Has anyone swapped out an Apex 500W Rom drive lately?

[homerpez]

If so, I am definitely interested in some advice. If you'd like to "cut to the chase", skip down.

I'm now on my 2nd Apex 500W unit, and I have had the same problem on both of them. (One month into the life of the first unit, 2 days into the life of the 2nd). Basically it has trouble reading a certain block, then you see a spatter of macroblocks, then it continues. Always on the same portions of a movie (clean, new discs), and it's repeatable. These are all using TMPGEnc to encode, bbMPEG to remux. Should be the most playable of all formats.

Some people blame the burn speed for this, but that's really only part of the problem. See, all the VCD's in question play PERFECTLY on my PC-DVD Rom unit! So, it's not really the BURN that failed, but the READ!

CUTTING TO THE CHASE: I've seen the guide on replacing the Apex 500W drives with something else, but I'd like some insight by someone who's actually done this. Which drive is best to use? Or will anything do? What order do I need to do things in (like flashing the ROM drive's bios, or whatever)... any and all advice would be appreciated here!

Thanks!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-19 20:28:19 ]</font>

[Iview]

I swapped the drive in my DVD player, not an Apex though, it's a Sampo, but it should be similar. Actually it is very easy, just disconnect and reconnect the data and power cable as you would when installing a drive in your computer. All you have to do is to find a DVD drive, preferably a RPC-1 (all region) and a slower drive, 8x or under (noisy with higher speed drive).
The trickier thing is to match the tray cover to the faceplate of the DVD player.

[homerpez]

I've been reading a little on the process... one person used a Toshiba 6x drive... maybe it's all-region? Man, am I ever tempted to use my Pioneer 6x from my PC to try it out... but I'll probably opt for buying a new 6-8x drive for this...

What kind of methods should I use to mount it? I guess this is the worst problem to content with, this guy used rubber feet, but I want something... more durable.

Also, do you need to do any BIOS flashing of the drive, or is it just plug-and-play? Thanks...

[SiNXation]

Homerpez, if its a VCD it is both a burn and read fail. Just becuase you PC read the cd with no problem doesnt mean the burned good. I have tons of movies that perform like that. Its all in the burn. Some I have re-burn with my new burner and it plays flawlessly. Apex 500a-w lasers are very weak so all burns have to have really good impression on the cd. PC drives have stronger lasers

I have switch the drive before in the player for other people but I rather just reburn the movies on a better burner then to buy a new drive and swap them out.

[homerpez]

Well, this is kind of my point (I think)...

Since the Apex drive is so !@#$% awful (and they show signs that they are getting worse as I use them), then I don't see why I should be messing around trying to burn something over and over again until it's got deep enough "pits" for the cheesy Apex player!... As it is, I have to burn CD's at work, so it's a hassle...

I can either lower my CD's to the standards of a cheap Apex player, or I can simply remove the offending part and replace it with something more currently standard and effective (a PC-DVD-Rom which will play everything correctly).

I think it just makes more sense. After all, I could have the newest, best-working CD-R's on the planet, and a brand new burner... and the cheap Apex ROM unit will probably still not work.

[homerpez]

Back on topic... just asking again if anyone has done this, specifically with the 500W?

The best guide I can find, is done with a 600A. Just how similarly are these built?

I already notice one difference between them... the 600A seems to have the tray plate (that says "DVD" on the front) attached to the tray as it comes out, the 500W has a flop-down plate (when the tray comes out, it pushes the "DVD" black door out of the way)... will this be a problem?

[Kdiddy]

I dont know Homer..I real interested in this too...think I may pick up both tommorrow...and carefully try them out...I looked at the 500w today in Walmart..didnt appear to hame a tamper tape...so I can open it up & look...and see whats inside, if not..then maybe the 660 from Circuit City...sooo open yours up and see b4 I do..LOL

[Kdiddy]

Ok man...just read on several pages that the 500w DOES have an IDE drive in it...think IM gonna go get it, and see..wish me luck

[homerpez]

May the force be with us. Live long and prosper. And all that.

[Type-E]

What brand of DVD roms are you guys swapping in?

[Iview]

hi guys,
Here is a DVD drive listing for you.
http://perso.club-internet.fr/farzeno/firmware/dvd/page0.htm
You can pick a drive from the list, some are RPC-1 (regoin free), most are RPC-2 (region locked) but can be changed to RPC-1 with a firmware flash, and some are RPC-2 permanently locked and cannot be changed.
And here is the page for firmware download.
http://perso.club-internet.fr/farzeno/firmware/
It is easier if you can find a RPC-1 drive, save you an extra step and the dangerous work of flashing the drive (if not done right will kill the drive). Like I said before slower drive usually works better, but harder to find. Happy shopping!!!

[homerpez]

DANG. This adds a new problem. Or does it?

I planned on using a Toshiba 6x DVD-rom, the SD-M1222 model, which I'm still in the process of getting. It says it's an RPC-2.

I don't care about region-free at all, since the Apex unit itself won't be (I'm fine since I'm mainly playing my VCD's anyway, and Region-1 DVD's). So does this mean I won't have to flash the drive so long as I don't want region-free?

The other option I have is a Pioneer (DVD-113 I think) sitting in my PC right now. I've been thinking of using this one, if it fits the Apex, just because I'm sick of waiting for the Toshiba This one is a RPC-1, so I guess fewer worries there? Though I think Toshiba might have a better chance only because they tend to make parts for other brands of electronics, so they might be more used to compatability issues than Pioneer (but what do I know).

Thanks for that bit of info, appreciate all the help I can get!

[Kdiddy]

Well as the saying goes...I have some good news & some bad news:

The good news is, yes there is an IDE drive inside..and YES it is quite easy to exchange out. However there is a DVD-ROM flash out that improves the drive somewhat.

The bad news for me is....no miniDVD capability , also, I notice many blips, specs, what have you during playback of just about everything...VCD, SVCD, DVD.....also didnt like not having a optical out for digital...which would have meant me having to buy a coaxial digital cable...

so my conclusion...this is a decent starter MP3,DVD,SVCD,VCD player for a newb....once you get over you newbieness....move on to something better

[Type-E]

does the dvd-rom unit hasto have Spdif out?

[Type-E]

is coaxial cable another composite cable? or it is a special one? To me, the hole look the same as other composite cable hole

[Kdiddy]

No I coaxial digital cable is different than a regular RCA composite cable..

O and next time, edit ya post like this instead of making a new one...some mods get pretty anal about that kind of thing...no the DVD-rom doesnt have to have anything..there is already an IDE cable & power connector in the unit...its just a straight swap

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kdiddy on 2001-08-22 05:39:30 ]</font>

[Type-E]

Another question for me would me, if 500W is not region free and I swap a region free dvd-rom in, would it be region free afterwards?

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-22 08:17:34, Type-E wrote:
Another question for me would me, if 500W is not region free and I swap a region free dvd-rom in, would it be region free afterwards?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think so. The programming on the board I think contols this too, if I'm not mistaken (I think both would have to be to work).

Kdiddy, question... What drive model did your use to replace it? This could be a difference... if you just used a cheap generic drive with it, you may not be having any improvement on the read capability. If you swap to a better-quality brand or model (like Toshiba), then you can reap benefits of the new drive that are different from the old one... for instance, Toshiba's and Pioneer's generally have 2-laser pickup, which helps with reading CD-R's and CD-RW's. The original Apex drive from Korea, I'm sure, has only one.

[Kdiddy]

naw man...I used one that deifinitely top notch, reads the disk fine...if you are referring to the miniDVD thing, cuz it reads in the PC (with he same DVD-rom) as a DVD,...but with the same DVD-rom in the unit it doesnt...the chip is just not capable, done extensive reading that I wish I had found BEFORE hand, LOL....if you are referring to the blips, specs, & lower quality....then same is true as above....on my PC (with the same DVD-rom) & Panasonic r31K....DVDs & VCDs both play spec & glitter free..however, when I stick it in the Apex unit (again using common DVD-rom) its "spec-city"....thus the only common factor difference is the mpeg-decoder.....o well their may be light at the end of the tunnel after all....found out that the GE1101P IS, I repeat IS, flashable to miniDVD and my Wal-Mart had a few...so think Im gonnna try it today.....and another disappoint about the 500w is that it wasnt CDR flashable...you had to manually replace an IC chip on the decoder in order to flash it.

[homerpez]

hmm... we seem to have different goals in mind... but here's an update for everyone...

I went ahead and swapped out the Apex rom drive for my Pioneer DVD-113 PC-DVD ROm drive. It WORKED! However, it didn't work any better than the Apex one did!

I'm perplexed, now I need more advice than ever. (And maybe I should retract my E-Bay bid on the Toshiba drive)?

On the same disc, the movie reads nicely on the Pioneer drive when connected to the PC, but connected to the Apex, it produced the exact same defects as the Apex did, in the exact same spots on the disc!

I'm now narrowing it down to the following problems. Hopefully someone here knows the correct answer:

A) Bad burn to disc, bad burner, or burner needs a lens cleaning. Or I have to burn at 1x speed. Are Plextor BurnProof drives any good?

B) Re-multiplex using bbMPEG is corrupting the stream. Maybe coincidence, but this particular effect happened only after I started using bbMPEG to remux, to prevent synch drift. Does TMPGEnc's re-multiplex function work as well, or should I expect more of the same from that too?

C) Maybe NERO? I see no reason why it should be, as it worked on videos made with TMPGenc all this time, why would it not work? Unless it didn't like my bbMPEG remuxes?

D) The only last thing I can think of is the use of "Use padding if Below MIN bitrate" on TMPGEnc. Recent encodes use it at 300 bitrate MIN, earlier ones don't. This should make things better if anything, but who knows. I know if it throttles too much, and is not remuxed by something, I get synch drift.

I've more or less ruled out the Apex hardware itself (this does not happen on every disc, all use about the same settings for encode). I've also ruled out the CD-R's I'm using, since they have been the same throughout (Imation 80 minute CD-R).

What's the most likely cause for this? Help!

[Kdiddy]

Honestly man...I would say the Apex, just cuz it is a cheap player, and since it does it on both drives...it might be the decoder prob...I believe that was the main reason behind mine...but who knows...if you think its the disc..try another one??, I doubt it is Nero...also, why do you use bbmpeg to remux??..whats wrong with the mpg that comes out of TMPG??....i just fishing here man...I dont really have a clue

[homerpez]

The thing wrong with just using what TMPGEnc puts out, is that you are almost assures to have "synch drift" occur (the video will have a motion sputter, slow waaay down, while audio continues). It's generally accepted that you should demux/remux if it does this. I was constantly told that you should use bbMPEG to do this, yet some said if you redo it with TMPGEnc, it will achieve the same effect.

The more I think about it, I believe this may be my main problem! Here's why:

I encoded some Monty Python episodes from interlaced DVD source to 29.97 frames/sec VCD (2-pass, 300 MIN with padding, 1050 AVG, and 2350 MAX). When I demuxed, then tried to remux them with bbMPEG, it refused to do it and stopped after it displays info on each track. So, I had to burn as-is (straight from TMPGEnc).

On this disc, I experienced absolutely no macroblocks or atrifacts at all, though it was on the same discs and burned full-speed on the same burner as the rest (8x Yamaha). BUT, it did have synch-drift! Since this is the same Apex unit, it's probably not the decoder (though it may be in combo with bbMPEG product). So I remuxed using TMPGEnc this time, it seemed to work, and I'm re-burning it.

On the discs which have this macroblock splatter blip effect thingy ... They're burned on the same burner, same discs, but no synch drift. And I get blips in the video!

I can't win!

I hope TMPGEnc's remux solves both my problems. If not, then I think I'm stuck (I haven't heard of any other programs out there that can remultiplex VBR MPEG-1 streams properly)... {sigh}...

[next]

Homer -

I had occasional 'glitches' with both of my Apex players (660-703). I tried everything to avoid them. Tried three different burners at varying speeds. A bunch of different media. I burned with Nero, WinonCD, Adeptec, Fireburner, created bin/cue files, etc. Still the same glitches. I tried hardware adjustments with my sound buffer settings, hardware acceleration settings, etc. Even upgraded my CPU to a 1.2 Athlon. Still the same "glithces". All in the exact places as a matter of fact. The process didn't matter.

I have mentioned in previous posts that these 'glitches' showed up when played on a number of players - again all at the exact same places. The only one that did not show the 'glitches' was the Pioneer 343. I was actually searching for a player that would solve this problem. The 343 is a great player but has other limitations that I don't like.

My solution was the following:

MPEG2

Using Mpeg2 vs Mpeg1 has cleared everything up on both of my players. It's as simple as that. Not a single 'glitch' since the change. Period - end of story.

Try encoding a test file with Mpeg2. It may work on your 500W 'glitch' free. And save you ALOT of time.

"Glitches' are a thing of the past for me. I don't even think of them anymore. And my captures are real time mpeg2 which is very fast. No encoding after the capture.

[homerpez]

Well, I don't know if that's an option for me, as I always try to translate one DVD (or VHS) film to one CD, no exceptions. MPEG-1 is the only choice for me. Even if I used a Sefy SxVCD template, and at VCD res, I'd still get a crappier picture than MPEG-1 at the bitrates I have to use.

Did you try the remultiplexing? I ask because I honestly had no problems whatever on most of my movies unsing TMPGEnc to encode (with this read glitch thing). Only the synch drift problem. There was another type of read error on my first unit, but this was on CD's with labels on them (this was the problem of the cheap ROM drive alone).

When I started using bbMPEG, synch drift disappeared, but these glitches apeared. Unfortunately I have yet to have a verdict on whether TMPGEnc's multiplexer will solve both problems (fixing synch drift while not creating glitches). I worry though... TMPGEnc often gives me that blasted "underflow" error, which I don't like seeing.

But I'm almost 100% positive this whole thing is because bbMPEG is making streams that the Apex's hate!

Any better multiplexers out there for VBR?

P.S. - I still plan on replacing my ROM drive with the Toshiba if I can. This will at least give me a sturdy drive, vs. the cheap crap inside the Apex. And it IS CHEAP. One less thing to worry about. Just have to figure out have to mount the !@#$% thing...

[homerpez]

Just tried a TMPGEnc multiplex. Just as I thought, it doesn't produce the glitch effect, but it doesn't make the synch drift do away either. {sigh}

I desperately need me a good program that will fix my synch drift problems, but not making glitches in the process. Any such animal?

[Kdiddy]

Are you sure the sync drifts..or does it not start out synced???...the only thing I can tell you to try is using the source range option to correct your audio start-up ...but Ill assume you have done that & shut-up now

I fear my miniDVD hopes are dwindling...dont think the GE dVD-rom can spin the disk fast enough..and its not a straight replaceable like the Apex models...and the siister Apex model I can not find...

[homerpez]

Seems we're both struggling! Maybe in a few months, some company somehwhere will want to be ultra-cool, and offer miniDVD support on all thier drives!

ON my "Synch drift", I guess you'd have to be there to see it. It plays fine for a while, but sometimes the video will suddenly speedup or slowdown, randomly, while audio continues. It genreally happens the sample places on the movie, but never the EXACT place twice, if that makes sense. I guess the only way to fix is remuxing, but bbMPEG seems to cause the glitch effect.

[alaric]

The "Synch drift" problem you are describing is I believe a player problem not an encoding problem. I have 2 Apex players: a 500 (not 500W) and a 703. The 500 displays the same problem of "Synch drift" that you have been describing, and if I rewind to before the spot it just happened it will play perfectly. with the same disc in the 703 I can play the movie from start to finish with no problems. I was hoping to hear that the new drive had fixed you problems and them follow you lead with my player.

Have you tried the disc that was not remultiplexed on the apex with the Pioneer DVD drive installed? any change in behavior?

I do not remultiplexed my mpegs.


Richard

[homerpez]

I did try the Pioneer drive with a glitchy disc, it was actually a little worse (maybe it was able to read more error information)!

But I think this glitch is not cause solely by the Apex decoder, but the combination of the Apex and the bbMPEG remuxing. The Apex just doesn't like it!

I suppose I could let this go, after all, the non-muxed do seem to go back in synch after a second or two, but it's almost unwatchable for those two or three seconds!

Maybe some setting I'm doing wrong with bbMPEG to make things get corrupted? I hope not, but I seem to be the only person in the WORLD with this glitch problem right now...

Is MPEG-2 a solution? well, I'm guessing no, since I see hundreds of problems people have on this site are SVCD-related... plus no 1 movie per 1 CD again...

I'm going for broke. Someone, anyone, if you have ever made a working VBR MPEG-1 VCD, and multiplexed it using bbMPEG... PLEASE POST YOUR SETTINGS FOR IT!

Here are mine. I am going insane here...

"VCD" Button selected for stream type
VBR CHECKED
Pad VCD audio CHECKED
Write Program End code CHECKED
Align sequence headers CHECKED
MUX RATE: I've tried "0" (for auto) and I've tried "32767" (the MAX allowed for this), and both produce this glitch.
Everything else default...

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!?!?!?!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-24 09:49:23 ]</font>