VHS tapes optimal file conversion. Up-to-date advice

[RatherBeDancing]

Hi all

First post on the forum!

I have been trawling Google etc for ages looking for advice and what I am finding is that much of what is being suggested is in pretty old posts (2004-2008ish). I am after some advice based on current software versions etc.

What I want to do
***************
Transfer a load of old VHS tape content (self recorded, not commercial) to DVD. Minimal editing (just the odd shot of my foot where I forgot to turn off the camera ), maybe some very simple titles ('Christmas 1999' etc) and the best quality possible given the limits of the source. Oh, and something that is relatively simple/quick as there are loads of tapes to get through, although if better=slower I can live with slower.

What I have so far
***************
MacPro, loads of Ram and Disk space.
JVC DVS-3U dual standard video deck with FW out. I can play a VHS tape and connect the FW out to my Mac and capture the incoming FW stream.
Final Cut Studio (FCP, DVD Pro, Compressor etc)
iMovie 11
iDVD
Elgato Turbo H264 hardware encoder

So, I can capture my tapes to digital from my JVC deck.

What I would like to know please
***************************
1. Which software is best for capturing? iMovie seems easier but I have read that the later versions of iMovie reduce the quality of the incoming footage. Something to do with removing the interlacing?
2. What file format should the incoming stream be captured to?
3. Given the need for some (very basic) editing/trimming and titling, what tool is best to use whilst maintaining the best quality of file formats etc?
4. Once trimmed and titled, what is the best DVD creation tool? Just a simple Main Menu will suffice but a nice to have would be auto-chapters, say every 10 minutes, just to make skipping through a bit easier. Particularly as I don't want to spend hours and hours editing out dull stuff.
5. What codec settings are best used for the creation of the DVD using the selected authoring tool?


Phew, I think that is it!
Many thanks for your help in advance.
regards
Mark

[lordsmurf]

I have been trawling Google etc for ages looking for advice and what I am finding is that much of what is being suggested is in pretty old posts (2004-2008ish). I am after some advice based on current software versions etc.

It's not outdated information.

iMovie is garbage.
Macs generally make for poor capture machines.
Use FCP with the Elgato. It's been about 5-6 years since I did any of that (Mac/Elgato) -- nothing's changed, however. Don't remember what all is involved. Plus my time is limited today.

[RatherBeDancing]

Thanks for your response LordSmurf

Can anybody expand on the idea to use FCP and the Elgato H264 device?

What I struggle with is knowing the best settings for codecs to use for in/out passage of the files and what parameters to with the selected codecs. I can do the bit in the middle with FCP editing, it is the in/out bit that blows my mind! I have trawled around but a lot of the information seems to be referring to older versions and I am just wondering if there is somewhere that gives the info I need relating to the current versions of software I am running?

Hope that makes sense!

BTW, the source material is standard old VHS tapes captured via a dual standard (VHS/DV) deck with a Firewire port hooked up to my Mac. All PAL UK stuff.

Thanks all
Mark

[terryj]

Use FCP to capture the footage from the FW enabled VCR, take the elgato h.264 out.
You want to compress the footage going out, not coming in. DV-PAL stream,
which is how your FCP will capture it, is about as good as it will get.

As for simple Play menu dvds nothing Beats Toast.
Export from FCP to QT mov, then drag and drop in toast to burn.

[MacDSL]

I agree with TerryJ.
Just capture directly from the VCR into FCP. You don't want to compress video on the capture, get as much data as possible.

If you have FCP, use can just use that to do simple cuts and edits. Then export to whatever you need.

[pixel zombie]

if you have that many tapes to convert you might be better off getting a dvd recorder and going straight to dvd..when i have to make any sort of edits i will use a RW-DVD and do simple edits to the VOB file with mpeg streamclip and then use Toast with the existing VOB clips, also keep in mind that Toast is very slow when it comes to converting mov files into mpeg2 compliant files...

[dare2be]

If you do go the DVD Recorder route, the Magnavox MDR513H or MDR515H is an excellent unit for doing what you want...It has a hard drive for doing quick edits (scene cuts, chapter marks, title splitting) before high-speed dubbing to DVD.

The 513 will run you about $200 and the 515 about $250

[rumplestiltskin]

Your VHS tapes are 480i so that's your quality limitation. You have the deck that connects to your Mac via FireWire so that's DV-Stream coming into your Mac; that's as good a signal as you're going to get. As for the software: If you're comfortable with FCP, capture and edit there. If you want something dead simple, however, iMovieHD (v6.0.3) will do everything you've mentioned and a second-grader can master it in about an hour (I know because I used to work for Apple and sold Macs to schools where second-graders were routinely producing excellent videos using iMovieHD). iMovieHD is free, as long as you have any newer version on your hard drive; Apple did this because lots of people (myself included) hate the newer versions of iMovie. If you can't find the free download at Apple's site, PM me.

As for the export from iMovie: Make a reference movie of your final product (although you can right-click on your iMovie project and "show contents" and then find the internal reference movie) and use something like Handbrake to make a very high-quality (considering the source material) H264/MP4. The TurboH264 is a decent device (I own one) but, on a Mac Pro with multiple cores, Handbrake should yield about 200+ fps encoding. At that speed, why bother with a hardware dongle that, frankly, does have slightly less quality?

Once you have the H264's done, you're done. Forget Video DVD; use a media extender like a WD TV Media Player or an AppleTV. Store your videos on a hard drive (and back it up to another HD or to multiple data DVDs; don't re-encode to Video DVD; that's so 20th Century).

Feel free to PM me.

[spidery]

Great info on this chain, even if it wandered a bit. I don't think DV is an option for me, can you confirm?

I would really appreciate your weighing in on the following:
Context: 20 old VHS tapes and Hi8 tapes to convert to digital files and edit on my new Mac.
The most important takeaway i got from your post is that i should NOT be compressing on the capture. Got it.
So much for my El Gato purchase, which encodes (as it captures) into h.264 or .mp4.
But what then to use to capture uncompressed via video cable?
I want to edit the captured video to simply isolate the interesting stuff and chuck the boring stuff. Nothing fancy. Just keep the scenes I want. Am i thinking about this wrong? Should I only be capturing the scenes I want to keep? If i keep using the El Gato software that means going through the setup each time for each scene. Not kind.
Thanks tons.

[rumplestiltskin]

Uncompressed video isn't an option. How will you connect your Mac to the tape source? You'll need some sort of converter box. If you have nothing but the El Gato box, just set the capture for maximum quality and be done with it. If you have access to an analog-to-DV converter box (which connects to your Mac via firewire), then capture into iMovieHD or FCP (and there are freeware apps for capturing DV into a QuickTime movie (DV-stream in a .DV or .mov container). Then you may edit out what you don't want using QuickTime Pro Player 7 (or iMovie, FCP, etc.). Then export the result to H264 in an MP4 container (640x480, native framerate, about 2300kbps bitrate is plenty, maybe more than enough). (If you've captured with the El Gato, just "save as" because you won't need to re-encode.)

Great info on this chain, even if it wandered a bit. I don't think DV is an option for me, can you confirm?

I would really appreciate your weighing in on the following:
Context: 20 old VHS tapes and Hi8 tapes to convert to digital files and edit on my new Mac.
The most important takeaway i got from your post is that i should NOT be compressing on the capture. Got it.
So much for my El Gato purchase, which encodes (as it captures) into h.264 or .mp4.
But what then to use to capture uncompressed via video cable?
I want to edit the captured video to simply isolate the interesting stuff and chuck the boring stuff. Nothing fancy. Just keep the scenes I want. Am i thinking about this wrong? Should I only be capturing the scenes I want to keep? If i keep using the El Gato software that means going through the setup each time for each scene. Not kind.
Thanks tons.

[rumplestiltskin]

"If i keep using the El Gato software that means going through the setup each time for each scene."

Capture the whole tape in one shot; much faster than trying to start/stop/start... the process. You can start the capture and then simply FF through the tape until you get to the good parts, then FF again, etc. Then edit out the junk in QT Player Pro (select portions, cut, save as reference movie). Then, when you've finished with the video of that tape, do a "save as..." but, this time, make it a real video rather than a "reference" and a new video file will be created with just the good parts. You won't destroy the original captured video file until you have the new self-contained movie that's been edited properly.

[spidery]

How will you connect your Mac to the tape source? You'll need some sort of converter box. If you have nothing but the El Gato box, just set the capture for maximum quality and be done with it. If you have access to an analog-to-DV converter box (which connects to your Mac via firewire), then capture into iMovieHD or FCP (and there are freeware apps for capturing DV into a QuickTime movie (DV-stream in a .DV or .mov container). Then you may edit out what you don't want using QuickTime Pro Player 7 (or iMovie, FCP, etc.). Then export the result to H264 in an MP4 container (640x480, native framerate, about 2300kbps bitrate is plenty, maybe more than enough). (If you've captured with the El Gato, just "save as" because you won't need to re-encode.)

So far I just have the El Gato capture device connecting my LG-RC199H VHS player to my Mac. I'm considering the Black Magic Shuttle capture device, but it's a bit pricey, but so is FCP! It might do the analog to DV conversion you mention. It claims to capture without compression. The only options El Gato offers on capture is which file format to use: h.264 or .mp4. I did a simple edit of a captured .mp4 clip with iMovie (after first 'importing' into iMovie, which I think does some decompression/compression), then exporting from iMovie (they call it 'share'), and the only options there are presets for sharing with various devices: iPod, iPhone, appletv, etc; each presumably as a different.... Ahhhh.... Quality level....?
Anywho, the final exported clip (I chose 640x480) was noticeably deteriorated compared to the originally captured .mp4.

[spidery]

"If i keep using the El Gato software that means going through the setup each time for each scene."

Capture the whole tape in one shot; much faster than trying to start/stop/start... the process. You can start the capture and then simply FF through the tape until you get to the good parts, then FF again, etc. Then edit out the junk in QT Player Pro (select portions, cut, save as reference movie). Then, when you've finished with the video of that tape, do a "save as..." but, this time, make it a real video rather than a "reference" and a new video file will be created with just the good parts. You won't destroy the original captured video file until you have the new self-contained movie that's been edited properly.

Yes, I like the idea of using QTP Pro a lot. I've never used it but it sounds like all I need. I'll give it a whirl. Cool of you to help us newbs out. Thanks again. I've always looked at the ice floating above water and said "Yeah, I could do that". Now I'm starting to see the 'berg' below the surface and realizing why colleges offer degrees in this stuff.

[rumplestiltskin]

If you're capturing using the El Gato device, leave iMovie out of the mix. In the El Gato software, pick the best quality it offers. Then use QT Pro Player 7 (that's a $20 or $30 "serial number only" option which you may purchase at the Apple Store online website but probably not through the AppStore app) to do the selection and cutting of the video. Remember to "save as..." a "reference movie" so the original footage will still be preserved. Save often thereafter (which just updates the reference movie). Once you have the video the way you want it, "save as..." but choose the self-contained option and provide a slightly different name so you'll then have three videos: movie.mp4, movie-reference.mov, and movie-selfcontained.mov which are, respectively, the original captured video, the reference movie which reflects the edited state but -refers- to the original captured footage so it knows which parts to play and to skip and, finally, the self-contained version of the reference movie into which QT Player has dropped just the footage that you didn't edit out of the original footage. It's this third movie that you'll be archiving (on multiple disks for multiple backup, right?) and you can toss the original footage and the reference movie.

I hope this makes sense.