Church Media Ministry, need some suggestions

[videodummy]

I hope this isn't too far off topic.

I have a small media ministry for my church. I've been converting VHS to DVD using ATIMMC.

I am wanting to go directly to digital. I thought I had solved my problem. JVC has a camera that goes directly to 30 gig hard drive and saves in an MPEG2 format. All you have to do is drag and drop.

Well, upon looking closer at the store, the camera has only an internal mic and no way of recording Audio direct from the sound board at the church.

Does anyone know of any device I can go audio/video out directly to hard drive and record as an MPEG2. I know many cam corders have audio/video input that allows for external audio sources.

I really don't want to go from the camera into a capture card.

Any suggestions?

[pijetro]

JVC has a camera that goes directly to 30 gig hard drive and saves in an MPEG2 format

But aren't you already doing that by capturing with ATIMMC??

I'm missing something here..
Your ATIMMC is capable of capturing to MPEG2..So why would you spend the extra money on a camera to do the same job that your ATI card does??

[ipdave]

Would it not be easier to use a DV camera and stream it out to a Firewire card, capturing (or converting) on the fly to a HD?

Or, DV camera to a settop box DVD-HD recorder (less than $300 with HD, less than $100 for DVD only). You can record 2 hours straight to DVD, then edit later with TMPG DVD Author or somesuch program.

I record to DV camera, then later hook up to a standalone settop box to record to DVD, then edit and reburn in the PC.

[gadgetguy]

I don't know of another Cam to recommend but another option if you want to use that camera or if you're using multiple cameras
Record the audio from the sound board into the computer as a wav file, and mux it with the video later. In your editing software use the poor audio from the video to synch up with the good audio. Once they're in synch, remove the poor audio.

[edDV]

Your process seems unclear.

Are you trying to save time or are you trying to get high quality?

What is the purpose of this video? Does it need to be edited before going to DVD?

What does the audio board have to do with VHS tape?

VHS to ATIMMC is a direct digital capture. No camera is needed.

Try again to explain your process.

[chongo]

I'll agree with Gadgetguy -> You can always demux the poor audio out and remux the good back in. With TMPGenc it's cheap and quick.

And you could always try http://www.camcorderinfo.com. I think a mic-in would be a good bet; I'm sure with a trip to radio shak you could get your soundboard output into your camcorder mic-in.

[videodummy]

I'll try to touch on all of your responses.

Currently, I'm capturing the video of the services from a VHS camcorder.

It's not the best quality, but I am able to record the audio to the VHS directly from the soundboard/mixer. I have to take the VHS tape home, play it into my ATIMMC card, which takes the full length of the time of the service, then edit it, and I still basically have VHS quality. Crap in, crap out.

Also, I am trying to save time, and get as high a quality as possible.

I'm trying to avoid having to capture to a computer as I record with the digital camcorder I am planning to purchase. I was set to get the JVC Everio, which has a built in hard drive of 40 gig. It was exactly what I wanted. It recorded in MPEG2, right to the hard drive. All you have to do is drag and drop to my HOME computer for editing using 2.0 USB.

It would have been perfect, but the camera does not allow for an external audio input. It will only record audio open air through the camera's built in mic.

My goal is to put church service on DVD for sale to members. But, I want to avoid the time consuming process of uploading each service by using capture methods.

I have, since posting this, found a device that is very expensive that will allow me to go direct to a 80 gig hard drive, which allows recording the file as an MPEG2 on the fly, as you record the service. It is Focus Enhancement's Firestor FS-4 Pro. But the darned thing is about $1600. The camera I was looking at, which had a 40 gig and permitted 7 hours recording at full resolution, was only $709.

Now, I'm looking at having to drop $1600 for the stand alone hard drive device, as well as money for a camcorder that will permit external audio-in and out.

I know I can upload using DV tapes, but they're only one hour long, which isn't feasable for a church service if it goes over an hour.

The cameras that record to mini DVD-R are not feasable for the same reason, only 1 hour of recording time.

I'm also trying to stay away from going directly to the computer hard drive as I record, which I know how to do, and could do, but the problem is; our media booth is so tight that I really don't have room for a computer.


ipdave,

I'm not familiar with settop box. Is that something like the Focuse Enhancement product I mentioned above? If I could find something for $300 dollars that would allow me to record to hard drive as MPEG2, which would allow me to drag and drop to my home computer, I'd love to learn more about it.

Maybe this will give you guys a clearer idea of what I'm up against.

[edDV]

Now I understand your need. Bad that the JVC has no audio in.

There are cheaper HDD solutions than the Firestor FS-4 Pro. I'll try to find them again.

Here is one. I can't attest to its quality
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=292548&...goryNavigation

more
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&Q=&is=REG&O=productlist&sku=270213
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=382156&...goryNavigation
http://www.markertek.com/ProdList.asp?cat=VIDEOEQUIP&subcat=&prodClass=VHDISK&search=0&off=0
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=329205&...goryNavigation


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=breadCrumb&A=search&Q=&ci=6544

These will work with any MiniDV or Digital8 camcorder.

I'd go with the FireStore FS-4 (basic model)
http://www.focusinfo.com/products/firestore/firestore.htm

[videodummy]

Now I understand your need. Bad that the JVC has no audio in.

There are cheaper HDD solutions than the Firestor FS-4 Pro. I'll try to find them again.

Here is one. I can't attest to its quality
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=292548&...goryNavigation

more
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&Q=&is=REG&O=productlist&sku=270213
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=382156&...goryNavigation
http://www.markertek.com/ProdList.asp?cat=VIDEOEQUIP&subcat=&prodClass=VHDISK&search=0&off=0
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=329205&...goryNavigation


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=breadCrumb&A=search&Q=&ci=6544

These will work with any MiniDV or Digital8 camcorder.

I'd go with the FireStore FS-4 (basic model)
http://www.focusinfo.com/products/firestore/firestore.htm

Thanks for the great links.

I may have to end up going with the FS-4, but I was wanting to get one with more hard drive capacity. I have Lexus needs on a Volkswagen budget.

My goal was to record both the morning and evening service without having to take the storage device home and upload between services.

Do any of you guys have any idea how long it would take to upload appproximately an hour's worth of video file, and MPEG2 file, I'm guessing the file size would be aroundusing a 2.0 USB? I have 1.66Ghxz, 768 MB of Ram and am running XP 2000. I'd guess that would be about a 13.5 Gig file since the 40 gig advertizes that it will record 3 hours at full resolution.

[edDV]

Those portable drives all record in DV format ~13.5GB/hr. IEEE-1394 or USB2 transfer to a computer HDD would take approx. 5-10 minutes per hour of material (@~200-400Mb/s).

You would still need to encode to MPeg2 as a separate step. Your machine is on the weak side for encoding but it could still be done overnight (@~90-200min per hour of recording depending on software encoder used).

How many minutes are you trying to fit on a DVD? Best to edit down to less than 90 minutes for good quality.

[videodummy]

Those portable drives all record in DV format ~13.5GB/hr. IEEE-1394 or USB2 transfer to a computer HDD would take approx. 5-10 minutes per hour of material (@~200-400Mb/s).

You would still need to encode to MPeg2 as a separate step. Your machine is on the weak side for encoding but it could still be done overnight (@~90-200min per hour of recording depending on software encoder used).

How many minutes are you trying to fit on a DVD? Best to edit down to less than 90 minutes for good quality.

See, that's the beauty of the JVC Everio line, as well as the more expensive Focus Enhancement FS-4 PRO, they will both give you the option of recording as an MPEG2.

With that option, All I have to do is drag and drop the MPEG to my hard drive, open it in pinnacle and add any title pages and edit any garbage out, render it back as an MPEG2 and I've only invested maybe 20 minutes of time per video.

In some cases if I had a good clean burn I wouldn't even have to edit. I'd just pop it into Nero and edit the start/end of the MPEG there, add my menus and be done. 10 minutes worth of work tops.

That's why I want the MPEG2 technology. It cuts out most of the work.

I really can't understand why JVC would not have that option available with that camera. I know most of the miniDV cams have it.

Some of the mini DV, Sony in particular, allows for the A\V OUTPUT to become input on the Audio side once you go to record mode. All you have to do is take your stereo outs from the sound board, plug it into the A/V Out on the camera, and it becomes input for audio.

How simple would it have been for JVC to do this? Very!

The story of my life.

[edDV]

Have you called JVC to confirm there are no external mic inputs? If there is a way, you can use a matching transformer or better yet a Beachtek box to interface the audio board line level.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa2s.html

[edDV]

An alternative way to do it

1. Portable PC case with adequate HDD, memory and processor.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16856101468

2. Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-250 (hardware MPeg2 encoder)
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?ref=froogle&pfp=froogle&product_code=...a=&cm_ite=feed

Plug in camera and audio then record MPeg2 to HDD, edit, author, burn.

[anitract]

I think edDV has a good idea. I don't think a hauppauge card would be too much more work for you...really just getting aquanted with the software...the only downfall is that its not as portable as the JVC camera you mentioned....but if you are going to be recording mostly from one stationary location you should be fine.

[videodummy]

OK,

Now you guys are going to see why I chose the name I use here.

Is the WinTV product a capture card?

Are you talking about using the capture card in the Suttle Box?

Or, are you talking about using the card in my home computer. I already have an ATIMMC card in my home computer.

Eddv, if you could expound on your recommendations I'd be very grateful.

Thanks, and sorry for being so slow on the uptake. I was born on the wrong end of the technological revolution.

[Brainiac]

Hi

We are doing the exact thing at our church. We have a Canon gl2 - (were previously using a Sony consumer D8 camera.) We have the camera mic input from our sound board, then camera S-VHS output input into a pioneer set to recorder (non hd), and the audio from the camera (using the A/V cables) to the set top recorder. Quality and sound are great!

Brainiac

[edDV]

OK,

Now you guys are going to see why I chose the name I use here.

Is the WinTV product a capture card?

Are you talking about using the capture card in the Suttle Box?

Yes and yes
The PVR-150/250/350 series is a hardware capture and MPeg2 encoder card. Shuttle boxes are semi portable computers (lunch box) that can be moved easily.

Or, are you talking about using the card in my home computer. I already have an ATIMMC card in my home computer.

Eddv, if you could expound on your recommendations I'd be very grateful.

Thanks, and sorry for being so slow on the uptake. I was born on the wrong end of the technological revolution.

The idea is you take the same (or less) money as the FireStore4 and build a dedicated semi-portable computer that takes S-Video and audio in to the PVR card, realtime encodes MPeg2 to local HDD (any size). No you can't do this on a laptop.

Then you take the box home, edit the MPeg2 and author and burn the DVDs.

[videodummy]

OK,

Now you guys are going to see why I chose the name I use here.

Is the WinTV product a capture card?

Are you talking about using the capture card in the Suttle Box?

Yes and yes
The PVR-150/250/350 series is a hardware capture and MPeg2 encoder card. Shuttle boxes are semi portable computers (lunch box) that can be moved easily.

Or, are you talking about using the card in my home computer. I already have an ATIMMC card in my home computer.

Eddv, if you could expound on your recommendations I'd be very grateful.

Thanks, and sorry for being so slow on the uptake. I was born on the wrong end of the technological revolution.

The idea is you take the same (or less) money as the FireStore4 and build a dedicated semi-portable computer that takes S-Video and audio in to the PVR card, realtime encodes MPeg2 to local HDD (any size). No you can't do this on a laptop.

Then you take the box home, edit the MPeg2 and author and burn the DVDs.

After looking at the shuttle, I'm still a little confused.

How do you set up the box and the capture card?

How do you monitor what you're doing with the box. Do you have to hook up a monitor? Keyboard?

[gshelley61]

Why not use a standalone DVD recorder? If you get one with a hard drive and a DV input, you could directly record the audio and video output of any camcorder (including a MiniDV camcorder) in real time. You can do some editing on the DVD recorder with the remote control, then burn discs right from the hard drive. No need to download anything. Plus, the unit can play DVD's for you, too.

I think that would be much simpler and faster, and the results will easily rival (or beat) a computer MPEG2 capture system.

[edDV]

Why not use a standalone DVD recorder? If you get one with a hard drive and a DV input, you could directly record the audio and video output of any camcorder (including a MiniDV camcorder) in real time. You can do some editing on the DVD recorder with the remote control, then burn discs right from the hard drive. No need to download anything. Plus, the unit can play DVD's for you, too.

I think that would be much simpler and faster, and the results will easily rival (or beat) a computer MPEG2 capture system.

He wanted to do editing and titles. Otherwise this could work.

[videodummy]

Why not use a standalone DVD recorder? If you get one with a hard drive and a DV input, you could directly record the audio and video output of any camcorder (including a MiniDV camcorder) in real time. You can do some editing on the DVD recorder with the remote control, then burn discs right from the hard drive. No need to download anything. Plus, the unit can play DVD's for you, too.

I think that would be much simpler and faster, and the results will easily rival (or beat) a computer MPEG2 capture system.

He wanted to do editing and titles. Otherwise this could work.

Eddv,

Did you see my last question about the Shuttle?

How does it work? Do you use a monitor and keyboard to set it up.

I can't figure how the box works.

Will it just capture the video and audio like ATI and put it into an MPEG2?

If it's like a mini-computer, does it require monitor, keyboard, or do you set it up and it automatically captures when running?

[edDV]

After looking at the shuttle, I'm still a little confused.

How do you set up the box and the capture card?

It's a small computer that you assemble from parts. It has two PCI card slots. One could be used for the PVR card.

How do you monitor what you're doing with the box. Do you have to hook up a monitor? Keyboard?

Yes, but for what you are doing, a 640x480 S-Video output to a local video monitor may be enough of a computer display to support recording.

This would save carrying the monitor.


These come in many configurations. some have on-motherboard video outputs.
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/roundupmobo/barebones-roundup-feb2k3.html
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/shuttlexpcss51gbarebone/
http://www.i-tech.com.au/products/334_Shuttle_Barebone_Mini.asp
http://ostg.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib.php/page_id=1426/vendors%5B%5D=PGSHU