dvd is the vhs of the future

[jeex]

dvd is a good format, but its not perfect. i've seen a crapload of dvd movies. they look good on my tv, but when i watch them on my computer i notice artifacts. some are way more noticable on certain dvd's.. for example lock, stock & two smoking barrels, probably because they have both the widescreen & the fullscreen version of the movie on one disc and they have to lower the bitrate for each to fit them both on one disc. but still even on dvd's that are 6 and a half gig (the actual movie itself, not the trailers, extra's and such), you notice slight artifacts.. and this is with many movies, and recent releases..

you may be asking? hey fockface, why does this matter? most of us watch them on tv, we wont even notice the artifacts. our vcd's look as good as vhs on our tv's when we play them through our standalone dvd players.. and our (x)/svcd's look like dvd's when we watch them on our standalone dvd players (hah!).. well you're right.. but, dvd is supposed to take over for vhs, and its supposed to be a superior format.. what happens when we all get our hdtv's and start noticing these artifacts (especially with vcd's & (x)/svcd's)? then it will become noticable, annoying, and we will see (litteraly) that dvd isnt all that its cracked up to be.. i mean it is a good format, but no where near as good as it should be for a format that is supposed be around for a long long time..

i think fmd (when it reaches its prime) and its 1 terabyte (1000 gig) , along with a new scheme of encoding video should be up to the task of providing a "perfect" (or as close to perfect as you can get) video disc.

hmm... maybe dvd really is comparable (as of now) to a 8-track, sega genesis/snes, or even a station wagon.. y'know, in the future when we look back to now..

cos i mean, seroiusly. if you are going to introduce a home electical entertainment appliance you need to provide something that is going to last atleast 15 years and still be the main thing.. and honestly, i dont think dvd will be thought of as that when people start watching dvd's on hdtv's.. dvd was introduced a few years too soon, for various reasons. but in retrospect, it was..

that is why i say, in a few years we will look back and think "dvd is the vhs of the future", and we'll all start going out and buying our fmvd players (fluorescent multi-layer video/versatile disc)


as for audio, i think we're reaching the peak of what can be provided. maybe with dvd-audio coming out we'll reach the peak, but after that it will just be tweaking and false "improvements".. cos seriously, the human ear is reaching the limit of what we will notice as "better".. i guess the only real limitation of audio will be the audio systems we own..

[pacmania_2001]

Are you sure that the artifacts arent caused by your computer being sluggish or just running slow that day. I watched a DVD in a Home Entertainment Theatre Shop on a massive HDTV and didnt see one artifact at all. FMD should rule though if and when it ever becomes commercially available

[kinneera]

Some interesting reading:

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#2.9

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#2.13

[jeex]

I'm running a p3 833mhz, with 256mb of ram, and a decoder card.. my system is very capable of running dvd movies perfectly..

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maybe you wont notice the artifacts, because you will get the same presentation a normal tv would. but you wont get the high quality picture that hdtv is capable of because of the limitations of dvd

[kinneera]

An HD-DVD format is under discussion by the creators of DVD - one that would allow video quality much closer to the capabilities of HDTV, and which would be backward compatible with existing DVDs. We might just end up totally spoiled.

[Hotskillz]

No matter how much you improve and tweak audio settings, you still cant beat that classic scratchy sound of a 45 record on a mono system.

[PimpInDaHouse]

Maybe you souldn't expect perfection on a DVD player they are new. You may say "no they have been out for a few years" but the key word there is few a few year meaning it takes time to progress nothing is perfect when it first comes out. And I have played DVDs on my computer and I have noticed one thing it looks a love of a lot better then my TV no artifacts at all maybe you have a crappy DVD player on your computer.

[Greg12]

DVD is new. VHS has been around for abot 10 years and DVD 2.

I think the DVD-Consoritum is scared of MPEG 4.

[Greg12]

I luv DVD's with a full screen movie.

[TIbrO]

VHS was around way before TIbrO, nevermind 10 years ago...

[Beretta]

VHS has been around for 10 years? Are you smoking crack? Try more like 20.

It's been around for roughly as long as the CD. (21 years)

[TIbrO]

My reaction exactly, Baretta! Hehehe!

[PimpInDaHouse]

DVD was introduced to consumers around 1997 they have not been around for 10 years and VHS is like 15 to 20 years old. Where the h-e-l-l did you get the idea of 10 years for each. If they where both 10 years old why the h-e-l-l would anyone bring out VHS if DVDs look and sound 10 times better. Quit smokin rock you crack head.

[thxkid]

crap are you people all under 30 or something, Beta cames out in 1975 and JVC brought out VHS in 1976, Laser Disc came out by Pioneer in 1979.
Yes you are right DVD is the VHS(CRAPvision).
We had something better it was called LASER DISC but just like the Superior Format Beta went by the way side and now we got stuck with another inferior format just like VHS.

Beta Rules
Laser Disc Rules
The rest are just cheap imatations

[EBK]

Laserdisc is better? I've never seen it in person, but I just assumed DVD was better since it took off more than Laserdisc, and because it's a newer technology.

[wildcatfan]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-29 16:39:13, thxkid wrote:
crap are you people all under 30 or something, Beta cames out in 1975 and JVC brought out VHS in 1976, Laser Disc came out by Pioneer in 1979.
Yes you are right DVD is the VHS(CRAPvision).
We had something better it was called LASER DISC but just like the Superior Format Beta went by the way side and now we got stuck with another inferior format just like VHS.

Beta Rules
Laser Disc Rules
The rest are just cheap imatations
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>


And just how the he11 is laserdisc better?? It has lower resolution.....Composite video is its native format (it actually converts that to s-video...the luma and chroma aren't natively seperate). Not to mention that you can only fit 60 min at most on one side...and thats the low quality clv discs....the higher Q cav discs are only 30 per side...(how'd you like about 4-5 discs for Ben hur in cav). Not to mention the F****** up way you have to jack the audio around. It's DTS OR DD not both. The only advantage LD has is some movies are available for it that aren't for DVD ala Starwars.

Michael

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wildcatfan on 2001-08-29 19:15:23 ]</font>

[vanillabox]

LaserDisk will kick the pants off of DVD ANY DAY in the image quality department, just as SVCD beats VCD. The only disadvantage that I have with LD over DVD is when I have a really good move in CAV (Star Wars Def Collection) I have to get up to change disks. With LD you do NOT get blocky pictures that I have seen on EVERY DVD Player I have seen. Add to that full THX sound.

[jeex]

well IF laser disc is so good, and kicks dvd's ass all over the place. why dont they migrate the format to a smaller disc (ala dvd), and make them backwards compatible with those huge ass laser discs. who knows, maybe laser disc will make a comeback, instead of slowly dying, if they do this..

i guess the ld versus dvd thing is like people saying "vinyl sounds better than cd". and i think we all already know the answer to that one.. heh..
its only a matter of time before the dinosaurs die..

[pacmania_2001]

What is the storage capacity of a laser disk anyway in gigabyte terms?

[kinneera]

It's an analog storage medium - that's sort of like asking the GB storage capacity of a VHS tape.

[jeex]

i remember seeing in the back of a computer magazine a few years ago, and they were talking about how you could store data with some adapter on a vhs tape. i think it said it could store something like 30 gigabytes.

so hey, i guess you can measure the storage capacity of a vhs tape.

[pacmania_2001]

Shouldnt you be able to work it out by the bitrate and shit times the length of the movie?

[kinneera]

I guess for a VHS tape, you can make the argument that it is magnetic, which is fundamentally the same as a hard drive, just not random access. I think to decide how much space an ld holds would require that you select how it is to be read (pit density, laser wavelenth, etc) which makes for a lot more variables. If anyone can tell me the wavelength of laser light used to read an ld and its diameter measurement, I suppose I could estimate what it would be based on the calculations used for DVDs and CDs. Is it really that important though?

[pacmania_2001]

Not really, just wondering

[SatStorm]

Hey, we talking about compression here...

An uncompressed AVI is better than any mpeg 2, right?
A Laserdisc is better than any DVD....
And that, because we do not compress with Lasedisc...

It is easy like that to understand and yes, the future VHS is DVD. You know about Personal Video Recorder satellite receivers? It is an early example of the use of DVD as we use VHS today...

About Vinyl records and CDs.
I use to be a DJ for 8 years. I played to many clubs and raves... Well, Vinyl has a strange effect to the crowd. And it has to do with the algorithmic way our ears listen.
You see, CD reproduce only what our ears listen
Vinyl reproduce what we hear and some more harmony frequencies.
Those Frewuencies are noticable from our body and our brain, but not from our ears
The conclusion: You rave 8 hours with vinyl records, and you feel great (no drugs included).
You rave 3 hours with CDs and you have a headache (so you went to drugs, because you need something to "undestand" the music...).
With CD you don't feel the music, like you do with vinyl.

That had effect to the music indestry the last years too..
Early techno, trance, rave, acid, house, was full of melodies and harmonies even if it was electronic. Todays house, nei-disco (disco house) and trance is more energie, no melodies, just loops, strange vocals and beats. You see, you can't pass a melody feeling on those music styles with CD...
Rock from the other hand, because it is electric (electic quitars)with simply and clean sound, has a comeback the last 3 years. You can listen clean music solos in that music... No harmonies (like techno), but solo like - melodies. And cd can produce those quite well... So, you hear today's pop/dance music, and it is something fake in your ears. You listen rock and rock/pop and you have something to recornize, to follow in the song. So, that gives you something.

In europian countries there are still vinyl today, you will notice that dance music is more succesfull as entertainment, on other countries with only CDs, Rock raised again....

It is not only quality and fidelity. There are some things more with sound, no-one giving notice....

Another phenomens, id the success of mp3, not only because is handle (as it is common), but because in early stages you could played it only from PCs, and PCs have sound filters and software Dacs, so if you plug the pc with a sound amplifier, the results was better than CD. It was a technology trick, but hey, people love hear mp3's from PCs...
Todays there are standalone mp3s, but there are not good at this matter. Just try that to understand what I say: Hear the same mp3 on a PC and on a really good Standalone. You will notice huge difference...

Tip: You know Sonique mp3 player. It has fanatics, even if the other players are better. You know why?
'couse most Sonique's fanatics come from old vinyl lovers...
Enough with the sound

About VHS...
My first video was a sharp -tape looklike- model, on 1979...
I still have tapes from those years, and guess what: The picture is the same....

[kinneera]

Come on guys, it's never as simple as compressed or not compressed. Another generalization is that digital is always better than analog, in which case DVD is better. All generalizations are bad.