DGpulldown and other "changing framerate" questio

[inferno6a]

1. I have a 23.976 fps progressive avi file(an anime episode i got from somewhere) . If i want to convert it to PAL DVD format with proper settings and dgpulldown to change to 25 fps, will I be able to get a progressive video when i play the resulting disc back on my progressive scan dvd player ? (with component cables and such) or wil the output by dgpulldown be interlaced?

I ask this question because when I load the vob file back in virtualdub using DGindex with "honor pulldown flags" ticked and scroll through the frames 1 by 1 the frames seem to be interlaced or something. at least i saw combing effects.

Please do not tell me just convert it to ntsc or leave it in avi and play on a divx capable player and such. I have my reasons for not doing so though I know they are alternative solutions.
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The next question is avisynth related question.

2. How do "ChangeFPS" command work? By duplicating and adding frames ?
Does it cause jerkiness during playback?

3. I notice when i use dgpulldown on a 25 min show when i open my software dvd player and play the vob file I get a 25 min show that is normal. However when i burned the mpg file usign Ulead moviefactory 4(just burn and do not apply any convertion) and play the disc with the software player it give me a 24 min 5 sec show. Doing the same with nero Vision in nero 7 premium give me a 24 min 33 sec show.
However I do not think the length of the show has changed, more like the timing is abit messed up, like the timer will stop at 12:25 for a few second before moving on to 12:26 although the show did not hang or jerk. Audio and video sync has no problems as well.

Do anyone know why this happen, how serious is this problem(does it really affect the playbackspeed ?) and anyway to prevent it ? Browsing to the vob file on the disc and opening it specifially will not have such problem.

4.How do commercial PAL dvd retain a progressive video although the film source is 23.976 fps ? Do they do the "4% speed up" or using pulldown flags or duplicating/blending frames?

5.Same as question 4.But for NTSC DVD

6. How does quality of dgpullldown compared to the pulldown option available in various encoders ? or do they mean different thing or uses totally different techiques?

[guns1inger]

In answer to 4, film source is actually 24fps (NTSC is not film), and yes, commercial transfers generally just speed things up to 25fps.

NTSC transfer at 23.976 and apply 2:3 pulldown flags so playback is 29.976. That is, if it is done properly. It may well get butchers to 29.976 if it is done on the cheap.

[manono]

Hi-

1. Is this Progressive Scan player also outputting to a progressive display (DLP, LCD, Plasma, Projector, etc)? It had better be. So yes, of course it'll be progressive. As for whether or not it'll have been deinterlaced to make it progressive depends on the quality of your DVD player. Mine plays pure undeinterlaced progressive frames, but the majority don't.

I ask this question because when I load the vob file back in virtualdub using DGindex with "honor pulldown flags" ticked and scroll through the frames 1 by 1 the frames seem to be interlaced or something. at least i saw combing effects.

Yes, that's the telecined output you see. Again, what your player does with it depends on how good it is. Some crappy flag reading basic Philips progressive scan player will deinterlace it to make it progressive. Either way though, you shouldn't see any combing on the TV set. And it may still look decent, depending on how good its deinterlacer is.

2. Yes, if you go the ChangeFPS(25) route, then it'll insert 1 duplicate frame every second. Whether or not you notice it will depend on how sensitive you are to it. During certain kinds of movement (slow panning shots, for example) it will be noticeable, I think, if you're looking for it. Only you can decide whether or not you find it too annoying. I do similar things from time to time and it doesn't bother me much. I'm in NTSC land though, and am so used to the 3:2 pulldown stutter that it doesn't bother me. If you're in a PAL land, you may be more sensitive to it.

3. I don't use those programs you mentioned, so I don't know. Using Muxman for authoring DVDs doesn't cause the problems you describe. I think it may also be a player issue. Did you say what you're using to play the videos? Please don't say WMP.

4. As guns1inger said, ordinarily film is sped up to PAL 25fps. There are other ways to do it, but not by flagging it the way that DGPulldown does. I have heard of cases, although not seen any yet myself, where they do insert duplicate frames. A more common way to insert a dupe frame is to insert it in the form of a field every half second to minimize the jerkiness. Another way is to blend the hell out of it to go from 24 to 25fps.

5. guns1inger handled that one.

6. Every other pulldown, either within the encoder or with Pulldown.exe afterwards will only do 23.976->29.97. About the only difference is if its 2:3 Pulldown or 3:2 pulldown. DGPulldown allows pulldown to be performed from any progressive source framerate of 2/3 the output framerate on up.

[inferno6a]

Yes, that's the telecined output you see. Again, what your player does with it depends on how good it is. Some crappy flag reading basic Philips progressive scan player will deinterlace it to make it progressive. Either way though, you shouldn't see any combing on the TV set. And it may still look decent, depending on how good its deinterlacer is.

so if i got a good player it will be able to output uninterlaced progressive frames even with the telecined output?

Btw do manuals of players mention how they deal with frames and such? like output progressive directly or deinterlace and such.

[manono]

Hi-

Again, this applies only if you have a progressive display. I don't think you've said yet. No interlaced display (a regular old standard CRT TV set) will have any problems with DGPulldown output. And one way or another, for a progressive display, the combing should be removed. I might suggest taking one of the DGPulldowned DVDRs to a store to play it and check how the player handles it. But the answer to your first question is yes.

Since DGPulldown 23.976->25 won't be found in any commercial DVD, I don't think any player manual will discuss playback of that kind of telecining. There are some similar ways to convert 24fps to 25fps, but nothing quite the same. This thread discusses the same thing, and Kika's response to my post might help some. Both his Denon and my Oppo have the Faroudja FL-2310 chipset. It or similar are the best at this. Most other chipsets will have problems of one sort or another:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=781967#post781967

[inferno6a]

thanks for the explanation. and I have a 37 inch(or maybe 39 ,not sure ) benq LCD TV connected with component cables.