PAL to NTSC

[jrv331]

Most of my source files are PAL. Since I live in the U.S. is it better to convert the output to NTSC? If so can I just load a NTSC template and encode or is it more involved?
Thanks again for all the groups help.
John

[bugster]

It depends what you want to do with this PAL source material. If your aim is to convert to (S)VCD or DVD take a look here:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/pal2ntsc/pal2ntsc.htm

[jrv331]

Basically I want to burn it and watch it on my tv and would like to know if I should convert it to NTSC since I live in the U.S. The templates come in several different sizes. 352x480,480x480 and704x576. Any chance of getting an explanation of what the sizes are for?
Thanks
Johh

[Xesdeeni]

The sizes you mention are not for VCDs. You didn't specify your source format or your desired destination format, but since this is VCDHelp.com, I'll assume VCDs for both . 352x480 can be used for xSVCD (non-standard SVCDs) or DVDs. 480x480 is for SVCDs. 704x576 is one of the supported PAL DVD formats. But for NTSC VCDs, the correct size is 352x240.

In all deference to the guide mentioned above, converting from progressive 25 Fps to progressive 29.97 Fps (VCDs are progressive) is not an appropriate conversion. In order to do it with any quality, you would need to actually create 29.97 new frames for each second based on the 25 frames provided. Full motion estimation/motion compensation engines would do the trick (with varying degrees of success), but the only ones available today are extremely expensive pieces of hardware. On the other end of the quality spectrum, you could just duplicate frames as necessary from the 25 source frames to get 29.97 frames on the destination. But with this approach (used by the above guide), motion and panning will have noticable jumps. You could then introduce some interpolation of the source frames in creating the destination frames to try to simulate the in-between frames (this is the technique used by the less expensive hardware converters). In some cases this looks better, but not too much. The effects will again be visible on motion or panning when parts of multiple source frames are visible in each destination frame (referred to as jutter).

A better technique is to convert your progressive 25 Fps to a progressive 23.976 Fps. When 24 Fps film is transferred to PAL, it is usually sped up by 4% (including audio) and shown at 25 Fps. You can reverse the process (plus a little bit more) to convert to NTSC. Even if the source was originally interlaced video, the interlaced part was lost when it was converted to VCD, so the same technique can be used!

Obtain and install the following tools:

· TMPGEnc – MPEG 1 and 2 encoder available at http://www.tmpgenc.net.
· AVISynth – A script-based video processing application available at http://www.avisynth.org.

And try the following:

I. PAL VCD (25 Fps) -> NTSC (Film) VCD (23.976 Fps)
1. Load the source DAT file into TMPGEnc as the “Video Source” (the “Audio Source” selection should automatically change to match the “Video Source.”).
NOTE: Cancel the Wizard dialog box which appears when you run TMPGEnc.
2. Select the “Wave file” item in the “Output to file” sub-menu of the “File” menu.
3. Choose a location and filename for the destination wav file.
4. Click “Save” to decode and convert the MPEG 1 audio to a temporary wav file.
5. Create and open a new text file with an AVS extension (to be used with AVISynth), using your favorite text editor.
6. Add the following lines, filling in the location and filename of the file you created above:

WAVSource(“DRIVE:\PATH\AVSEQxx.wav”)
ResampleAudio(Round(44100 * (25 / 23.976)))
AssumeSampleRate(44100)

7. Save the AVS file.
8. Load the AVS file created above into TMPGEnc as the “Audio Source.”
9. Load the “VideoCD (NTSCFilm)” template into TMPGEnc.
10. Specify the location and name of the “Output file name” with an MPG extension.
11. Choose “Motion estimate search (fast)” or “Highest quality (very slow)” in the “Video” tab of the “Setting” dialog.
12. Check the “Do not frame rate conversion” in the “Advanced” tab of the “Setting” dialog.
13. Press “Start” to convert, encode and multiplex the video and audio.

Then author and burn your NTSC VCD (I suggest using Nero available at http://www.nero.com).

NOTE: This procedure is part of a set of standards conversion methods that I am developing and hope to eventually post. This is by no means the only way to accomplish the conversions, but I believe it represents an excellent combination of ease and quality. Please provide any feedback to Xesdeen2001 at yahoo dot com.

Xesdeeni

[jrv331]

Now Im really messed up. My source video is a divix and its 576X240 @25fps.
The sizes I mentioned are from the KVCD templates that Im using. From some of the posting I have seen I should be converting to 29.9 . I guess where Im getting confused is that Im thinking that all vcd are mpeg1 and mpeg2 is scvd. I guess to get to the bottom line here- if I use the above mentioned source video and load the kvcdx2plus ntsc template into tmpge am I all set or is something else needed? The size of the resulting vidoe just doesnt look right on my tv.

Thanks for all the help
John
(more lost than ever)

[jrv331]

Sorry, forgot this part. If the template says its mpeg-1 704x480 23.97 fps can I just change the size to 480x480 to get a bigger picture or is 352x240.
thanks again
John

[0 kewl]

If you got PAL DivX files it is always better to do framerate conversion to NTSC before loading your file into TMPGEnc. Use this guide for conversion:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/userguides/78178.php

By the way, those templates from KWAG you're using will create a X(S)VCD in other words non-standard (S)VCD which isn't accepted by many players. Check whether yours supports it.

[jrv331]

My dvd player will support the kwag templates but not svcd. I was just looking for a way to get something better than the standard vcd teplates. I am using the kvcdx2 template that says "near dvd" quailty. Guess my hang up is for some reason Im thinking I shoud be using ntsc templates as I live in the U.S. even though my source is in pal. Maybe Im jsu not cut out for this. Thanks for all the help
John

[0 kewl]

If your player supports KWAG's templates but not SVCD ones then why don't you create a SVCD and demux it using (S)VCD "Header Trick" to VCD? Yes, you can load NTSC template for PAL source but in most cases it will result in jerky playback since TMPGEnc isn't good at converting framerate. Use the guide i mentioned in my previous post.

[jrv331]

I have created a few scvds and used tmpge's simple multiplex changing the header to mpeg1- non standard which worked for me. But aside from a larger file I saw no difference in video quality. Is demux different from that?
Thanks
john

[0 kewl]

I have created a few scvds and used tmpge's simple multiplex changing the header to mpeg1- non standard which worked for me. But aside from a larger file I saw no difference in video quality. Is demux different from that?

No, that's demux what you did. To get a better quality just increase the bitrate yourself since most KWAG's templates are for getting the most amount of data on a CDR with the highest quality possible. Just load NTSC SVCD temlate and increase bitrate (depending on what is the highest your player can accept) - this way you will probably need 3-4 CDRs per movie. After encoded just change the header to VCD non-standard.

[jrv331]

just a follow up question. After I do the simple multiples as mpeg1 nonstandard I use nero to beurn it as a vcd, non standard. Is it still really scvd? If I burn it as svcd, then uncheck nonstandard it wont work.
Thanks
John

[0 kewl]

It is XVCD now with SVCD quality so you have to burn it as VCD with compliancy off.

[jrv331]

Ok, last question. For the encode mode should I use deinterlace or interlace mode if its going to be viewed on tv. Most of my scvd templates change this to interlace while the vcd templates use deinterlace.
Thanks again for all the help
John

[0 kewl]

Depends on source - if progressive then non-interlace, if interlace then In Field Order box choose Bottom Field First (B).