Video is native PAL, but in stores only have NTSC version. Help!

[chickens]

Hi there, I'm a fan of Hard-Fi band. Not long ago, they released their first ever dvd, it contains concert + music videos and other footages. My concern is, throughout all places that sells this dvd (hmv uk, hmv hk, cd-wow, amazon.com, tesco etc) the only format available for this dvd is NTSC. It seems that PAL version is not out yet, or might not be out. I have recorded before their music videos from tv, and I can confirm that their music videos are all native PAL as it is progressive for every single frame (I'm from PAL region).

What my concern is, is there a possibility that the videos that is fitted as NTSC format in the dvd be progressive as well? As I know, PAL is sped up 4% from original film(24fps). Will they just use the 24fps instead to fit in the NTSC format [as NTSC dvd could be 24fps/29.97fps] ? My concern is I would prefer what I buy to be progressive rather than interlaced. I notice that most videos of PAL is directly converted to NTSC and cause every single frame to be interlaced.

Also, another question. If a video is converted from native PAL (meaning all frames progressive) to NTSC (29.97 fps), will the motion be smoother? Or the original native video PAL is smoother ? or the motion would just be around the same/not much difference?

Thanks in advance.

[Barnabas]

Most commercial NTSC DVD's are progressive. Framerate is probably going about 24 fps. Converting the video to PAL will not make it smoother.

[chickens]

anymore valuable advice?

[manono]

Hi-

What my concern is, is there a possibility that the videos that is fitted as NTSC format in the dvd be progressive as well?

There's always that possibility, but I wouldn't count on it. Unless these people have some money to go back to the original elements to make a proper NTSC master, the chances are better that they'll just use the PAL master and blend the hell out of it to convert it to NTSC. So, I'd bet on a blended, interlaced NTSC DVD, But there's no real way to know unless you buy the DVD.

If a video is converted from native PAL (meaning all frames progressive) to NTSC (29.97 fps), will the motion be smoother?

No, it'll never be smoother than the original. Even if the conversion is done properly, by slowing it to 23.976fps and applying pulldown after that, it'll still have that slight pulldown/3:2 judder. This doesn't ordinarily bother NTSC people (doesn't bother me) but PAL people often find it annoying. And if, instead of slowing it down, it's converted to 29.97fps by blending, not only will it not be smoother, but you'll also have the annoying blending/ghost images/double images, blurriness to contend with.

[Bjs]

"I have recorded before their music videos from tv, and I can confirm that their music videos are all native PAL as it is progressive for every single frame (I'm from PAL region)."

What you have delivered via external source's ... ie , broadcaster's ... and what you recorded into (chosen format) are not alway's the same thing ...

You may have simply set your equipment to record in pal format , that's why you are getting that report .

"and I can confirm that their music videos are all native PAL as it is progressive for every single frame (I'm from PAL region). "

The two dont alway's add up ...

Being in au (pal) ... if you watch carefully alot of those silly cartoon's like samuri jack , south park ... and there was a rip off of big brother on sbs some time ago ... you can see some are not 25fps rate's ... they are no where near as smooth in playback ... and scanline's can be seen .

[chickens]

"You may have simply set your equipment to record in pal format , that's why you are getting that report ."

I know what you mean. But the software automatically detects the signal is PAL and thats why i recorded in PAL ie 25fps/576 height resolution.

[chickens]

Hi-

What my concern is, is there a possibility that the videos that is fitted as NTSC format in the dvd be progressive as well?

There's always that possibility, but I wouldn't count on it. Unless these people have some money to go back to the original elements to make a proper NTSC master, the chances are better that they'll just use the PAL master and blend the hell out of it to convert it to NTSC. So, I'd bet on a blended, interlaced NTSC DVD, But there's no real way to know unless you buy the DVD.

If a video is converted from native PAL (meaning all frames progressive) to NTSC (29.97 fps), will the motion be smoother?

No, it'll never be smoother than the original. Even if the conversion is done properly, by slowing it to 23.976fps and applying pulldown after that, it'll still have that slight pulldown/3:2 judder. This doesn't ordinarily bother NTSC people (doesn't bother me) but PAL people often find it annoying. And if, instead of slowing it down, it's converted to 29.97fps by blending, not only will it not be smoother, but you'll also have the annoying blending/ghost images/double images, blurriness to contend with.

Sigh...I know thats the biggest possibility that usually they would just take the PAL and convert to NTSC. But I'm really puzzled....why would they want to release NTSC when the dvd isnt really for distribution to US country [the dvd region is only from 2-5..doesnt include region 1]. This dvd is released for Europe market, why dont they just release PAL ? Isnt that a waste of time converting to NTSC ? Is it due to NTSC is cheaper to product ? (lol...i got this from some friend...but i'm not sure) ..what a weird record label.

For (ii)... i tried doing so. I used Procoder, the PAL video is converted to 23.97fps... (yes the audio pitch and timing has changed...more accurately, playback speed changed) and then from 23.97fps...changed to 29.97fps.....the result doesnt seem to see any judder..infact..looks smooth...[no ghost images/blending/double images] but the only problem is the pitch...any way to solve it? lol

[manono]

Hi-

but the only problem is the pitch...any way to solve it? lol

You did a test (not the group you started the thread about, right?) by taking a different PAL DVD and slowing it to 23.976fps? Often the PAL audio has the incorrect pitch because of 24->25fps conversion, and by slowing it back to NTSC framerate you're restoring the correct pitch. However, to answer your question, yes, a number of WAV editors, and even AviSynth, can slow audio while at the same time maintaining the original pitch. But, not being an audio expert, someone else will have to tell you a good WAV editor to do this.

By the way, should you get this DVD, and should it be victimized by a bad PAL2NTSC conversion, if you're handy with AviSynth, you can unblend it fairly easily. It won't look as good as if it were 23.976fps progressive originally, but it will look much better than a nasty blended interlaced 29.97fps DVD.

[chickens]

:/ ... i dont think i will encode... my pc is about to RIP soon....everytime i encode..it will reboot after 3-4 minutes...so before this, i just did 1-2 minutes encoding and stop it. Anyway, thanks for your info about Avisynth...but i'm no handy with it...maybe i try tmpgenc or vdub first :P

[manono]

The only way to undo the PAL2NTSC blends is through AviSynth, frameserved to an encoder such as CCE or TMPGEnc. There is absolutely no other way. There is no VDub filter that can do the job.

And if your computer is about to die, then you'll have a nice new one very soon, right? Good luck.

[chickens]

Oh i see, then i shall check on it... but maybe i know the term for "undo the PAL2NTSC blends" ?...cant seem to find guides with that phrase lol

[manono]

Hehe, what you want is the RePAL filter:

http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

LeakKernelBob(Order=1)
RePAL()

The AviSynth function Restore24 can also be used. Most of the threads about these kinds of things are in the AviSynth Forum over at Doom9.

[chickens]

oh dear.... the dvd has arrived....as expected...nasty converts x.x