Standalone DVD Recorders vs. Computer DVD Writers?
What are the Pros and Cons?
Thanks,
Rond66
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I would think that it would depend on your needs.
If you just want to transfer old videotapes to DVD or record your favorite TV shows, and you do not have a lot of time to fiddle with encoding mpeg2 files or aren't comfortable around computers, then a standalone would probably be the best - albeit expensive - solution.
If you also need to backup gigabytes worth of data, or backup your DVD collection, and are comfortable enough around a computer (and have the time) to learn how to also capture TV and VHS signals and convert them to DVD-compliant files, then you can get a DVD burner and a video capture card/external device (and software, etc) for as much (if not less) than a standalone player.
Personally, I have a computer DVD writer -- I'll wait for standalone burners to come WAY down in price before I buy one.
Anyway...So what are your needs? -
Before I brought my current computer setup & DVD burner, I looked into buying a standalone DVD recorder. Good thing I didn't, as the price on the Panasonic dropped about $200 a couple of weeks later!
At one of the local computer shows, I met a dealer who sells DVD's of old TV shows made on a standalone DVD recorder. He records them in 6 hour mode, and I thought the quality sucked! I get better quality on my VCD's! I'm sure in standard mode the quality is much better.
I guess for the standalone recorders, it's faster and easier to create a disc, but it's a no thrills type of thing. No fancy menus, multi-chapter access, etc. When I create a disc on my computer, I can author something very close to a professional style DVD, nice menus, extras, and have 4 to 5 hours in GREAT QUALITY on a single disc.
I may get a standalone recorder eventually to use like a VCR, but I like making my Hollywood style DVD's on computer. -
"a standalone would probably be the best - albeit expensive - solution."
Not necessarily, I bought a Panasonic DMR-E30 for $359. If you wanted to get the same kind of results with a computer, you would need to get a time base corrector (not cheap), a decent size hard drive, a decent capture card or device (atleast $199), and a DVD-R or DVD+R drive (atleast $199), a decent authoring program (atleast $50). That is atleast $549 and this is assuming one has adequate processing power ($179 for a 2.2Ghz P4), Win ME or XP ($110 for either), a mother board that can handle the processing power needed ($100 for a decent motherboard), and adequate memory ($50). That's another $439 if one's system is not up to par for video editing which totals almost $1000 and you might as well get a dell for $949 with most the items you need except for a monitor. What it comes down to is this: If you have a computer that has everything you need excluding a DVD-R/+R Drive and you insist on editing than using a computer is obviously the way to go. If you have a computer that is about 2 years old (like me) and you just want to record than a DVD Recorder is the way to go. I was upset at first when I discovered that I couldn't do manual chapter stops, but the manual title stops kind of made up for this. I just wanted something that would store all my Simpsons Episodes on DVD. The Panasonic has been doing that nicely. I will have artwork for the cases to make up for the plain menus.
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Erwin
Wow -- I hadn't seen a standalone listed for less than around $600-$700 or so (admittedly, I don't really scour the ads much for 'em anymore)...just checked epinions and saw prices for the Panasonic DMR-E30 as low as what you quoted!
I stand corrected -- and hopeful that maybe the price will drop to an acceptable level (for casual purchase) even sooner than I thought! -
"I stand corrected -- and hopeful that maybe the price will drop to an acceptable level (for casual purchase) even sooner than I thought!"
Don't feel bad, I didn't know either. I originally bought one for $499 (I thought that was a great deal then) and had it for 3 weeks. Fortunately, I was able to return it and get one $359. It's nice to have an extra $150 (tax included)
I hope they continue to drop too. $359 is affordable, but not to the typical average consumer. That won't come until it reaches the famous below $200 point. I remember paying $339 for my first Panasonic DVD (A110)player in 1998 which was one of the first DVD players to have "dts" available. -
Erwin,
you stated:I was upset at first when I discovered that I couldn't do manual chapter stops, but the manual title stops kind of made up for this.
I own a E-30 and was dissapointed to learn that there was no manual chapter point features and no control over video color, tint and hue while recording.
If you have a solution that works using the title feature please let me know.
Thanks
ej -
"I'm curious, how were you able to use the title stops on the E-30 to work similar to a chapter point?"
There is a trick to this though. You have to have a DVD player that will treat a title like a chapter (and several of them do). You probably already know this, but in order to make manual title stop, you record than push stop which makes one title than the next goes the same way. Some DVD players will not go to the next title via remote. But my ProScan and Pioneer do. Another work-around is this which should work on all DVD players. You find a display menu while you are watching the disc and you press a certain "title" button. -
For those of you who have not had the opportunity to use a standalone like the Panasonic E-30 are in for a shock.
The quality I find is much better than any capture card that I have used in my computer. I've use the Pinnacle Studio Deluxe, the ADS Instant DVD and the Broadway capture card (to name a few).
All of these devices have their ups and downs. I was unable to create many dvds using these devices because I had problem with areas on the video being too light, noise in the video signal that cause wierd video deffects, and the number one major problem "audio video sync problems".
Once I invested in the standalone I was pleasantly surprised. The video signal from the vhs was not very good but the end product from the standalone Panasonic E-30 was much better. I am mostly using vhs tapes that have had some age on them, so the quality was good at best. The TBC and picture enhancement features alone are worth the price.
I now use a DVD ram disk to record my video on my standalone and then transfer it to my desktop and use Ulead's DVD Workshop to create beautiful menus to author. No longer do I have to covert video streams and the quality is better than any captures from my computer capture cards.
ej -
"the number one major problem "audio video sync problems".
Yep, this is true. I have tried many ways to capture on a computer and "audio video sync problems" are very irritating. I look at this way: Using a computer is like preparing a meal at home for your family and guest. Using a Panasonic is like going out to eat. The family spends hours cooking and preparing the meal, in addition, they also have to clean up (encoding). The other family just treats the guests to a restaurant and instantly eats the meal while not having to clean up (real time). Ok, the home cooked meal may have been more creative and personalized than the restuarant, but you got what you wanted.......good food (a decent DVD). -
I have found that computer capture cards - expecially ones that use the computer's sound card can have audio sync problems over longer captures. But even my Pinnacle DC1000 ($999) has this problems when fed older VHS tapes - and it has its own sound processing.
The solution was a time base corrector - in my case the TBC1000. It clears up any and all sound sync problems when used with a good capture card.
Now that I also have the DMR-E30 - I use it when recording from video tape (even though the E30 has a built in time base corrector). I don't trust its anti-copy protection not to kick in for no reason part way through a conversion - wasting a DVD-R. -
I have both the standalone Panasonic and the Sony DRU500.
First of all, it's total crap that the Panasonic has better quality than a computer DVD burner. The Panasonic captures at a variety of rates and the quality of the encoding compares almost identically to using a quality encoder, like MainConcept. IOW, disks I've created on both the computer and the standalone are indistinguisable in terms of quality. Obviously you need a setup that can correctly capture and encode your video to match up with the Panasonic, but it ain't hard to do.
As for the rest... I owned the Panasonic for over a year and then I bought the Sony burner. Someone here compared it to going out to eat versus cooking yourself, but I think the analogy is flawed. It's more like using convenience foods (like frozen dinners) versus cooking yourself. The food is probably just as filling, but the presentation isn't nearly as nice and it doesn't taste as good. But you do save a whole lot of work.
I now only use my Panasonic on things I probably won't watch much, if at all. For anything I want to show family or friends (as opposed to just me) it's strictly the Sony. Why? Because I want it to look professional, and the Panasonic just doesn't do that. Is it extra work? You betcha, but I believe that anything worth doing is worth doing well (and most of the work is done by the computer while I'm doing other things anyway).
It remains to be seen whether I'll get tired of the extra effort and go back and use the Panasonic -- that's always a possibility. But for now I'm happy I switched. But the litmus test is this: do you make labels for CDs that you burn yourself, or do you just write on them with a pen? If the latter then you'll be more than happy with a standalone burner. Or, if you record your favorite TV shows on VHS but don't worry about cutting out the commercials, then by all means go for the standalone. Those questions should help determine what kind of person you are and what you will expect from your DVDs. -
I've been capturing video using my computer for a few years now and have found it cumbersome and the only reason I continued was because I knew one day I would get the results I was looking for. I'm still waiting for that day. I've created VCDs, SVCDs and now DVDs. I've used most of the ultilites that this site has to offer. I'm not an authority but I know what I'm doing and I know what I'm looking for.
I am a very picky person when it comes to quality and the computer's capture cards in most cases do not measure up to the qualtiy I experienced using the E-30.
I own 2 time base correctors that cost me over $1000 for my computer and still the quality was not up to par with the E-30, I've use the expensive Broadway capture card, Dazzle capture products and Pinnacle's Studio Deluxe (to name a few). All these products claim to be able to capture video with great results.
I ran into audio video sync problems, over brightly lite areas where there shouldn't be, grainy video, and my favorite, jitters on the video in areas that seem to play fine on the VHS. I have lots of old tapes that need special processing features that the computer was not able to achieve to my satisfaction.
I applaud the technicians who created the TBC and video filters for the E-30. Video that had problems being captured to my computer were perfect when captured on the E-30.
Also I purchased a M-Filter $500 device to help correct video problems when capturing to the computer. The results were a smooth discolored video that had very little sharpness.
I've spent lots of money on computer capture devices and as far as I'm concerned it leaves a lot to be desired. I admit there are times I use it for little projects, but for the whole my Panasonic E-30 was the best investment I've made in a long time.
Just my opinion
ej -
Well, as long as we're posting credentials let me tell you I come from a broadcast TV background -- we have a $20K NLE suite in my house that I use for all serious projects.
That said, the Panasonic is a fine unit but not any better than doing firewire capture, which is direct digital and won't cause any artifacting or other sound problems unless you drop frames (which you shouldn't with the right setup). My setup for this purpose (not my high end NLE) is just a high-end XP Pro machine, but nowadays the cost is far less than $5K.
For people who are not interested in taking the time and effort to make the best disks the Panasonic is a terrific solution. I even recommend it to all my non-technical friends. It's the state of the art so far in standalone DVD burning, and I'm sure the next incarnation will offer more sophisticated menuing features.
However, using the state of the art technology on the computer side nowdays should result in perfect captures with not a lot more effort than using the Panasonic. No one should be discouraged from pursuing this approach if it fits their personality and goals better than using a standalone unit. -
Who you are means nothing to me, especially if what you are saying is half the story.
Anyone who wants good quality video using the computer will have to spend a lot of money to get any consumer video capture product to give them the quality you would get from the E-30.
Most of the products advertised do not peform as advertised. When I weigh in the cost of the additional filters and accessories I purchased just to get a good capture, I feel cheated.
Many people on several forums feel the same way. I want to make it clear that captures using firewire are indeed excellent with little or no filtering needed, but VHS captures need help. Especially if the video is from an old tape.
Most commerical products advertise that they can capture VHS tapes with ease, this is at most, misleading. Most of my captures are not firewire but archiving VHS tapes. I'm sure many other people are doing the same and that is why there is so many complaints in this area.
Think about it, how many home videos do you need to make? I'm sure the lack of quality from VHS tapes are the driving force for many people to look into digital technology.
I have made many good captures using my computer after spending much more money than I would of if I had purchased an E-30 in the first place.
I also use the E-30 to capture video to DVD-ram and then edit the video on my computer with DVD authoring software.
I'm not against using the computer and I still do at times, but buyer beware.
ej -
I have tried $600 worth of capture devices Ads instant DVD works good on hardly been played vhs tapes but forget any tapes that have touched Video heads at least 20 times, Canopus ADV!394 that doesn't even work with my computer maybe I will get a new computer to make this $250 card work someday before the 3yr warrenty expires
Pinacle systems card more work than it was worth
Don't buy things when they first come out Sony dvd +rw burner $600 used 20 times the discs were too expensive to make it feasable and doesn't do +r
Panasonic dvd-r/ram burner $450 dvd-r function makes more coasters than watchable dvd's never used the ram
Ah at last Pioneer A04 400 + discs burned and only 30 coasters that were media problems -
Thanks Birdygal,
You are saying what I've been trying to say in other posts. The computer has been a big disappointment. Believe me I love computers, I would prefer to use a computer anyday because of the freedom to create beautiful menus (like Hollywood). Without the right equipment it will still be a dream.
I also tried the ADS Instant DVD, that was the worst of them all. If you are making VCD or SVCD then quality may not be such a big deal and audio sync may not bother you as much. Yet, if you pay big dollars for DVD equipment and find it doesn't work after making coasters out of costly media, then it is a big deal.
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is the new panasonic DMR-50 any good i can get one at a military store for 499.00 - 25% open box and no tax. i currently have the sony dru500a but have not time to fiddle with capturing and encoding. thanks
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I read all the posts and i have one question......
For a dv tape transfering to dvd-r is best to use DVD-R standalone (thinking of Sony RDR-GX7) or my pc's DVD-r (pioneer a04) with encoders like procoder & cce???
Has anybody ever tried
1) through firewire (in) to record on a standalone dvd recorder a dv tape from a dv camcorder (out) and then compare it to
2) a dv avi captured through firewire computer and encoded to mpeg2 for the dvd-r??? -
I have used the DMR-E30 for about a week, transferring some of my Dig8 tapes to DVD using this stand alone recorder. Then I returned it (was 600$ at that time), I was glad I did.
Here are my two cents regarding the DMR-E30
1) I do not like its stupid menu and chapter points (every xx mins)
2) the capture quality is good but not as good as Dig8 captured via Firewire to computer (and then make DVD from there)
3) the stand alone recorder is excellent for people who:
a) do not have time
b) do not have computer knowledge (this is not a sin though)
c) do not want to waste time messing around with the computer to make DVD.
The computer path is defintely more fun once you figure out how to do it correctly, with excellent quality. I do not have to repeat other good things here. Here are the down sides:
1) you need to spend much more than 370$ (lowest price for DMR-E30 as of today)
2) you need to play around with various hardware / software config before you get what you want
3) you will change your mind on what you want as your knowledge increases (still menu to motion menu, PCM audio to AC3 audio, CBR to VBR, etc...). This could be a PLUS (you will do much better) as well as a MINUS (you regret having burned so many DVDs with lesser....)
I went the computer way because I already got a decent computer when making VCD two years ago. I already got a Dig8 Camcorder as my DV capture device, it was mainly to video tapes family events.ktnwin - PATIENCE -
Just remember you get what you pay for. Sure, my $10K in personal video hardware cost a lot of money, but I've managed to make at least $60K from freelancing the past 5 years, not to mention that my real job includes video work where I make a nice chunk of change.
If you just want something for yourself, and don't have money, then buy the cheap stuff. There's nothing wrong with that. I buy the off-brand Cheerio's at the store all the time. They taste fine to me, and a standalone may be fine for you.
Just realize that true high-quality work WILL require a bit of money, and it WILL be done on a computer of some kind, whether a NLE setup or a homemade computer studio.
FYI: it doesn't have to be that much money. I bought a P4 computer (my backup system), with a DVD-R burner, 384 SDRAM, 80 gig HD, ATI AIW 7500 all for $600 in January 2003 (built it piece by piece). Add a JVC HRS9800U ($400) and a datavideo TBC-1000 ($200), all bought on sale, and you can get an awesome computer/gaming center/video machine for a little over $1K. (You can even skimp on the JVC and get the lower 7900 model and the lower TBC units, as they are decent too - I just spoil myself with the best items I can buy.)
You cannot beat that price with a stick, you just have to know how to shop ($600 computer + VCR/TBC costs). Add some software for about $1K more and you're set. Less if you don't want to have the good stuff. (Way less for the pirates out there.)
I'd agree.
Standalone -vs- Computer =
Microwaving the frozen dinner -vs- Cooking it yourselfI'm not online anymore. Ask BALDRICK, LORDSMURF or SATSTORM for help. PM's are ignored. -
So let me ask this question ... If I use the e30 to record onto DVD-RAM, then get a DVD-RAM/-R drive for my computer, wouldn't that give me the best of both worlds? I could record and edit on the standalone using DVD-RAM, then when I am through, I could copy the file onto my computer hard drive and reburn to DVD-R. I could also add creative menus if I want to before I burn to DVD-R. Does this sound feasible?
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Isn't the issue simply you can't record to a DVD in AVI form via a standalone machine? And to really do the cool/fun/professional editing you need AVI file type?
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Most replies focus on the capturing, but what about encoding?
I use a PC, but capturing is not an issue. I use my sony DV camera for that and it works perfect.
But what's the difference between a stand-alone and a PC just focussed on encoding?
Has anyone for example compared a full resolution, already digital home video copied to DVD with a standalone recorder in highest quality and with a high qualty PC encoder?
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