ATI All in Wonder vs. Personal Cinema!

[24sevenpc]

If you own an AIW or a one of the new gforce 4 with personal cinema (at comprousa.com)
I want to capture video and im looking for a high quality capture card.I am willing to get a graphics card seperate if i have to but i believe the AGP slot is faster than the PCI
Thoughts?

[arealgijoe]

I have used ATI all-in-wonder cards for several years now. I have both PIC and AGP versions. They'er great IMO. I ahve had other older seperate capture cards, but not as nice as the AIW's. I don't normally use the Tv tunner unless I want to capture off the air. usually I use a VCR for that.

It works for me and has for several years, and have no reason to switch, yet.

I I get another faster system I expect I will get another one. (AGP of course).

JD

[Thorn]

I used an ATI AIW 128 pro for a few years with good results. However, the sound is MONO if you use the built-in tuner. I now use a Geforce4 (Gainward's 4200 with vivo). The capture quality for analog signals seems similar (I can't realy tell, I'd need to use the same clean source on both cards to get a good comparison). The new card doesn't have a tuner so I have to use my VCR to feed video and audio to the capture card and my audio card. That's inconvenient but at least it's stereo now becuse my VCR feed stereo into the sound card.

Bottom line, raw 720x480 video should be somewhere around 16MB/s if I remember correctly. Both PCI and AGP can handle that. One concern might be price. A stereo tuner card is $100 (US) and a mono one is about $50. Some card combos are a good deal, but I think the latest AIW is pretty expensive for what you get. My advice is try to get something that has just dropped in price because of the new cards from ATI thet have just come out.

[Akai Rounin]

VisionTek Xtasy Everything vs ATI All In Wonder 8500DV

I agree with arealgijoe, ATI is the way to go. You don't have to believe us though. Here, check out ExtremeTech's Ginsu Showdown: ATI vs nVidia, a feature-for-feature, head-to-head comparison between the two cards. That article, written in late 2001, is also mirrored HERE. You can find reviews at Tom's Hardware of the ATI All In Wonder 8500DV and VisionTek Xtasy Everything.

There are online stores that are selling the VisionTek Xtasy Everything for around $100 now. You can find the ATI All In Wonder 8500DV for around $160. Check PriceWatch.com for the best prices at store locations online.

Toyoniya Hiyaku, Noromuoy!

Akai Rounin, The Cyber Sage

[NOTE: Some unscrupulous characters took note that there is no obvious physical difference between the ATI AIW 7500 & 8500DV. So, they buy both from different locales, then return the 7500 in the 8500DV box.]

[Mirror_Image]

there is no obvious physical difference between the ATI AIW 7500 & 8500DV

You don't think the quite different tuner module and the firewire port are obvious differences?

Ok...

[Akai Rounin]

Sneak Thief...

Not much of a difference to most retailers, y'know the guys at Best Buy or CompUSA (so I have heard). The DV port is on the breakout box, not the card itself. Most retailers would not bother to look at the connectors until after someone had left the store. At most, a quick glance at the contents of the box, just to make sure you had returned ~*something*~ would be it. A smaller, mom & pop shop would likely be more careful concerning returns. Yes, we here would know the differences, we are techies. We'd actually count the amount and type of RAM chips, take note of the different tuner casing and make sure the breakout box had the DV port.

HUN-YA!

Akai Rounin

[Mirror_Image]

Good point! I e-mailed the info to Best Buy and ATI as a caveat for their returns policy (BB) and reseller relations (ATI). The more of this kind of thing they miss, the higher they raise prices for everyone else to compensate for inventory shrinkage.

[Akai Rounin]

Oops! I was wrong, there is a DV port on the 8500DV card itself. There is a SECOND DV port on the breakout box. Still, it is at the very bottom of the connectors, most would never notice it wasn't there if a 7500 were returned instead.

Me? I've got scruples, so no, I didn't use this "Surprise Exchange" maneuver. When I found the ATI All In Wonder 8500DV online for $165 that was well within my willingness limit to purchase.

Here are pics of the two boards, obviously different to us, not so for the masses.

ATI All In Wonder Radeon 8500DV

ATI All In Wonder Radeon 7500

HUN-YA!

Akai Rounin

[Mirror_Image]

I found the ATI All In Wonder 8500DV online for $165

The prices on the 8500DV certainly are driven into the basement by the 9xxx cards. You just can't beat the 8500DV with a steel pipe these days. Firewire, TV, capture, decent gaming muscle, less than $200, a very good deal (all things considered).

[Thorn]

ATI is the way to go. You don't have to believe us though. Here, check out ExtremeTech's Ginsu Showdown: ATI vs nVidia, a feature-for-feature, head-to-head comparison between the two cards.

What? That article not only said *nothing* substantial about capture quality, it was also comparing completely different card generations AND classes (MX is the low-end for geforce, and the current gen is 4):

The All-in-Wonder DV is based on a slightly down-clocked version of the Radeon 8500 chip, whereas the Xtasy Everything is based on nVidia's GeForce 2 MX400

If you're paying $163 for the 8500, why not spend $10 more and just get the gainward 650 (a Geforce4 TI 4200 with vivo)? The ONLY reason I see to get one of the newer cards is graphics performance (because capture quality has remained about the same), and for the Geforce is about 30% faster than the non-AIW (so it could be a LOT faster than the AIW 8500 - The AIW 7xxx and 8xxx series do not use the same graphics chips as the non-AIW ones).

The only advantages the AIW 8500 has are a built in tuner (at least it's stereo), and the DV. Firewire is not an issue -- you can buy firewire cards for $15. If you capture a lot of TV and don't want to pass through your VCR it is good, but if you capture digital/satellite TV then the tuner is worthless anyway.

Bottom line is the 8500 is a solid card but overpriced (yes that could change) and underpowered for gaming. If you're not interested in gaming at all get one of the older ATI cards -- far better deal for what you get.

[falberni]

Hi all,

I'd be very interested in a comparison between the DVD playback quality of ATI 8500 cards vs. nVidea's Ti4200 cards, like the Gainward that was mentioned in the other post. Thanks.
Fred

[Sulik]

DVD playback & video quality has always been better on the ATI boards
(check avsforum.com). There are 3 main reasons for this:

1) ATI has 10-bit high quality DACs
2) It has better on-board analog circuitry than most NVidia-based cards
3) It has hardware iDCT for MPEG decode

[Akai Rounin]

To Each His Own...

Thorn: Sorry if you thought I was being unfair. The fact is, I have not paid much attention to the nVidia GeForce releases that have appeared after the GeForce3. Basically, I had no pressing need for the GeForce3, so I certainly don't need the GeForce4. The initial stratospheric pricing of GeForce4 cards were not in my price range. I know that GeForce4 MX cards are generally less powerful and more expensive than GeForce3 Ti cards. I know that GeForce4 Ti cards are generally more capable for gaming than ATI Radeon 8500 series boards. But to my knowledge no one had topped ATI for its Swiss Army Knife, All-In-Wonder capabilities and I stand by that assessment.

I can't tell people what I don't know. I do know that ATI's All-In-Wonder series is superb, making the grade in more than one arena. I had no idea there were any Video In Video Out (VIVO) solutions available using the GeForce Ti 4200 chipset and certainly had no knowledge they were anywhere near affordable. The most that has been published online is in regard to the VisionTek Xtasy Everything, and it is the only nVidia based VIVO card that I have seen readily available at a variety of retailers here in SoCal. I remembered that article, and mentioned it was written several months ago. There was another, but I could not remember where I read it.

I do have experience with a Pinnacle Studio PCTV card that my younger Brother uses on his AMD Athlon XP 1500+ system. I know that its performance and bundled software package doesn't come close to what my ATI All In Wonder 128 16MB AGP did on my old Dell Pentium II 266 MHz system. I presume from what I have read in reviews of various VIVO hardware in times past that no other cards have gotten any closer to matching ATI than the VisionTek Xtasy Everything with Personal Cinema.

I will soon build an AMD Athlon XP 2200+ system and I have chosen the ATI All In Wonder Radeon 8500DV as its graphics card. I highly recommend the choice of this card to any and all who intend to use their computer for a variety of tasks as I will. If someone has even less need of gaming horsepower than I do, and doesn't need DV input, I would certainly recommend ATI All In Wonder Radeon 7500 over the VisionTek Xtasy Everything. Once more, I cannot compare the capabilities of the ATI VIVO solutions to GeForce4 VIVO products I knew nothing about.

Toyoniya Hiyaku, Noromuoy!

Akai Rounin, The Cyber Sage

[ATI has bin belly belly good two me!]

[Thorn]

No offense taken... I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions on the capabilities and values of the cards.
Both nVidia and ATI put out a variety of products for similar prices but some of the products have misleading names. For instance... the Geforce4 MX series is inferior to the Geforce3 as you said (They're based on Geforce2 and have little in common with the Geforce4 TI series) whereas the 8500 AIW that I considered buying has a crippled chip compared to the regular 8500 (but is still superior to the MX cards). Even though I'm techlologically adept I still have to work to find accurate specifications and honest comparisons so I know the average user is screwed... and I think media departments at big companies want it this way.

Anyway, it all depends on the features so we all choose our cards for our own reasons.

BTW there was a writeup on the new Geforce4 cards (mostly 4600 but it's similar to the 4200s) at www.Tomshardware.com (don't remember where, do a search). That site is a great resource for reviews and comparisons of cards (and a multitude of other things).

[ya_jai]

May I add something here.

I recently bought AIW 8500DV just becuz I need to transfer/capture from DV cam. I already had ATI rage pro in my system as a graphic card. I paid $180 at bestbuy (after 10% off coupon) and I think it's worth every pennies. Here is why.
1. I got 2 firewire port which work perfectly for my purpose.
2. I got a TV tunner. Which I might capture from my TV cable soon.
3. I got a new better graphic card than the old one.
4. I got a pretty decent software (Ulead video studio6) and games (I don't play PC game).
5. I also got i-link cable.

You guys might say if I bought seperate card (firewire card and tv tuner) it probably be cheaper. In my a little math, I would paid $30-40 for firewire card, another $50-100 for TV tuner with stereo sound, and I still had to pay another $30-50 for i-link cable. So total if I bought seperately would be around $110-190. That why I love this card.

NOTE: Compusa sell ATI AIW 8500 128MB for only $149 this week. First I think I would go get this card instead but It doen't have firewire port so I have to live with 8500DV