VERY IMPORTAONT: After learning to use the Philips Toolkit,

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Well, RFontenot, probebly knows the solution...
I built a project which contains of ONE data track (with the segments - NO MPEG Tracks) and adtitonal 15 RED Audio Tracks. I know I'm suppose to use Splitter to split the *.CD file (because i used Audio tracks), but from some reason, when I start the splitting it never finishes to split the first data track (data_trk) until it uses all the free space and than stucks...

If someone knows the solution, than please... HELP

[RFontenot]

I haven't run into that problem, but I have found a workaround that will let you use TOCSPLIT. There is a bug in TOCSPLIT that causes it not to calculate the size of the last audio track. The resulting mismatch between the calculated and expected filesizes causes TOCSPLIT to abend when processing an image with audio tracks.

The workaround is to edit the .toc file. Near the bottom, after the last audio track you'll see a line with "leadout audio". Change that to read "leadout data" and save. TOCSPLIT will now calculate the last audio track and proceed to split out the tracks.

You'll also need to check to .cue file. The audio files will not be listed as DA audio tracks, they'll be listed as XA data tracks. You'll need to edit the .cue file to correct the mislabeling before burning. This may be a result of the workaround.

I'm in contact with the author of TOCSPLIT about getting a new release with the audio track bug squashed.

RF

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RFontenot on 2001-08-05 15:31:10 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RFontenot on 2001-08-05 15:32:48 ]</font>

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Thanx Alot RF, I can't thank you enough. It worked.

Do you know, Is there a way to add CD TEXT to the Audio Tracks. I'm trying, but not successfull... YET...

[RFontenot]

Sorry, I don't know.

RF

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Oh, man. After I burned the project (Thanx alot byw), It wrks perfect in the DVD, but, in the CD player, it playes the first track (data track), do you know how can I make the project so the CD player won't see the Data track, just the Audio files?

[RFontenot]

It depends on your player. Newer CD players are supposed to recognize the data track and skip over it, but some don't.

For more info:

http://www.disctronics.co.uk/cdref/mixed/cdmixed.htm

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Yea, well, my cd player is the old type I guess. I'll try my previouse approuch. I'll try to build an "Enhanced CD":
Session1: Audio Tracks (With CD TEXT)
Session2: Video CD project

Oh, Do you know how can I make my Volume Label without the "_1"?
Foe example when I write the volume label "Superman", Toolkit automaticly makes it "Superman_1".

[RFontenot]

The _1 is put there by toolkit and as far as I know, isn't changeable. It's purpose is to identify multi-volume albums, such as a 2hr movie.

RF

[tacosalad]

Alex,

Sorry I haven't sent email to you--I've got an unfinished draft that describes what I think you need: how to hide the data in track 1 from an audio player. This would work almost perfectly with the disc you described at the top of the thread. "Almost" because it just makes the audio player skip track 1, rather than eliminating it. I thought it unwise to renumber the tracks.

Here's how I did it with a VCD like the one you described (CDDA in track 2, no mpeg "tracks&quot:

1. I used CDRWin to extract a BIN/CUE image from the recorded VCD. (I think there's functioning demo edition available from http://www.goldenhawk.de/ )

2. I edited the CUE sheet so that INDEX 01 of TRACK 01 became INDEX 00. Then I inserted a new INDEX 01 after it so it would be just one frame before INDEX 01 of TRACK 02. (This makes track 1 just 1/75th of a second long, a violation of Red Book, but we're already bending the rules here!) So, if INDEX 01 of TRACK 02 was 02:37:00, I set INDEX 01 of TRACK 01 to 02:36:74.

3. I recorded the new disc using CDRWin. My Philips and Pioneer DVD players accept it just like the original one, supporting all PBC features, menus, and audio tracks. When I put it into an audio player, the disc skips straight to track 2 and plays the audio. Track 1 probably plays for 1/75th of a second, but it's not noticeable.

I also recorded a disc in which track 1 is four seconds long (the Red Book minimum), but I saw no advantage to it. This technique has the same limitations as CD-ROM Ready, as it's still possible to rewind into track 1. And I've heard some audio players won't start playback if the pre-gap (track 1 index 0) is bigger than 180 seconds.

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

tacosalad,

Ok, let me see If I got you right:
This is a project where I have 3 tracks; the first is the vcd project and the other two are RED Audio.
My original *.cue looked like this when I extracted it:

FILE "D:\TEMP3\CDIMAGE.BIN" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
PREGAP 00:02:00
INDEX 01 20:01:00
TRACK 03 AUDIO
INDEX 00 23:37:34
INDEX 01 23:39:34

So, after modifying it, I'm suppose to get have this:

FILE "D:\TEMP3\CDIMAGE.BIN" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
INDEX 00 00:00:00
INDEX 01 20:00:74
TRACK 02 AUDIO
PREGAP 00:02:00
INDEX 01 20:01:00
TRACK 03 AUDIO
INDEX 00 23:37:34
INDEX 01 23:39:34

Is this correct? (Won't it have problems with the pregap of track 02?)

[tacosalad]

That should work at least as well as my sample discs. (They seemed perfectly good.)

The PREGAP statement in TRACK 02 is perfectly fine. (My samples looked like this.) The "PREGAP 00:02:00" statement really means "insert 02 seconds of silence and use as INDEX 00."

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Oh, now I see! This is pretty genious what you came up with. I'm preapering a guide "The ULTIMATE VCD guide", That will sure have a big part in it. There will be alot of credit to you and RF. I'm still working on some gliches...

I have this question: Why does it have to be 1/75? why can't we eliminate track 01 at all,or make it even shorter? How did you reach this spesific number?

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

And one more thing, why can't I make the project with MPEG tracks, and set the {REGAP to each of them, so they all be skipped in the Audio player?

[tacosalad]

1. Why does it have to be 1/75th? Well, I could have chosen a bigger size, but that's the smallest SMPTE increment. In my first test disc I chose four seconds, just to follow the Red Book guideline that tracks should be four seconds, minimum.

2. Why can't we eliminate track 01? Perhaps we could if the tools were customized, but it would doubtless cause problems with the method I used because it would change the numbers of all the existing (and working) CDDA tracks in the TOC. Since the VCD/DVD player could (and probably does) use the TOC to locate the CDDA tracks, this could break all the PBC links to the CDDA audio tracks. Unsure, I just avoided that risk and kept track 1.

3. "Why can't I make the project with MPEG tracks...so they all be skipped in the Audio player?" That's very tempting, but there's a catch: an audio player skips the pre-gap on track 1 only. When it plays from one track to the next, it includes the pre-gap. When you manually skip directly to a track, it skips the pre-gap. Many, many albums use this method to add a pause between tracks when you play a disc straight through but not when you select a track directly.

There are a handful of audio CDs that exploit this wierdness. For example, a Ryko disc back around 1991 had a piece called Birdsongs of the Mesozoic, a takeoff on the Rocky & Bullwinkle theme. If you directly selected the track you'd hear the song, but if you played into it from the previous track you'd also get a thirty-second vocal introduction--and the CD player's time would count backwards! A college friend had a Mike & The Mechanics CD that could be rewound before track 1, which would reveal someone making smart-ass remarks about the album!

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

tacosalad, Hi...

Well, I tyed to do what you did, but I have a slight problem; When I try to burn the edited cue file, my recorder gave me an error message: "Error: 'START DAO RECORDING' Command failed on device 1:1:0 Cuesheet was rejected by the CDROM Recorder'

Are you formiliar with this problem? What recorder do you use? What CDRwin version?

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Oh, and, did you try to add CD-TEXT to the cuesheet. I tryed, but it always give me errors. Can you try on your recorder, and if it works - let me know, ok...

[tacosalad]

Oh, yeah that's another reason I'd tried a 4-second track 1.

Depending on the brand of CD recorder, you might not be able to reduce the length of track 1 below four seconds. HP and Yamaha recorders, for example, will reject such a CUE sheet.

Try the alternate method of making TRACK 01 INDEX 01 four seconds before TRACK 02, instead of just one frame. This delays playback of track 2 by a few seconds, but it should work in the aforementioned recorders (assuming that's what's wrong here). It also poses a small risk that a non-muting audio player might produce loud digital static, although I've only ever seen one (very old) audio player that would do that. (Hint: it would play the original track 1 as loud noise, too.)

If it still won't record using a four-second track length, try the original unmodified CUE sheet just to make sure there's not some basic incompatibility with CDRWin and your recorder. If it doesn't work with the unmodified BIN/CUE, then there's obviously a deeper problem.

No, I didn't try adding CD-TEXT yet because I wasn't feeling quite that ambitious. If I recall right, CD-TEXT occupies two subcode channels that should be available in the audio tracks. (Don't try it with track 1, of course!)

We might not have it all solved yet, but we're making progress. Let me know if you think of any further enhancements in the meantime.

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Well, I can't try the CD-TEXTcause my recorder rejects the CUEsheet
If you try, and it'll work, let me know

What recorder did you use to burn the CUEsheet with one frame track 01?

[tacosalad]

I recorded the single-frame version using a Mitsumi 4804, which is known for its relaxed attitude. This was among the earliest recorders to support 99 minute overburning, simply because the recorder permits almost anything!

I may try some more experiments tonight.

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Again, I tryed and failed!

Do you know how to do it: How to burn a philips toolkit project as a second session on a 99min CD???

There are problems like 99min (overburning) is possible only using Disk-at-once methode (So no multi-session)

Well, thats about it. Do you know how to go pass it?

P.S. What recorder do you advise to buy thisdays? (That will allow me to do "ANYTHING&quot

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Do you happen to know if Ricoh RW7200A can do "ANYTHING"?
I tryed to burn a 1 frame Track 01 on a Ricoh RW7125A, but the CUEsheet was rejected,,,

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

So, were you successfull?

[mvalente]

I'm having problems burning the CDs too.

I created a VCD using the Philips Toolkit, with 2 MPEG files, and a still image for the menu. When I burn the CD, all I have is an audio track. I tried it with Nero, EZCD Creator and WinOnCD, and the result is always the same.
I tried to burn the CD using GEAR too, but it didn't work. It runs the test, but doesn't write the CD.

Hope u guys help me with that!

Thank u!

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

As far as I know GEAR is the only software which support RAW perfectly!

To use GEAR:
Create a file *.gbf (Gear Batch File):

SETCDRPARMS WRITEENABLE TRUE (Sets the writer for actual burning)
WRITECD FILENAME.tlf X 12 (FILENAME=your file name)

than choose from File menu "Run Batch file"


I would like to know HOW did you use EZCD and Nero (How did you burn it)?

[mvalente]

Thank u very much Alex! It worked very well!

About your question, there is an option in the File menu of EZCD and Nero to burn a CD from an image file, but it's not compatible with the image file generated by VCD2TK. I don't know if they only work with their own image file format.

I've read that WinOnCD would work, but I've tried it with version 3.7 with no success.

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Yea, same here. For now the only software that is capable of working with the tracks is GEAR. Did you burn the *.CD with GEAR or did you use splitter first? )to devide the project.cd to tracks first)

[RFontenot]

The VCD2TK image uses Mode 2/Form 1 and Mode 2/Form 2 scrambled sectors. You may want to check and see how WinOnCD 3.7 supports scrambled sectors, if it still does.

RF

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-12 13:13:53, RFontenot wrote:
The VCD2TK image uses Mode 2/Form 1 and Mode 2/Form 2 scrambled sectors. You may want to check and see how WinOnCD 3.7 supports scrambled sectors, if it still does.

RF
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think it supports it at all. Cause when I tryed burning the Tracks (after I have devided them), it still gave me all Audio files...

But, CDRwin supports it (at least I think it does...


P.S. I'm in contact with Robin, he's about to release a new TOCSplit version. It'll contain support for burning the tracks with CDRwin...

[RFontenot]

I've already tested his beta. He's got the audio track bug licked. Few other bugs appeared though. I've also asked him to create a Gear batch file with the writecd command instead of a .TLF file. If he comes through with that, we should be able to skip a bunch of steps and just load the batch file and burn!

RF

[Alex_VCD_Builder]

Correct, though I prefer using CDRwin, Since there much more options and the support for newer recorders. (GEAR no longer exists)

So, If he'll develope a CUE support, thanit's gonna be perfect...


What do you think?