Editing files captured with DVC II

[iparout]

Hi there all,

I'm thinking of buying the Dazzle DVC II capture card but I want to clarify something first. This card captures only in MPEG and should be excellent for capturing videos from a VCR that don't need editing afterwards (e.g. tapes rented from the video-club).

My concern is this :

I also want to capture movies from the TV, but those movies usually have commercials scrolling across the top or bottom of the screen which I want to remove after capturing the movie. The movies also have the TV-channel logo which I will also want to remove afterwards.

Can the files that are created by DVC II, be edited like mentioned above? Can you please suggest some solutions as this problem (MPEG files few post-editing capabilities)seems to be the only drawback of the DVC II ?

Thx in advance.

P.S : The videos will be burnt to VCD or DVD afterwards.

[AndrewDV]

Hi,

Editing with DVCII's MPEG files is primarily done with MovieStar. It is a very basic editor that has a few glitches in it. However, it is good for simple dumps to VCD/SVCD.

Editing commercials out can be done with MovieStar. If the TV logo you are mentioning is a watermark (overlay on top of video), it can not remove it. Just a FYI, there is a AVI filter that can be used in VirtualDub which removes TV watermarks.

Some users have had limited success using the files directly with another editor. In general, to use an editor other than MovieStar requires conversion to AVI (using DVD2AVI) or other preprocessing (GOP correction, mux/demux, etc). It works, but can be a pain.

You should really check out the DVCII forum:
http://stop.at/dazzle2

You'll find a large user group there that can help answer your questions about the DVCII. Some are happy, some are not. It's a hit or miss product.

Also, take a look at this:
http://www.lmrgroup.com/ke3ht/dvc-ii-svcd.html

That has some good info on getting higher quality files with the DVCII.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AndrewDV on 2001-08-17 04:47:58 ]</font>

[aldus4]

I would totally agree with AndrewDV. However I find just cutting out commercials is done quicker with TMPGEnc. I have no problems with sync or anything else.

[iparout]

Well, looks like the DVC II is not suitable for my needs because of the little editing capabilities the MPEG format offers.

As you have read in my first post, in some cases I will want to capture straight to SVCD or DVD and then burn with Nero, without any editing at all (copy VHS tapes).

In some other cases (capture TV progs) I will need to capture in a more editable format (AVI/DV), edit the video and then software-encode to SVCD and burn with Nero.

1)According to all the above, which card do you think is suitable for me ?

2) Can I edit the DV videos with Premiere, VirtualDub ? Is the DV format as editable as AVI ?

3) What do you suggest : an MPEG-2 - AVI capture card OR an MPEG-2 - DV card ?

Thx in advance.

P.S. : Finding the suitable capture card is becoming a real pain. I've been searching for more than a week now !!!

P.S 2 : Is the DV500+ suitable for me ?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: iparout on 2001-08-18 02:57:00 ]</font>

[SHS]

DV500+ has no MPEG hardware

[AndrewDV]

iparout,

Don't get too frustrated with searching. There is NO perfect solution. Looking for more than one week is actually normal. Always remember this rule:

"Good, Fast, Cheap; you only get to pick two"

Ex: If you want good and fast, it is not going to be cheap.

Anyway, my advice is to always start off simple and work up from there. Sometimes the simpliest solution is always the best. In your case, it sounds like you do not have a lot of hard drive space or processor power. Considering that, you can either upgarde your system or get some capture device that has a lot of hardware power to it.

Upgrading your system is a nice option for advanced users. Getting bigger storage, more memory, and a powerful processor helps the entire production process all around. The drawback to this is that you need to really understand what you want.

On the flip side, getting a capture with hardware assist is great for getting your feet wet. However, the benefit of hardware assist is also a drawback as you want to do more advanced projects.

I'm not sure if you can get a hold of a Matrox Marvel G400-TV card, but it is great for beginners to intermediate (even approaches advanced concepts when you know what this card can do). The captures are very high quality and the on board processor can be used during editing (vs capture only). Also, nothing has yet to compare to its TV Out support. The drawback of this card is that Matrox no longer supports it directly. However, the Matrox User group provides excellent support. In fact, you find that the members of the Matrox support group post there as well.

The DVCII card is another good option to start off. It has some nice features for the beginner. You are already aware of its drawbacks, so that is not needed to explain.

Keep in mind that whatever you purchase, make sure you can return it for a full refund. Again, there is NO perfect solution. Get something within your range and kick the tires out. If it works for you, great! If it doesn't, then ditch it and try again keeping your experience in mind.

[iparout]

Andrew, you rock man. I had never read the reviews of the Matrox Marvel G400 and had never thought of the potentials of this card. I think that AVI capturing would be the most suitable for my needs.

1) I would be grateful if you or someone else could please point out any drawbacks that this card may have.

2) How about the 2 GB file-limit and the Macrovision copyright protection ? Can they be bypassed ?

Perhaps the file limit doesn't exist in Win2000 but G400 has many problems with Win2000.

3) Does Marvel G400 support third party software for capturin (e.g. VirtualDub, Premier e.t.c) or it only uses the Matrox software ?
BTW, why not the G450 card ?

I've got a SCSI 20 GB HDD, a 10 GB EIDE HDD (winME installed here), P III 450 MHz O/C to 506 MHz and Viper V770 (which I'm going to sell If I buy the G400)

Thx in advance Andrew and all of you who helped me. I think I'm closer than ever to buying my new card !!!

P.S. The G450 is cheaper than the older G400 ? How come ?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: iparout on 2001-08-19 02:26:11 ]</font>

[Freddie100]

The Marvel G400 is hardware capture and the G450 is software capture. If you are going to run win2000 then you only will get software capture with the G400. If you want AVI then it's a good card and is supported by Virtualdub. If you want Mpeg, forget it. Got rid of mine and went with the Dazzle II and now I am happy.

[iparout]

How about my other questions ? (see above) Will someone be kind enough to answer ?

Thx guys. This forum is becoming a goldmine.

BTW, I want AVI capture.

[AndrewDV]

Hi,

There is a fantastic forum for Matrox users. The group is composed of a lot of experienced folks. You can find it at:

http://forums.matroxusers.com

Go to the video editing section and ask away.

Let me give you quick answers to the questions:

1-Matrox no longer supports the hardware capture. No big deal considering the huge user group that does support it. In fact, that group figured out how to implement the hardware capture under Win2K. On top of that, a contigent of users are implementing it under Linux.

2-AVI_IO, AVI_IO, AVI_IO
Use this for many setups. It not only captures seamlessly (2/4GB under Win98, unlimitted in Win2K), but it plays back segmented files seamlessly. Here is the link:

http://www.nct.ch/multimedia/avi_io/

3-You can use many tools. Let me repeat my favorite capture tool, AVI_IO. My favorite editing tool is Ulead MediaStudio Pro.

Finally, the G400-TV is more expensive than the G450-eTV because it has hardware assist for captures.

Again, go to the Matrox Users' Forums. Ask for the 'Doctor.' Also, you can talk to Sefy on this forum for help. He is a big G400-TV user.

BTW, MPEGs re-encoded from the MJPEG hardware captures look very good. Having the hardware boost the signal gives a nice look. Again, ask around at the MURC forums (and Sefy). There are many many insider tricks to tweaking this hardware to the max.

[iparout]

1) Can Marvel G400 capture in HuffYuv codec or Uncompressed (raw) AVI ?

2) Is Huffy better than MJPEG in quality when using the Marvel G400 ? Generally, which is the best quality codec for capturing video that will be encoded to SVCD (MPEG-1) or DVD (MPEG-2) ?

BTW, thx for the URL to the Matrow users forum Andrew.

P.S : What's YUY ? Is it better in quality than Huffy or MJPEG ?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: iparout on 2001-08-19 08:37:18 ]</font>

[AndrewDV]

The G400-TV (as well as the G200 and G450-eTV) can capture using Huffyuv. The user forum (and website: http://www.matroxusers.com) can help with that one. This is done through YUY2.

YUY and its variations are not the same as Huffyuv and MJPEG. All capture devices must use a form of YUV (ex: YUY2). It is a signal stanard (Chroma Red, etc.). Once the signal is captured, it goes through a codec (compressor/decompressor or aka coder/decoder) into a container files (ex: .AVI, .ASF, .MPG, etc). Huffyuv, MJPEG, and MPEG are all forms of codecs.

Is Huffyuv better than Matrox MJPEG? Well, Huffyuv is a lossless capture format used for creating great quality compressed files (MPEG is the common example, but RealMedia, WindowsMedia, QuickTime and other formats work as well). However, Huffyuv is NOT a playback format. Using it for creating tape transfers is not a good idea. For tape recording, I've yet to find something better than Matrox MJPEG. IMHO, Matrox MJPEG alone converts to a high quality MPEG as well.

[iparout]

QUOTE :
"The G400-TV (as well as the G200 and G450-eTV) can capture using Huffyuv"

You mean hardware Huffy capturing or software ?

[AndrewDV]

Huffyuv is always done through software. It is a very optimized capture codec. If you read the author's page, his machine is not exactly a powerful one. His goal is to create a high quality intermediate codec.

Here is the link
http://www.math.berkeley.edu/~benrg/huffyuv.html

Gotta go for now, but check out the other sites.

[iparout]

Well, Andrew, I'm a bit dissapointed with Marvel's incompatibility with Win2000. I think I'll go for something else. I'm very interested in Harware MJPEG capturing. ANY RECOMMENDATIONS ?

[AndrewDV]

Hi,

If you want the most flexibility (editing, OSs, support of all types of formats, etc.), you are going to have to look at software captures. A good TV Tuner card (ex: WinTV-Go + FM, WinTV-Theater, etc.) along with the PIC MJPEG (http://www.jpg.com) or Huffyuv codecs do great things for a cheap price.

The WinTV-Go + FM card costs about $49 and PIC MJPEG is about $18. Huffyuv is free, but donations are accepted. There are drivers for a majority of OS's out there.

IF you do go this path (and many users do), take your time with experimenting. It's cheap enough to allow this. Start off small with low-res video clips and play with different formats and such. When you get comfortable, take the money you save and get a large ATA100 hard drive for capturing along with a good editor. The bigger the drive you get, the better you'll be.

There is a lot of info on the vcdhelp site on how to use TV Tuner cards for capturing. Just surf the 'HOW TO' section (located on the left side of the page) for some info about it.

On the same topic, the Marvel G450-eTV is pretty much a package of a G450, TV Tuner/composite/svideo, cables, and video editor all in one package. You can buy it through online resellers for less than $200. If you are looking to upgrade your video card anyway, this is a good choice for a software-based solution. The DualHead feature is worth the money alone.

[Iview]

iparout,
If you are going to use software capture and encode, be prepare to upgrade you computer big time.
By the way you can edit DVC II's MPEG capture with some other MPEG editing program
1. Womble MPEG2VCR.
http://www.womble.com/
2. Mediaware Solutions M2-edit
http://www.mediawaresolutions.com/M2-edit.html

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Iview on 2001-08-22 02:51:40 ]</font>