ATI AIW 128 and AVI's 240 width in win 2k

[juan clemente]

Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere, but a search of the forums did not turn anything up.

After moving to Win 2000 professional I have lost the ability to capture anything greater than a 240 width in AVI, regardless of which capture program I use. MPEG works as expected. I am using the ATI recommended 2k drivers along with mmc 7.1, directx 8.0a, the video capture update, etc. I have done two Win 2000 installs to try and get this working.

Is anyone with win 2000 professional and an AIW 128 16 able to do > 240 width AVI captures?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Juan

[tyrotim]

Well, I posted the same question last week on many of the forums and have not figured this out yet.

look for "ATI AIW 128 16meg, Win2k - can't select hi-res ?x240" in this forum.

Here are another couple of forums which I've posted the same sort of thing.
http://www.rageunderground.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo/index.html

So far I've tried re-installing Win2k Pro and all the latest "things", then installing the recommended ati driver, then MMC7.1, then this wdm vfw wrapper and still I can't capture above ???x240.

So if you figure it out I would sure appreciate some help. I'm nearly ready to get rid of the card and buy something else.

Thanks.

[juan clemente]

Thanks for the reply. I too have tried seeking answers for this, off and on, for about 6 months now. If I find anything at all, I'll follow up via email as it seems to be a deep dark secret that ATI does not want anyone to know about.

juan

[patrickm]

first off, it's width X height, so 240 is the vertical dimension.

anyhow, like i explained last week, MMC 7.1 uses the WDM directshow drivers. these drivers cannot capture full-frame AVI. however, you can get the VFWWDM wrapper and simulate VFW (older) drivers, and use a program like virtualdub to get ???x480 AVI.

or a better solution is just to use very high bitrate I-frame MPEG at ???x480 if you want to re-encode. ( <5 Mbit MPEG-1, >5Mbit MPEG-2), I-frame only doesn't take a lot of CPU compared to IBP compression, is frame-accurate for cuts/joins, and is essentially the same scheme as MJPEG.

[tyrotim]

I have tried a view versions of the wrapper. 5.xx or something like that. Doesn't seem to make any difference.

Maybe I'm installing it wrong, or not uninstalling things right.

I've started with a fresh system with Win2k, SP2, DX8, DX8 digital update, latest recommended drivers from ati, and MMC7.1. I'm assuming to install the wrapper you just right click on the .inf file and click install ? I reboot and go into VirtualDub or AVI_IO and the selection box for the video resolution is exactly the same as before.

Well I will try you're suggestion patrickm with the i-frames only mpg1. I would have liked to do huffyuv since I'm trying to get the best VCD possible from tv programs.

thanks for the help.

[Radioman]

Hi

Maybe I'm into the gang as well ?

Just posted this today:
http://network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=70438&messageid=998934485

For Virtual Dub it's impossible to capture at any SVCD resolutions in avi -format.
Then my other problem, I cant even READ the Mpeg2 files created from ATI MMC7.1 at ANY resolution.

Am I bound to mmc6.3 and w98 for analog capture with the ATI AIW 16Mb card ?

[patrickm]

well, the 128 16MB PCI and the 128 Pro 32 AGP use the same set of drivers both in win2k (5.13.1.192) and in win9x (4.12.6292). i'm seeing all resolutions with the wrapper that i found a link to on this site. (yes, you right click and 'install').

when you say you can't "read" the MPEG-2 files, is that including the ATI file player/DVD player? or in virtualdub? vd can't decode MPEG-2 at all. neither can media player without a codec installed. but the ATI bundle should take care of it. install the dvd 4.1 update on MMC 7.1 even if you don't have a dvd player, it's a total update.

when you use win9x, the preferred drivers / method is:
install DX8.0/update
install 4.12.6292 drivers
http://support.ati.com/products/pc/rage128/winme/rage128_winme_drivers_vfw.html
install MMC 6.3 into default dir
install MMC 7.1 into "ATI Multimedia MMC 7.1" (or some other directory than 6.3)
install DVD 4.1 into the MMC 7.1 dir
no wrapper. you have full VFW drivers, plus WDM support for MMC 7.1. MMC 7.1 will _NEVER_ capture ???x480 AVI. only other programs will.

for win2k, install win2k as STANDARD PC, NOT ACPI PC! (you'll share a billion things on 1 irq)
isntall DX8/update
install 5.13.1.192 drivers
install MMC 7.1
install DVD 4.1
install 5.x wrapper

if you have trouble with the wrapper, it may help to put the 3 files in the winnt\system dir and install, but i doubt it. if you can use VD under win2k, the wrapper is installed. it's possible you have a different interface if you have the BT878/BT829 chip instead of the RageTheater (PCI versions can have either), but i think you'd still have full-res under the wrapper. in win9x it's not a problem since VFW is native to the 4.12.6292 drivers. but if you use them, install MMC 6.3 as well even if you don't use it, because i think part of the capture driver was inside it.

[Radioman]

patrickm

First of all thanks for sharing your knowledge.I know you have hanged around in this forum for a while.

I have the AGP 16 mb version of the AIW, without the RageTheater chip.

Well, when I can't read my captured mpeg2 files it means both with ATI's fileplayer and the mediaplayer in w2k. Not anything from the bundle. Yes, I have also installed the DVD software player and have a working DVD -system with a Pioneer DVD -drive. The mediaplayer connects to the net and tries to find a codec to play before it gives up.

The rest i understand and agree with. I'm only dissapointed that I cant' use VirtualDub for higher vertical resolutions. I have to look at the wrapper you mention. But as I can capture in VirtualDub in lower resolutions I maybe allready have it installed ? But what about the vertical resolution then ?

Can you name one single program that I can capture *.avifiles with Huffyuv or Picvideo at the vertical heights you need to make SVCD's (SVCD for PAL = 480x576)in w2k? Certainly not the ATI MMC7.1


_________________
Cheers // Radioman

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Radioman on 2001-08-27 13:58:42 ]</font>

[patrickm]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, when I can't read my captured mpeg2 files it means both with ATI's fileplayer and the mediaplayer in w2k. Not anything from the bundle. Yes, I have also installed the DVD software player and have a working DVD -system with a Pioneer DVD -drive. The mediaplayer connects to the net and tries to find a codec to play before it gives up.

The rest i understand and agree with. I'm only dissapointed that I cant' use VirtualDub for higher vertical resolutions. I have to look at the wrapper you mention. But as I can capture in VirtualDub in lower resolutions I maybe allready have it installed ? But what about the vertical resolution then ?

Can you name one single program that I can capture *.avifiles with Huffyuv or Picvideo at the vertical heights you need to make SVCD's (SVCD for PAL = 480x576)in w2k? Certainly not the ATI MMC7.1
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

well, i don't have the BT8x8 version of the AIW 128, so i really can't tell you how to fix it. like i said, what i've said i can guarantee will work with the rage theater, and supposedly has worked for 16Mb PCI cards before. but make sure you're using the 5.13.1.192 drivers, NOT necessarily the latest recommended ones. i could go on and on suggesting programs to capture with, but they all work for me, incl virtualdub, vidcap32 (from win95), sonic foundry video capture 2.0e (there's a 2.5 out now, you might want to try those, they're WDM based, it may or may not help. http://www.sonicfoundry.com/download )

if your dvd player works with the ATI software, it means you DO have the ATI MPEG-2 codecs installed (they're locked from WMP i think). but that means that whatever you're capturing is defective, not the playback.

but with the 4.12.6292 drivers in win98 you should already be able to do full-res AVI, in MMC 6.3, virtualdub, or whatever. DON'T use the 4.13.7078 drivers, they're WDM only. 6292 will work with either MMC, but 7078 isn't backwards compatible.

http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=51649&forum=2
and a direct link that was there, (i'm not sure if this is the NT/2K kernel code 5.xxx... or not)
http://shopgeo.virtualave.net/wrapper.zip

there's been several other links to versions of the wrapper, i just don't know where they are. possibly try http://support.microsoft.com and search for 'vfw' and 'wdm' there, or 'vfwwdm' which is in the name of one of the key files.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: patrickm on 2001-08-27 14:58:43 ]</font>

[tyrotim]

BTW: the ATI all-In-wonder 128 16meg version I have has the Bt829 chipset.

[Radioman]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-27 14:57:03, patrickm wrote:

But with the 4.12.6292 drivers in win98 you should already be able to do full-res AVI, in MMC 6.3, virtualdub, or whatever. DON'T use the 4.13.7078 drivers, they're WDM only. 6292 will work with either MMC, but 7078 isn't backwards compatible.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

As I said in the SVCD forum of network54, I have no problem at all with w98 mmc6.3 and drivers. It's just that I want to work with the new stable Win2k. Apparently it's not possible to get any performance with current drivers.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
if your dvd player works with the ATI software, it means you DO have the ATI MPEG-2 codecs installed (they're locked from WMP i think). but that means that whatever you're capturing is defective, not the playback.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I did a very briefly test this morning (I'm at work now) I definately can play DVD movies in ATI's DVD Softwareplayer. But not any mpg2 files are playable at all in mediaplayer or the ATI-fileplayer. So not just my captured mpeg2 files is unplayable... Strange.

I tried to "drag & drop" a known working mpg2 file directly in the ATI DVD-player but it won't play it. Instead it starts the ATI fileplayer....

Maybe I should try to install Power DVD which I've had to work very well in w98 ? Some thing must be missing..

[tyrotim]

Just to re-iterate from :
http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=56683&forum=2&7

Well it would seem that this may be a hopeless battle. I do have all the latest drivers and the latest wrapper seems to be working. I can capture with any program, mmc7.1, virtualdub and iuvcr.

From within virtualdub - Am I doing this right? I select "Capture->Preferences" select the capture device "0- Microsoft WDM Capture (Win32)"

Then I select the capture source to be "ATI bt829 capture" and I can still only capture at ???x240 or ???x288....

arg...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tyrotim on 2001-08-28 10:17:43 ]</font>

[Radioman]

To Juan Clemente and Tyrotim

Have you benchmarked your diskwriting capabilitys in w2k ? I have... read on please.

After some more tests and tweaks I have now, as it seems, just one major problem in w2k.
I can't get the DMA enabled on the second disk, just PIO.

I have read and tried most of the tips on this page:
http://www.videoguys.com/Win2K_Tweaks.html

I really don't know what to do to get the DMA enabled for my second drive in w2k.
I have an UDMA33 controller on the mobo (Compac-crap)and it doesn't help to turn on or of the function in the bios setup either. I also tried the tip, on the link above, to hack the registry to get the UDMA working without success.

When I boot to w98 everything is pretty fast. ( Ok.. Ok I don't have any Raid config.. poor old childrens-father)
I get about 10 Mb sustained writing on the old Master systemdisk and 21 Mb on the second slave, new IBM 60gxp, disk. In W2k it only writes 4.5mb sustained which offcourse isn't enough for higher resolutions then vcd. It doesn't matter if it writes to a FAT32 or an NTFS partition.

Has anyone any experince in the DMA disk matters ?

patrickm

I'm sorry but my problem about the disability to play mpeg2 files have disappeared, without me having installed anything.. !? Would have been nice to know exactly what have happened.
I have only done some of the tweaks mentioned on the link above.
So maybe I "just" have the DMA problem left ? :\

[patrickm]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>

I get about 10 Mb sustained writing on the old Master systemdisk and 21 Mb on the second slave, new IBM 60gxp, disk. In W2k it only writes 4.5mb sustained which offcourse isn't enough for higher resolutions then vcd. It doesn't matter if it writes to a FAT32 or an NTFS partition.

Has anyone any experince in the DMA disk matters ?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

in win2k, DMA is in a different place in device manager. it's under IDE/ATAPI controllers, and usually under the primary and secondary channels. make sure service pack 2 is installed, (shouldn't matter for DMA33 anyway), and this site has some tips http://win2000tips.home.att.net

you'll also get better performance if you make your capture drive the secondary master instead of the primary slave. the channels are multitasking, master/slave is not. but since you can get good speed under win98, that's not your biggest problem.

one other thing- if you have a VIA motherboard, are you HDD's listed as SCSI by win2k? (device manager/disks) if they are revert the IDE controller back to the original MS drivers instead of VIA's, and that should help. my drives worked ok, but my burner wouldn't write after i installed the 4-in-1 pack.

[Radioman]

Patrickm

I gave up on w2k yesterday. I will probably try again in the future with another HDD configuration and see if the OS will enable DMA on both disks.

The problem is that I have a well working 98 with the Ch 0 master primary as boot C: and slave primary as second partition D: for software(The faster drive as slave) next partion(s) in a row comes from extended master until there is no more. The last one(s) is comeing from the extended from the slave.
I had a NTFS boot partition on the master extended and used the same D: FAT 32 partition on the slave for software as with 98. Then I had a large NTFS partition on the slave as my last capture partition.

(The DVD and CDRW is locked at H: and I. Primary/slave on ch 1)

As you understand it's a bit of a trick to know which letter your partition will have when you fiddle around the disks between the two IDE channels and also if you chose to partition your HD as primary and extended to be able to boot from the drive if you switch around in the future.

If I would start with a new installation from the beginning I have more options and it would be easier to test these things before I install all my software.

From now on there will be win98 and FAT32 all the way. Do you really think I would get any noticable faster captures by using both cannels ? One for the system and one for the capture ?
Do you know if the second drives first partition D: will remain as D: if I move the disk from Ch0 slave to ch1 master ?
Maybe I should try again with w2k There is a chance that w2k will give me DMA when the disk is master on ch 1 .... or ?

[Radioman]

Oh, sorry patrickm

I have ni VIA and w2k can only see IDE drives which is correct. And there wasn't anything new I haven't allready tested out on your tiplink above. A good link anyway.