perfection...
"BrightEye is not 100% tolerant to bad signals (home video). It will glitch easily. Because of this I haven't retired TBC-100 because it's needed from time to time alongside with BrightEye."

A TBC doesn't do anything that a capture card can't, in principle. There are TBCs that go nuts when fed certain signals just like most capture cards will fail to decode bad video input. They drop frames just like capture cards do; they just hide it from the user since (1) they don't have a display that counts missed frames and (2) they hopefully allow for stable A/V sync.

What you're really asking for is a capture card that is particularly tolerant of unstable inputs and won't cause audio sync problems when it fails and has to drop or insert frames.

[dellsam34]

Since money is no object:
http://www.ensembledesigns.com/products/brighteye/be75

You will need a capture card that accepts SDI input, or an external recorder like the Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2. To send audio into the TBC, you will need to make or find an RCA -> Phoenix adapter.

However, don't expect perfection...
"BrightEye is not 100% tolerant to bad signals (home video). It will glitch easily. Because of this I haven't retired TBC-100 because it's needed from time to time alongside with BrightEye."

A TBC doesn't do anything that a capture card can't, in principle. There are TBCs that go nuts when fed certain signals just like most capture cards will fail to decode bad video input. They drop frames just like capture cards do; they just hide it from the user since (1) they don't have a display that counts missed frames and (2) they hopefully allow for stable A/V sync.

What you're really asking for is a capture card that is particularly tolerant of unstable inputs and won't cause audio sync problems when it fails and has to drop or insert frames.

So you're saying that a full frame TBC is not required if I don't mind stitching several video segments together? do you think the line in TBC on the JVC deck is enough for making a good capture along with a decent capture card? the recommended BrightEye 75 is a good choice except that I have to deal with SDI since I have a laptop, would have been perfect if it had firewire.

[dellsam34]

I just re read your post and have another question, Why would I need a SDI card if the box has a USB port? is it not designed for video capturing to a computer?

Edit: Never mind I can answer this myself, after reading the manual the USB port is for controlling the device from a computer, I should have known that since the USB is not enough to transfer losseless digital video even in SD.

[JVRaines]

do you think the line in TBC on the JVC deck is enough for making a good capture along with a decent capture card?

I frequently get good captures from my JVC HR-S9911U without using a frame synchronizer. It really depends on the recording. If there is vertical jitter, then the frame sync becomes necessary (and doesn't always eliminate it).

[Brad]

You asked about a capture "card" and didn't mention needing to use a laptop previously. There are USB capture cards that take SDI input, but all the ones I see are far more expensive than the standard def SDI capture boards since they all support HD input.

So you're saying that a full frame TBC is not required if I don't mind stitching several video segments together?

That isn't what I'm saying, no.

would have been perfect if it had firewire.

There are only two standards for Firewire video transfer: DV and MPEG-2 TS.

USB is not enough to transfer losseless digital video even in SD.

USB 2.0 can do uncompressed SD, and USB 3.0 can do uncompressed 1080p60. Perhaps higher.

P.S. What is your avatar showing?

[dellsam34]

You asked about a capture "card" and didn't mention needing to use a laptop previously. There are USB capture cards that take SDI input, but all the ones I see are far more expensive than the standard def SDI capture boards since they all support HD input.

Sorry should have mentioned that, I don't do this for a living otherwise I would have bought a desktop PC, I was under the impression that there is a single box solution for a laptop like the Edirol VMC1 but I guess I was dreaming, Like I mentioned above I don't like the idea of an external TBC that converts A to D and then D to A and later A to D at the capture device, The BrightEye 75 is the perfect solution if it did have a way to hookup to a laptop, I like the way that it handles all the processing digitally without going back to analogue afterwards. I'll keep an eye and see if I can find a cheap SDI expresscard 34 adapter to use with my laptop and a used brightEye 75 online.

Oh almost forgot, my avatar shows a bunch of video tapes.

[Brad]

I was under the impression that there is a single box solution for a laptop like the Edirol VMC1 but I guess I was dreaming

I'm not aware of one that advertises TBC abilities, at least.

see if I can find a cheap SDI expresscard 34 adapter to use with my laptop and a used brightEye 75 online.

So much for not minding the price.

Oh almost forgot, my avatar shows a bunch of video tapes.

Not yours, I hope!

[dellsam34]

I was under the impression that there is a single box solution for a laptop like the Edirol VMC1 but I guess I was dreaming

I'm not aware of one that advertises TBC abilities, at least.

see if I can find a cheap SDI expresscard 34 adapter to use with my laptop and a used brightEye 75 online.

So much for not minding the price.

Oh almost forgot, my avatar shows a bunch of video tapes.

Not yours, I hope!

- Edirol VMC-1 has time base correction and frame sync and 3D filter
- I don't mind the price in a sense when I sell it I don't loose a lot of money, a lot of stuff lists online for $800 plus but if you follow the selling prices they are in the range of $200 -$300 so I don't mind buying at $300 and selling for $250 but I do mind buying for $800 and loosing $550
- Those are not my tapes

By the way by looking into the brightEye 75 manual it looks like it only does TBC when a ref signal is present at the ref BNC connector, So it is more of multi source synchronizer rather than a capture device.

[Brad]

- Edirol VMC-1 has time base correction and frame sync and 3D filter

Yeah I know. It really is a shame that they put together such a nice unit and then limited it to only DV & analog output. (And can it be purchased anywhere these days?)

By the way by looking into the brightEye 75 manual it looks like it only does TBC when a ref signal is present at the ref BNC connector, So it is more of multi source synchronizer rather than a capture device.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news/6551-leitch-dps575-vs.html#post38471

I still haven't managed to convince him to post a sample VHS capture. Perhaps you'll have better luck.

[dellsam34]

- Edirol VMC-1 has time base correction and frame sync and 3D filter

Yeah I know. It really is a shame that they put together such a nice unit and then limited it to only DV & analog output. (And can it be purchased anywhere these days?)

Not that I know of, Seems to me like they made a very limited supply of them, they do rarely pop up on ebay but you have to be consistently checking if you want one.
The VMC-1 is a good device compared to devices that does 4:1:1 NTSC and 4:2:0 Pal, I have PAL caps that looked a lot better than MPEG2 encoded caps for the same source material, If no editing involved the VMC-1 does a great job because at the end of the day the losseless 4:2:2 capture will have to be encoded anyway and will end up most likely MPEG2 4:2:0 files or DVD unless you use a HD codec such as MPEG2 HD or MPEG4 that can preserve 4:2:2 correct me if I'm wrong.