Capture MPEG As Lossless As Possible

[EViS]

As I can't afford a DV-AVI capture device, is there anyway to capture MPEG as lossless as possible (as close to DV-AVI as you can get)? This is for editing and future-proof/storage purposes...

[BJ_M]

mpeg from what source ?

[redwudz]

What capturing device or card do you have? You can capture with some video cards using the HuffyUV codec. It's high quality, but the files will be large.

Or you could use a MPEG hardware capture card like one of the Hauppauge cards.

[EViS]

Sorry missed some crucial information out there...

I will be capturing VHS video from a JVC HR-8600E VCR & a AVToolbox AVT-8710 (CTB100) TBC using an S-Video connection.

I haven't purchased a capture card yet as I'm not sure which one to go for due to the question at the start of this thread... However I do know that I don't have much money left to spend after purchasing the above and all DV-AVI hardware is completely out of my price range by a long margin...

[EViS]

If a card captures in MPEG (such as the Hauppauge series), can't I simply bypass the cards' MPEG capture and use my Core2 Duo CPU and some capture software to capture everything in DV-AVI?

[redwudz]

If you are wanting to capture in a AVI type format, I wouldn't purchase a hardware MPEG capture card. It might be possible to get a Hauppauge card to work in AVI format, but if you could, you wouldn't need a MPEG capture card anyway.

For what you want, I would just use a capture card that can easily use AVI type formats. If you look in our 'Capture Cards' section the the left, you would probably want a card with analog in, PCI slot type, under $50US. That gives you about 80 choices. If you already have a AGP PCI-E or other video card, you don't need video out, so that would keep the cost down. About the only other option is a tuner, which you probably don't need either.

Software is easy enough. You can use VirtualDub with most cards and do your editing and filtering with the same program. Or there are other freeware programs that do well with those types of captures. But for specific video card recommendations, I'll leave that to others.

[mats.hogberg]

Hauppage captures to mpg only. But if putting your video on DVD is your ultimate goal, and all you have to do before authoring is cut out parts, then you're fine - just capture @ highest allowed DVD bitrate, cut out the pieces you don't want, and author. Done.
However, if you want to do extensive edits, with fades, transitions and stuff, or simply want the best quality possible for computer playback, DV (or uncompressed/huffyuv) is a better choice.

/Mats

[jman98]

If a card captures in MPEG (such as the Hauppauge series), can't I simply bypass the cards' MPEG capture and use my Core2 Duo CPU and some capture software to capture everything in DV-AVI?

You can't bypass the card because the hardware chip on the card used for encoding only understands MPEG-1/2 video. It's not possible to capture AVI video through a Hauppauge card. So it's not that the capture software is preventing you from captuing in AVI with the card, it's an actual limitation of the card itself.

My recommendation would be to just record at 9000 Kbps MPEG-2. I think recording to AVI first and re-encoding is a waste of disk space as I really don't think most people could tell the difference if you compared the following:
video recorded in lossless AVI and re-encoded to MPEG-2 at bitrate, say, 6000 Kbps
video recorded at 9000 Kbps MPEG-2 and re-encoded with a good encoder to 6000 Kbps
Recording directly at 6000 Kbps MPEG-2 probably will be inferior to recording to AVI first and then encoding, which is why I think some people here talk about how "bad" it is to encode directly to MPEG-2. It's not bad if you record to a high enough bitrate and then re-encode down to what you need.

[thecoalman]

video recorded in lossless AVI and re-encoded to MPEG-2 at bitrate, say, 6000 Kbps
video recorded at 9000 Kbps MPEG-2 and re-encoded with a good encoder to 6000 Kbps

Coincidentally I have similar comparison except there was no capture cards involved, just files. https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=257651

You would be correct there isn't much difference,

DV-AVI>6000kbps on the left -------- 8000kbps MPEG>6000kbps on the right:


However what if we take your example and say drop it to 3000kbps :P

3000kbpsFrom DV-AVI:


3000kbps From 8000kbps MPEG


The biggest question is if you're going to be doing processing after you capture. They both have their benefits, but for processing hands down DV-AVI or uncompressed, it's no comparison.

[EViS]

Right so DV-AVI later converted to DVD standard (MPEG-2) is the best option... anyone recommend any capture cards "under $50" from the capture card list as recommended by redwudz with S-Video In?

[thecoalman]

I'll lay it out for you... ask yourself this....

Am I going to spend the time (read hours and hours) to learn how to do this? Do I want to get the most out of this footage I can? Am I going to want to apply filters to the entire clip, such as noise reduction, brightness etc.? Do I want to use this footage in multiple foramts such as for DVD's, WMV for the web. Do I want to preserve these files for furutre use in less compressed format (note this will require quite a bit of external hardrive space, yet a another expense)?

If so then go AVI.


Or do i want to get it to disc with resonable results fairly quickly trimming and adding transitions between clips?

If so go MPEG.

Edit: you edited you post so I'm editing mine. :P

[thecoalman]

anyone recommend any capture cards "under $50" from the capture card list as recommended by redwudz?

The under $50 ones utilize your CPU for encoding, that's a whole other ballgame. All the capture devices discussed so far are hardware encoders, except for recording to the drive your computer has little to do with it. Generally speaking the hardware devices are plug and play and require very little tweaking, that's one of the resons the Canopus is rated the highest under capture cards. The $50 ones on the other hand generallly require at least some minor tweaking up to pulling your hair out and wanting to smash it with a axe.

If you lived by me I have a Leadtek XP TV2000 ultimate or something or other sitting here collecting dust that I'd give you, worked OK for me. I'd even ship it to you for postage but that's probably about what it costs to buy new.

[EViS]

thecoalman: I'll either be going for a Hauppauge WinTV PCI or Leadtek XP TV2000...

What sort of problems am I likely to experience using my Core2Duo e6600 to encode into DV-AVI format?
What software is best for this with the above cards?

[thecoalman]

For both use the software that came with the card for capture. Instead of installing what's on the disc get the "latest and greatest" drivers and software from their site.

For the Leadtek use the HuffyUV codec instead of DV-AVI, the file sizes for H uffyUV are approximately 25-30GB's per hour if I remember correctly.

Last thing to note, I'm not reccomending the Leadtek. But if that's all that's in your budget so be it. It's not a great card but it's not bad either, there may even be better ones for the same price. I'd suggest waiting to see if anyone else has any suggestions.

Tjhe most frequent problems with these cards is sound sync issues.

[EViS]

It's the sound sync issues I'm worried about, would this only be caused by a poor CPU? Can a Hauppauge PVR250 capture using HuffyUV?

And is it ok to edit films which are encoded in HuffyUV?

[mats.hogberg]

Hauppauge PVR250 "only" captures mpg. But does it quite well.
thecoalman summed it up pretty well in this post: https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1677317#1677317
Which of these scenarios fits you the most?

/Mats

[thecoalman]

<sigh> As mentioend by someone else the Hauppage is MPEG encoder, that's what you use, you have no choice. You could probably force it capture something else but that defeats the purpose of having it in the first place.(edit: just to clarify, by force it I mean through software. the card itself would be converting it to MPEG and I really don't know if you can. I know you can with a DV device) Same goes for a device like the Pyro or canopus, those are hardware DV encoders.

As far as the sound sync issues I really have no specidfic answer but that could be one of them. Having a fast system certainly isn't going to hurt.

As far as editing HuffyUV it's preferable over anything because it's a lossless codec hence the reson the file sizes are so big, uncompressed is the same but much larger. Huffyuv is only practical for capturing when using a device that doesn't do hardware encoding such as the Leadtek.

[EViS]

Sorry, didn't quite realise that HuffyUV & MPEG were two completely different things, I thought that HuffyUV was simply an MPEG codec...

All understood now...

After all of this, I think I'll just go for the Hauppauge PVR 250, encode at 9000Kbps and save myself alot of bother and possible stress over A/V sync issues... Ideally I'd love to encode at DV-AVI using a canopus but this project is already costing me too much...

Thankyou to everyone who has helped me here! Much appreciated!