SVCD 1 hr.

[0028]

Can I put SVCD 1 hr. in CD-R 700 Mb . If I can ... What is the best way and how to do
Thank you

[GUTB]

Yes. The quality would be hideously bad, however.

[markums2k]

You could if you wanted to. However, you'd have to drop the bitrates, and it probably won't look too hot.

If you're trying to get better quality than VCD, SVCD isn't the only alternative. You may wanna check out www.kvcd.net and see if your target players are compatible with Kwag's templates. Lots of those VCDs templates will blow away standard SVCD and look almost as good as DVD. I think there's a 704x480 template that allows approx. 60 minutes per CD.

[GUTB]

No, these VCD templates are only high-quality to those who are blind, and fundimentally ignorant to how MPEG works. Only people who think video compression is magical can believe in that nonsense.

[markums2k]

Oh, I see the light now. Thank you for correcting me. Please disregard my comments. GUTB's post is obviously more helpful than mine. Sorry.

[snowmoon]

The answer is in the middle.

I have often put 60 minutes of low action video on one disk easy. Personally going that low on the bitrate would force me to use either a) letterboxed video or b) CVD full screen video. I was doing a comedy routine to disc and it was 65 minutes long. I used CCE multipass encoding at 352x480 rez, although today I would have used the one pass encoding and the estimation teqnique that was developed over at kvcd.

Many of the tricks that make www.kvcd.net templates work so well can be equally applied to standard SVCD and CVD to improve compression without that much of a sacrifice in terms of quality.

I recommend you read a few of the threads over there and make up your own mind on how the templates look.

[hwoodwar]

I would suggest trying CVD. Before you encode try a short test CVD on your DVD player to make sure it plays properly first.

The way I setup a CVD is:

1. Load Kwag's SKVCD template into TMPGenc (can download at: http://www.kvcd.net/dvd-models.html)

2. Start the Project Wizard and select the template

3. Browse to/select your AVI file

4. Clisk on "Other Settings" on the Filter Settings page

5. Change Motion Search Precision to High or Highest Quality

6. Change Rate Mode Control to 2-Pass VBR

7. Rate Mode Control settings try minimum 1000, average about 2000 and maximum 3600 to 4500 (you may have to play with testing the maximum as far as whatever your DVD player can handle it)

8. On the Bitrate setting page select CDR 80min VCD/SVCD
Note your 700mb (mode 1) CD actually holds 800mb mode 2 which is used to burn VCD's and SVCD's.

9. Now keeping an eye on the bar graph at the bottom of the page, adjust the average video bitrate until the bar graph shows 80min or slightly under.

10. Finish out the wizard and let it start encoding.

11. I then use VCDEasy to burn, selecting SVCD 1.0 but turning off MPEG compliance checks.

With the above procedures I usually encode 45 to 50 minutes (TV shows without commercials) but have encoded up to 62 minutes. The quality seems to be primarily dependent on:

1. Quality of the original video or capture (I transfer VHS tapes to CVD and CVD's made from pre-recorded, primarily light-scened tapes, end up looking good to excellant)

2. Wether the video primarily has "light" scenes (good) or "dark" scenes (not so good)

3. Wether the video primarily has "slow to medium motion" (good) or fast motion (satisfactory)


I hope some of this helps.

[paulgab]

Why use 700MB CDRs while CDR-90 and CDR-99 are readily available on the market at negligible price difference. You can use Nero to overburn and fit a little more than 1 hour of CVDs at a practical data rate setting. I'm doing CVDs and I'm getting like 1hr15mins on a CDR-99 @ 1950kbps (good for home videos!). You can squeeze more but you have to lower your data rate, compromising the quality.

[fantomlord]

The quality you'll see for that long of an SVCD on 1 disc depends on the material. I just did a 1 disc SVCD of the 1931 black and white version of Frankenstein w/CCE multipass, w/average bitrate at 1321, and the results were excellent. so...which route to go really depends on your material--although, CVD is a really good place to start.

[snowmoon]

fantomlord:

Multipass is dead. With the avisynth prediciton model it's now possible to within 5% estimate the size of a single pass encode. I find that at extremely low bitrates it's output is more appealing that the multipass encoding. I believe it's because it really allows the bitrate to fluctuate.

Encoding B&W gives you ~20% bitrate advantage over a color movie.

[energy80s]

Why use 700MB CDRs while CDR-90 and CDR-99 are readily available on the market at negligible price difference.

The problem with these discs are that very few CD-Roms actually recognise them! I have a few 99min CD-R's that absoutely nothing will see! And 830mb discs that won't even accept an 805mb overburn without corruption!

[fantomlord]

fantomlord:

Multipass is dead. With the avisynth prediciton model it's now possible to within 5% estimate the size of a single pass encode. I find that at extremely low bitrates it's output is more appealing that the multipass encoding. I believe it's because it really allows the bitrate to fluctuate.

Encoding B&W gives you ~20% bitrate advantage over a color movie.

I'm not familiar w/the avisynth prediction model...that last encode I did was the first one in months...as far as black and white giving a 20% advantage--I realize that, I mentioned it to help illustrate how the material you're encoding has a big impact on what your best course of action would be.
would you mind showing a link for info on the avisynth prediction model?
Thanks

[snowmoon]

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=90d32974461d0a5dc322f2c010639b8b

They are working on .avs scripts and utilities to make it even easier.

Basicly using the mpeg2dec.dll plugin adds a function SelectRangeEvery to make a short "sample" of the entire movie. You encode this using a variety of one pass setting until your sample is the correct size based on your media size, movie length , and audio size. You then use those same settings for the entire movie and it comes out within a few percentage points.

It really does work, and the methods can easly be applied to CCE as well.

[paulgab]

The problem with these discs are that very few CD-Roms actually recognise them! I have a few 99min CD-R's that absoutely nothing will see! And 830mb discs that won't even accept an 805mb overburn without corruption!

Well it works great for me. Never had a problem with it. I can overburn 970MB file size into a 870MB CD-R with Nero and plays flawlessly in my player

There was an article about these over-sized CDs that says almost all CD ROMs can recognize them. Exceptions are those that are bought few years back. It even includes steps how to overburn them. Forgot the site..

[kwag]

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=90d32974461d0a5dc322f2c01063 9b8b

They are working on .avs scripts and utilities to make it even easier.

Basicly using the mpeg2dec.dll plugin adds a function SelectRangeEvery to make a short "sample" of the entire movie. You encode this using a variety of one pass setting until your sample is the correct size based on your media size, movie length , and audio size. You then use those same settings for the entire movie and it comes out within a few percentage points.

It really does work, and the methods can easly be applied to CCE as well.

Thanks snowmoon,

New version just released: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1737

-kwag

[fantomlord]

kwag and snowmoon:
thanks to both of you for the info...I do remember reading about that method now...it will come in handy in the future, I'm sure.

[bbb]

Multipass is dead ... I believe it's because it really allows the bitrate to fluctuate.

No, not for people with players that stick to the strict standards. CQ doesn't strictly narrow the bitrate range and can cause eratic peaks that cause blocks, distorted video, audio/video stutter on Pioneers. Whereas using Multipass has the benefit of creating a buffered minimum and maximum bitrate that creates a more stable bitrate range for Pioneers which are sensitive to low bitrates and high bitrates.

In fact, many Pioneers that I've used have problems with Kwag's nonstandards (e.g., using VBR video with MPEG1 creates 30 second temporary sound lag).

People using Chinese players with DVDROM drives may not notice a problem, nor would computer users. But, nonstandard settings do affect players that rely on the strict VCD/SVCD standards such as Pioneer players. Not to mention the fact that those putting home movies/weddings on these nonstandards would very likely meet incompatibility problems when playing these discs on their friends and relatives dvd players.

This high risk of incompatibility should be made known to those thinking about messing around with nonstandards (wierd resolutions, uncontrolled high bitrates, VBR on a VCD, long GOPs), unless of course you never intend to share your videos with friends and family.

[snowmoon]

BBB:

I'm not advocating his templates. Much of kvcd's work can help everyone if you just open your eyes. I do not advocate unusual resolutions or basterdizations of standards, but much of the work he has done is equally applicable to standard based encoding.

If your encoder does not create bitrate limited encodes with single pass then I suggest you need another. The problems you are describing are older problems with TMPGenc and no longer applicable, I've even seen older copeis of TMPGenc have trouble with multi-pass and keeping the bitrate down on complex scenes.

I use a pioneer DV-333 and a JVC XV-SA900BK both are phsically limited to 2x speeds for svcd and I have yet to have a problem using these techniques to improve my SVCD, CVD, or DVD recording.