How much to ask for a professional dvd authoring job?

[Herod]

Hallo everyone!

May I ask your help for a very peculiar question?

I've been asked to create the DVD for a film produced in 1973 by its director himself, who has given me tons of material, including a good digital copy of the movie and hundreds of photographs and audio and video contents.

His wish is the creation of a dvd to be sold through a website, or through any possible distribution interested (even very important, since this is quite a 'cult movie', who at the time was aired on the Italian Television).

My job is going to be TOTAL, meaning it will include every phase, from 'before the authoring' to 'after the packaging'.
The director himself has asked me to make the price….. but this is my FIRST professional job, and I haven't really got a clue on how much to ask!!!

This is why I thought to submit my problem to you, explaining what I'm doing in every detail, in the hope that someone can help me


A) FILM

1) Restoration of the movie (color correction and manual restoration, via Photoshop, of many frames with artifacts and very heavy damages)
2) Synchronization of the audio from CD - it is a musical - with the video (being a transfer from film the pace, as you know, is different, so speeding up the audio or slowing down the video is not enough)


B) EXTRA CONTENT

1) Restoration and new editing of television archive footage (1 hour of material)
2) Scanning of about 200 among photographs and slides, with restoration of many of them
3) Creation of a clip with interviews with members of the cast (shot by me)
4) Creation of a clip showing the locations as they are today (shot by me)
5) Creation of a long clip with a reconstruction of the stage version of this musical. I have a complete live audio recording from 1970, that I will 'illustrate' through stage pics, captions and the complete libretto in sync with the music (running time 2 hours)
6) Selection and editing of audio content (rehearsals, interviews, demos…)


C) AUTHORING

1) Creation, with Photoshop, of no less than twenty menus
2) Two DVD Studio Pro projects (it will be a double dvd)
3) Typing of italian and english subtitles
4) Creation of the director's commentary audio track (I'm pointing this out because he didn't give me a single audio recording ready to be synced, but instead many small audio clips that I had to put together, sync with the video and THEN extract as one single track…. I spent eight hours on this only…)



D) PACKAGING

1) Creation of the dvd sleeve
2) Creation of all the graphics that will be eventually used for the promotion, merchandising, etc…


I work using the FINAL CUT STUDIO suite and ADOBE PHOTOSHOP.


I AM REALLY SORRY for taking much of the time of those who have read this far, but I had to be clear

Can anyone help me understand how much can I ask for this kind of job?


A THOUSAND THANK YOU!!!!!

Ermanno

[filmboss80]

I have a similar problem. My neighbor needs an aortic valve replacement and is asking me to do the heart surgery. It will be my first time. I have all the surgical instruments, the anesthesia, and the bed. I just don't know how much to charge.

Okay, that's a bad joke, but I'm trying to illustrate a point. By your post, the project is a huge one that requires a great deal of media asset management, as well as a level of skill that comes from quite a bit of experience in a variety of areas. Your first professional jobs should be smaller in scale, until you have developed a successful work flow and routine that will enable you to know what sort of time and resources will be needed for larger-scale jobs.

[Herod]

Hi! Thanks for your answer (and the bad joke, eheh...)

Well, by reading again what I wrote I realized that I wasn't very clear on one point. By saying that this is my first PROFESSIONAL job I meant that it is the first one I will be payed for.
I've been authoring dvds since 2002 and I've created tons of them, especially for the independent movies I directed and the stage shows I've done.

This is to say that I actually have the level of skills requested to do this job (I also work independently in video editing and graphics).

My problem is only that I've never been commissioned this kind of job by someboby who will pay me, and the large scale of it leaves me with no idea on how much to ask.
This is why I hope that somebody will give me at least some clues to try and put together a price, also considering the professional quality I can guarantee as final result

[_Al_]

Time is money, nobody knows but you, how much is your hour worth, also are you including prices of your PC or software? I'd take pencil and calculator, decided how many hours it is going to take (times two ... real life scenario especially first time), how much money is your hour worth and here we go ... You do it for yourself not what anybody thinks you should be charged. It is always how much you value yourself for the time doing job. Everything else is going to work against you later. BTW enormous range of work.

[filmboss80]

Thanks for the clarification. By all means, if you've gone through the process, then you should calculate the amount of time you expect to take on this project and figure out what you want to make per hour. Check around with other DVD firms that author commercial discs and get an idea of what they are charging per hour for similar services. Don't forget to calculate costs for such things as 4-color glossy prints of the DVD case sleeves, replication services, etc., which are based on the rates set by outside parties.

What are your current production assets? Do you have a timeline editor that can be used to efficiently synchronized the soundtrack to picture? Do you have a good audio editing and processing program to ensure the best possible quality.

You should also ask what sort of budget range the client has to work with. This will effect how much time you want to spend on things like locations shoots and interviews with participants. (Is there travel involved? Do you need to rent production gear? Will this be a multi-camera interview shoot? Is the interview featurette going to be long or short?) The client's budget limitations will also affect how much time you want to spend on restoration--which can bog you down for an eternity, if you don't watch out. The slide and photograph scanning stage alone could wipe you out if you're not equipped. There are also questions about subtitling: Will you be transcribing all the dialogue? Are you fluent in the required languages?

Finally, ask yourself how much money you want to make. Determine what is the minimum amount you're willing to bust your ass for. Determine how important this job is to your business portfolio.

I cannot set a specific dollar (or Euro) figure for you. There are too many variables and unanswered questions. You first have to have a grasp--based on experience--of the time it is going to take you to perform everything you listed in your original post. Only you know your inventory of production resources, too. I can't make an estimate for you, since I don't know what you have in your shop. The fact that you are asking this question of what to charge is the very reason why I first wondered about your experience level.

If you take the time to seek quotes from competitors, you will likely get a wide range of responses. Nevertheless, you should put your feelers out, and see what others are charging. I won't do the work for you.

[Cornucopia]

DITTO.
I was going to say, "send the work my way and I'll do the quote & the work and get paid, and then send you a cut!"

Scott

[videopoo]

This is pretty basic question since the answer is what you are willing to do the work for? You cant be that experienced if is this your first paying gig? I dont get that?

Where I come from, this job would be 10s of Thousand of dollars.

[Herod]

My first answer is to Videopoo

The explanation is very simple. I've been working as an actor for twelve years, and I soon got so frustrated at not having any decent video recording of my stage shows that I began doing them myself, organizing the cameras and then doing the editing (something I already did for my own small independent underground self directed movies).
Since I was a huge fan and collector of DVDs I wanted to know everything about them and how to create them, so I studied and experimented, beginning with Ulead DVD Workshop and later DVD Studio Pro.

The workflow I descibed above is not so different from the one I use with my own dvds, where I track down every material from the show and organize them as if it were a professional commercial dvd.

I have authored no less than 80 dvds, some of them very complex, in the last ten years.

I met the director of this movie, and when I showed him my dvds he asked me to work on his one.

This should explain how I can have the needed experience even if it's my first payed job in the authoring field

[filmboss80]

I have authored no less than 80 dvds, some of them very complex, in the last ten years.

Well, I haven't counted the number of DVD authoring projects my company has done (probably not near 80), but as an entity whose works are actually mass replicated (not burned to DVD-R) and sold in the retail market, I can attest that no 2 projects have cost the same. One must assess the quality of the audiovisual assets available to judge how much time and labor needs to be invested in a particular project.

Here is where the wide, wide cost range is: restoration. You may have "authoring" experience, but how are you at restoration? None of us here can see the quality of the film transfer. Was the movie scanned from a 35mm negative, or was it telecined from a scratchy, faded 16mm print? Was the film transfer done digitally at every phase, or are you receiving assets that were digitized from analog videotape? Since we haven't seen the main movie, we have no way of knowing the amount of work your project is going to require.

And, I'm a bit alarmed when you say this:

"Restoration of the movie (color correction and manual restoration, via Photoshop, of many frames with artifacts and very heavy damages)"

How many individual frames are you going to need to correct? How much experience have you had with this?

Despite everything you have told us so far, no one could even begin to give you an accurate figure to quote for your project, because no one here has seen the condition of the main movie that's being delivered to you. Videopoo gives the best ballpark figure with "tens of thousands of dollars."

No one is trying to make you feel defensive about your abilities; but based on your posts so far, those of us who are trying to help you have some realistic concerns about the feasibility of one person handling all that you have listed, in a timely fashion, especially with the software you have mentioned.

[poisondeathray]

And, I'm a bit alarmed when you say this:

"Restoration of the movie (color correction and manual restoration, via Photoshop, of many frames with artifacts and very heavy damages)"

Exactly. This is scary. This could easily make up 99% of the project (timewise) and take a few months if it's only you doing it. (or years if you don't have the right tools)

[Herod]

Scary indeed. This is why I divided the frames in three categories:

1) Badly damaged (about 30)
2) Bad, but not umbearably ruined (some more)
3) Damages visible probably only to 'technical' eyes (a lot more)

The 16mm print is badly ruined, but luckily three years ago a transfer on 1/2" tape surfaced; we don't know when it was done, but the overall quality is very good (I suppose it was done in the early 80's, when the original print was not so old yet). I have been given a DV transfer.

My work would concentrate on eliminating the damages that were transfered with the original print in that tape transfer

[Cornucopia]

!!
You're already 2 generations down, not just 1: 1/2" tape (what kind? - big differences here) and DV transfer (how?) = Lots of ADDITIONAL artifacts of varying nature...

Do you have cost of additional tools acquisition factored into the budget quote ('cuz you'll need them)?

You say "badly ruined", but honestly, unless you haven't told us of your work for a Film Preservation Society or the L.O.C., I'm not sure you are qualified to venture that statement.

You MAY be ok to do the production, editing, encoding & authoring portions (it's hard to say without having seen your work), but it sounds to me like you're in WAY over your head when it comes to restoration (I say from restoration experience).

Not trying to dissuade you, but just give a reality-check...

Scott

[Nelson37]

Let's take a step back, here.

What kind of revenue from the sale of this disk is projected? If this is approaching a million dollars or so, then we can figure a pretty high amount budgeted for restoration. If we are talking a few thousand at most, then there is not much money to pay for your work.

Is this director very wealthy, can he pay you up front? Or will you be taking a percentage of the gross receipts?

What I would do is offer a nice authoring and compilation job, with NO restoration, for maybe a hundred or two. Restoration work taking many, many hours would be done AFTER getting paid for the simpler work. You could take a cue from Hollywood and sell the unrestored disk first, then later offer a "Digitally re-Mastered" version.

I'm thinking total sales is not going to clear a thousand in cash, it will be pirated and distributed for free and no one will make a buck unless you get paid up front.

[DB83]

If a 1/2 tape exists for this movie then why has this tape not been made available to you ? Atleast then, by hiring the right equipment , you could get a better source transfer than DV.

I could be wide of the mark here but methinks your director friend is trying to do this on the cheap. So it is not the case of how much to charge but to determine on how much he is prepared to pay. From that you can then determine just how much time and effort, assuming you can do all you declare is required, you are prepared to put in to this.

[Cornucopia]

Well put, D883. My thoughts exactly.

Scott

[videopoo]

If a 1/2 tape exists for this movie then why has this tape not been made available to you ? Atleast then, by hiring the right equipment , you could get a better source transfer than DV.

I could be wide of the mark here but methinks your director friend is trying to do this on the cheap. So it is not the case of how much to charge but to determine on how much he is prepared to pay. From that you can then determine just how much time and effort, assuming you can do all you declare is required, you are prepared to put in to this.

Yep! Best thing to do is find out his budget and go from there. BTW....DV in this equation is scary.

Workflows aside, most every professional make about $200 to $800 a day, so I'd take those numbers and find a happy medium.

[lingyi]

In addition to all the great comments already posted, there's the issue of rights to the film.

Rarely does a director have all ownership rights (studio, music, photographer, actor releases, etc.) to the film. Films are kept from release because of various rights issues that even big studios are unable to overcome.

You mention "1) Restoration and new editing of television archive footage (1 hour of material)". Does the director own all rights to distribute this footage? Just because it airs on free tv doesn't mean it's in the public domain.

You're also planning to do the "3) Creation of a clip with interviews with members of the cast (shot by me)". Who will own this footage? You or the director? What if someone refuses to be interviewed or doesn't allow their previous footage to be used?

The fact that: "His [the director's] wish is the creation of a dvd to be sold through a website, or through any possible distribution interested (even very important, since this is quite a 'cult movie', who at the time was aired on the Italian Television)." is suspicous. Why is he having you, an amateur create this project if there's a good profit potential. If it truly has "cult movie" status, some professional studio would be interested in doing a proper restoration and distribution.

As your first "professional" project, do you want to potentially be involved with a lawsuit when one of more of the rights holders takes the director to court?

[Herod]

Wow! It seems I raised quite an issue...

First of all let me thank everyone; through your deep insights, questions and legitimate doubts you are helping me making up my mind about this whole thing

I will now try to answer you as much as I can...

lingyi
Rarely does a director have all ownership rights (studio, music, photographer, actor releases, etc.) to the film. Films are kept from release because of various rights issues that even big studios are unable to overcome.

This film was coproduced by RAI (the Italian television) and an external producer. The budget was less than half of the average low budget films...
It has quite a curious story, because RAI itself 'censored' it (it was 1973, and considered it too explicit on the depiction of drugs), and so they aired it only three times in thirty years.
Nevertheless it became a cult movie, mainly through the soundtrack album and in spite of the fact that it was never even staged again in its theatrical form.

Well, to cut it short, the old producer has given his rights to the director (they are longtime friends), and as for the part belonging to RAI.... well, strange as it may be, in all these years no document has been found stating the TV's ownership of the film...

lingyi
You mention "1) Restoration and new editing of television archive footage (1 hour of material)". Does the director own all rights to distribute this footage? Just because it airs on free tv doesn't mean it's in the public domain.

Of course he hasn't. This material is anyway included in the project, so that the potential distribution knows that this footage exists, and eventually acquire the rights from the owner. If this proved to be unfeasible, the material would of course be removed from the dvd.

lingyi
What if someone refuses to be interviewed or doesn't allow their previous footage to be used?

I don't get this.... everytime you do an interview you ask the person to sign a permission to use the footage

lingyi
The fact that: "His [the director's] wish is the creation of a dvd to be sold through a website, or through any possible distribution interested (even very important, since this is quite a 'cult movie', who at the time was aired on the Italian Television)." is suspicous. Why is he having you, an amateur create this project if there's a good profit potential. If it truly has "cult movie" status, some professional studio would be interested in doing a proper restoration and distribution.

For years the whole thing was blocked because of the rights issue (i.e. finding documents and a lot of other issues too long to explain.... even the change of a boss in a particular department could mean that things had to start all over again).
Of course I am semplifying things (it would require pages and pages), but it looks like the rights are all the director's.

Why me?
Years ago I became friends with him, and when we talked about the project of this dvd I told him to consider me to create the disk. I showed him the dvds I had made, explained to him how I would organiz the material, and he appreciated so much that he agreed. I was given any kind of material, so that now I even have the original 1969 manuscripts of the show, and have even become quite well known in the community of the fans of this film.

As a dvd creator I can accept to be called an amateur, but only in the sense that I have never done a payed one. If you add to this a deep knowledge of the show, it may explain why the director thinks I can do this job with the necessary care

As for the lawsuit thing.... of course nothing will be published without things settled right.
Of all the project I explained in the first post, I have done only what an 'advanced' fan would do-if I have to go on it has to be properly payed

[Herod]

This is an example of the 'restoration' I would do. I've done only a few frames.

Cornucopia wrote: "You say "badly ruined", but honestly, unless you haven't told us of your work for a Film Preservation Society or the L.O.C., I'm not sure you are qualified to venture that statement."

Maybe you're right, but I think you don't need to work for a Film Preservation Society to spot scratches.... and anyway the director told me that he saw the 16 mm print (the only existing copy) and was afraid to touch it, badly ruined as it was.

DB83 wrote:
If a 1/2 tape exists for this movie then why has this tape not been made available to you? Atleast then, by hiring the right equipment , you could get a better source transfer than DV.

I hope it will be possible. What kind of transfer are you referring to? I ask this because I've always worked with DV material only

[DB83]

Well I do not know the copyright law for Italy but as part of the EU (European Union) I would have thought that even in the absence of documentation it is implicitly held by the original producers. One half may have passed that over - I hope that agreement is in writing else there could be issues with that in the future - but RAI will still have a say in it.

There is also another matter with tv production. Artists normally sign just for their performance to be aired on the original medium. Any additional medium ie dvd could well require every single artist to be contacted and have their consent for additional distribution paid for by royalties. I know of tv programs which have failed to appear on dvd for this very reason. Again we are talking of Europe and the situation could be vastly different to other countries.

But you should still enquire about that 1/2 tape because you simply do not have a quality digital source to start with.

On a side issue, you do not become 'professional' simply by charging for your services. Professionalism is an indication of experience and quality. At best you will be regarded as a gifted amateur, despite receiving a fee for this work, or a semi-pro.

[DB83]

I have just seen your second reply.

DV is compressed. So there will be compression artifacts in the transfer. You are taking those compressed frames out of the video to remove blemishes. When you import that frame back it will not have the same qualities as the original. You should be working with an uncompressed source.

And I would have thought that those restored frames are gonna look odd in the final video because photoshop can not replicate the original. Pros will certainly not do it this way. You should be looking for a video editor with rotoscoping ability.

[svcdmaker]

Since this is not a project that has personal meaning (other than seeing what you can do), money is going to drive everything. There is no way that you can quote a project of this magnitude unless you have done something like this before. The most reasonable approach is to do this in stages. You have no idea how much the director wants to spend either. Put together a proposal for what $5000 USD (or some other modest figure) will do. This will cover a lot of ground without extensive restoration work. It is the restoration work that will eat you up. At that point the director can see how much further he wants to go and you can give a revised proposal.