Is this true? DVD can't be played on older computers?

[jjachin]

I was asked to create a DVD that contained a menu to link to 3 demos for viewing on a computer not a home DVD Player.

I used Adobe Encore CS4. I tested the DVD on 4 other machines 2 Macs, 2 PCs approximately 1 - 1.5 years old - all was good. The Master DVD was sent off to a CD/DVD vendor who tested it and made 100 copies.

The group this was created for received the DVDs and quite a few could not play it. The vendor said that their software was not updated, and there was nothing I could have done to prevent this. The group discovered that they needed to download a VLC encoder in order to play the DVD, but they were not very happy about it.

Could I have avoided this? If so, then how? If not, then how do you distribute DVDs and ensure that a majority of your audience can play them?

Thanks in advance.

[craigarta]

Well this thing to mind is what media was used?

DVD-R or DVD+R. My moms old computer would fight on -r but loved +R

Or did they have any DVD software on the computer to begin with?

[MOVIEGEEK]

All PC's(not sure about Mac) do NOT come with a MPEG-2 codec. You could include a freeware software player and add it to the root.

[lordsmurf]

Encore should stick to DVD specs -- anally so, in fact.
So I doubt it was a spec issue.

Made 100 copies how? Pressed DVD, DVD-R, DVD+R? What brand/make discs?
That doesn't sound like it was a problem either, however.

It sounds more like the customer did not have any DVD player software.
If that's the case, then tough tits. That's their fault for having outdated computers.
I bet they had Windows Media Player 8 or 9, on default Windows XP or older installs.

You did what you were asked, they have the product they wanted and paid for.

[lordsmurf]

All PC's(not sure about Mac) do NOT come with a MPEG-2 codec. To be safe use WMV or MPEG-1 and make a data disk.

Reading the job order, this was NOT an option.

[disturbed1]

The PCs in question most likely did not have DVD software installed. Windows XP and previous all need 3rd party software - either in the form of a player (VLC, CyberLink, PowerDVD) or 3rd Party codecs which are installed with CyberLink, PowerDVD .... or available for purchase from Microsoft directly.

The only way to avoid this, is to include a portable player on the DVD itself. Much in the way some of the first DVDs included items like the PC-Friendly player and such.

You may have been able to author a multimedia CDROM, but then, you'd have to worry about which codec to use with which player, and would in the end opt to include these files on the CDROM to allow playback with all machines regardless of installed files. Windows (previous to Vista) came a very limited set of built in codecs. You are not even guaranteed playback compatibility using their own wmv codec, as Windows 98, XP, XP-SP1, XP-SP2, XP-SP3 all came with different versions of the playback codec. Granted, once Windows Media Player attempts to play the file, the user is prompted to update to a newer codec - providing they have, not only admin rights, but also an internet connection.

Multimedia distribution on the PC is a mess, and you should not take anything for granted. Never assume the end user has internet, a player, nor a codec. Include an all-in-one player on the disc with a plain English README.txt file. Construct your autorun.inf to execute the portable player to launch the enclosed media. Or, include a disclaimer, warring, info something on your website/order page and DVD Case that has instructions about how to playback the DVD on a PC.

[Noahtuck]

All PC's(not sure about Mac) do NOT come with a MPEG-2 codec. You could include a freeware software player and add it to the root.

It's actually "windows" or "WMP" does not come with MPG2 codec's so M$ does not have to pay for it.

Could I have avoided this? If so, then how? If not, then how do you distribute DVDs and ensure that a majority of your audience can play them?

No and No!!

It sounds more like the customer did not have any DVD player software.
If that's the case, then tough tits. That's their fault for having outdated computers.

Exactly!!
At least for not having any software or MPG2 codecs installed.

The group discovered that they needed to download a VLC encoder in order to play the DVD, but they were not very happy about it.

See what Lordsmurf said 8)

And they say ignorance is bliss

These are the types of people that should not be allowed to own or operate PC's!!
They will buy a dvd from best buy then return it saying the movie dvd is faulty because they can't get it to play on their PC when they have no dvd software installed.

I know a few people that can totally decimate a fresh install of windows on a new machine within a week!!!!!

I always say, giving some people PC's is like giving a child a loaded gun!!

[Nelson37]

A DVD, intended ONLY for PC's, to contain video does NOT need to conform to DVD specs

The job was to create a disk to play video on PC's. The failure lay in making a standard, Video DVD. This was the wrong approach to the task at hand.

MPG-1 would have been the answer. Use standard res, non-interlaced. Quality would simulate a video DVD, or could go well beyond as there would be no artificial bitrate or resolution constraints.

MPG-1 capability is present in the OS from Win98 onward. MPG-2 is not. To argue that the target audience must conform to what they are given is assinine in the extreme. A high percentage will refuse to add software and the demo is worthless for those people. The demo needs to conform to what is usable by the target audience. Only a few have DVD players with MPG2 capability. Virtually ALL have MPG1 players.

[Lawbringer]

I once checked out a BluRay movie at the library and asked the lady at the front desk "will this DVD play in my Nintendo Wii?"

She just stared at me.

Sorry, not really on topic. Yeah, as has been said, they didn't have a software DVD player installed, simple as that.

[AlanHK]

The group discovered that they needed to download a VLC encoder in order to play the DVD, but they were not very happy about it.

You could have included a "portable" version of VLC (a player, not an encoder, by the way) or another DVD player -- i.e. one that runs without being permanently installed on the PC.

But probably would have been best to use Flash. Any PC that accesses the Internet is almost certain to have Flash, and you can put a stand-alone player on the disc for those that don't.

[Bjs]

Best choice is provide these in case where the printed jacket includes a pc playback notice ... job done

[lordsmurf]

To argue that the target audience must conform to what they are given is assinine in the extreme. A high percentage will refuse to add software and the demo is worthless for those people. The demo needs to conform to what is usable by the target audience.

I refuse to read the minds of customers. If they ask for
- "a DVD", they're going to get a DVD-Video authored to the DVD-Video specification.
- an MPEG-1 file, they'll get an MPEG-1 file.
- "video for a website", we'll discuss their streaming options.
- something that will "play on all computers" then I will set them straight on this impossible request.

All these suggestions about autoruns, portable players, Flash, etc --- sorry guys, but that's still NO GUARANTEE that the video will work in any given computer. Been there, tried that, there is no solution to this problem, aside from the customer pulling his/her head out of his/her you-know-what, and installing the proper software.

If they refuse to listen to reason or common sense, then they can go pester some other service with their asinine work order. I don't want their repeat nagging every time they run into a computer that "won't play" the discs.

I have similar issues with website creation and clients using the unsafe, decade-old IE6.

Upgrade. New software doesn't make the computer explode.

[jjachin]

Your responses are fantastic and quite helpful.

The issue with relying solely on the customer's request is that they know less about this stuff than I do - a scary prospect. I did give them what they asked for but wished I could have foreseen any issues. I had no idea that a computer that came with a DVD player might not have DVD software.

I try to create for the greatest common factor. Most of those viewing the DVD would be running Windows XP and using Windows Media Player. The other issue was that I was working with two previously produced WMV demos and 1 m2v video and had to create a menu. I wouldn't know how to do it any other way other than using software like Encore.

The group discovered that they needed to download a VLC encoder in order to play the DVD, but they were not very happy about it.

You could have included a "portable" version of VLC (a player, not an encoder, by the way) or another DVD player -- i.e. one that runs without being permanently installed on the PC.

But probably would have been best to use Flash. Any PC that accesses the Internet is almost certain to have Flash, and you can put a stand-alone player on the disc for those that don't.

Can you/someone direct to me to info on how I would include a copy of the VLC or any other all-in-one player? If the player is included on the DVD, is there anything else a user has to do?

When you suggest using Flash, are you suggesting using it as a menu to play linked WMV or other files? In the past, I've used a Flash stand alone player with FLVs and if the viewer's computer didn't have a fast enough processor, the video was choppy.

[Baldrick]

Can you/someone direct to me to info on how I would include a copy of the VLC or any other all-in-one player? If the player is included on the DVD, is there anything else a user has to do?

Just google for vlc portable autorun, see for example http://www.yougamers.com/forum/showpost.php?s=ce5ab40c5b73c849e317e68a137d41b9&p=914175&postcount=3

BUT as lordsmurf says, it wont work all, if you for example have disabled autorun...

[Cornucopia]

I agree with most of what lordsmurf said, although I do think that as a "media service provider", you are seen as the expert in these matters (not the client), so it is in a way your responsibility to not only understand all the options and pitfalls, but to "read their minds" by asking enough questions that you get to the heart of what they're really wanting and what they really have to begin with (and how they'll react to roadblocks). It's partly a job of education, but you have to do it in a subtle way as to not sound condescending.

Me, I would have either:
A. Created a standard DVD-Video, but put a readme with options (and maybe an MPG1 fallback clip) and warnings on the disc as well.
B. Made it very clear up front, that "in order to play this disc, a PC must have xxx specs!..." put into the contract, written on the disc face and back cover, and even a readme disclaimer in it.
C. Figured out exactly what most of their clients computers had (a laborious and lengthy process), and created a media file specific to THOSE computers. Probably Flash. More disclaimers.

Of course, there's still no pleasing some people, but this way your butt is covered and your reputation is kept clean and respected. Plus, with the "education" part thrown in at the beginning, people appreciate it more. If that's extra work (and it usually is), figure out a way to add that time into your bill as part of your "value added deluxe service".

Scott

[lordsmurf]

Oh, of course -- try to ascertain what the client really needs, help them to understand the solution that best helps them accomplish their goals, etc. If I sound somewhat abrasive here, it's because I'm talking with a fellow service provider, not a customer.

I still don't agree that you have to clutter your product, contracts, forms, sites, etc with disclaimers. It's not our job to baby-proof everything.

"Warning, this DVD only plays in a DVD player, or on a computer with DVD player software" ---- Really? No shit! I was going to try my Amiga CD-ROM, thanks for telling me.

.............. here's your sign.

[lordsmurf]

Make a "Flash DVD" in Encore. I've never done it, but I've read about it.

[jjachin]

Oh, of course -- try to ascertain what the client really needs, help them to understand the solution that best helps them accomplish their goals, etc. If I sound somewhat abrasive here, it's because I'm talking with a fellow service provider, not a customer.

I still don't agree that you have to clutter your product, contracts, forms, sites, etc with disclaimers. It's not our job to baby-proof everything.

"Warning, this DVD only plays in a DVD player, or on a computer with DVD player software" ---- Really? No shit! I was going to try my Amiga CD-ROM, thanks for telling me.

.............. here's your sign.

I don't think you were being abrasive, and I completely understand. One of the guys in the group that I did this for was complaining that he was utterly embarrassed to be handing out a DVD to his customers and requiring them to download this software in order to view it.... the ironic part is that software produced by the group requires users to use Internet Explorer, and he can't seem to see the correlation with either constraint.

I'm not a video expert or provider and I have zero training in this. I'm a designer that supports a very large company of computer engineers with a variety of multimedia projects. It's the first time I've done this, and I have to deal with a person who makes being an ass an occupation.

The group wants me to re-do the project, so I'll have a go at it and test it out with all the great input everyone has given me. I'll try the Flash, I'll try the stand alone player, and probably pull my hair out in the process.

[lordsmurf]

I'd only redo the process for a second paycheck. The mistake was his.

This is also why companies should approach media firms, not hire a random "computer person".
No disrespect to you, but that's not your forte. Just like they shouldn't ask me to debug their software.

IE8 is fine. If it's IE7 or IE6, they all need to be smacked upside the head.

[jjachin]

I work within the company, so I don't have the right of refusal.

No disrespect taken. Anyway, I've built up a thick skin over the years. I have an undergraduate degree in Art, a certificate in Graphic Design, one in Web Development, and I'm currently in a Digital Media Graduate program. I'm confident I'll figure this out in part with everyone's help & great advice within this forum. And really, you all have been of great help.

Yes, if they wanted this done perfectly they could have gone to a firm, but that would require they spend $ -- something they never seem to want to do especially when the expectation is that this is so easy to do.

[Nelson37]

It somewhat depends on the target audience. This is NOT Mass Market, they want 100 disks, that is a specific group to which they will be handed out.

I will tell you from experience that this disk needs to be self-contained. A requirement to install additional software will be unacceptable to many, even impossible for some who may not have administrator privileges. In order to hit as many of those 100 as possible, it needs to be completely plug-and-play.

The difference with Internet Explorer is that everyone with Windows already has it. This tells me that Mac people are not part of the target audience, and will ease the autoplay issue.

You can author a standard DVD with autoplay software built-in, or make an MPG-1 disk with a menu. MPG-1 might actually have playback quality advantages on a PC, and the player is already there. Not sure you can use a menu structure for mpg-1 on a DVD, at least not xVCD type menu. The standard DVD would have the advantage of also playing in a standalone player.

If there was strong objection to installing a free DVD player, I would guess there would also be strong objection to installing Flash. Demo disks that require software to be installed are often simply thrown away. I know, I have many times told a customer why a disk won't work, what they need to make it work, and then chucked the disk for them when they say "screw it".

[johns0]

If you are going to do the video in a easier fashion for the people to watch you will still get lots of cries and complaints cause if they cant figure out how watch dvd video on the pc how much easier will it be for them when the autorun is turned off and they ask'where's my dvd drive'.

[Cornucopia]

An alternative might be "MakeInstantPlayer", which takes a media file, and compiles it with a self-contained/portable media player based on Mplayer, into a single, monolithic EXE that can be autorun (or not).

Link: http://www.tothepc.com/archives/convert-videos-into-exe-no-player-needed-to-play/

Scott

Edit: Doh! Vhelp already has this listed...

[jjachin]

Cool. I'm on a Mac, but have Fusion installed. I'll give it a go.