TV card or PVR card? Whats the difference?

[dlewis187]

I need to record TV on the PC and am not sure if I should get a plain old $50 PCI TV card or a $170 Hauppauge PVR like card. The way I see it is that a TV card would use the system processor and software to encode mpeg. The PVR card would seem to do this onboard, thus freeing the system cpu. My questions is that typically gives better quality? Which is more compatable? How much CPU does a TV card need to equal a PVR card? I have a PIII 550, will upgrading to a 2ghz make a difference with this issue? Thankx for info

[fmctm1sw]

How much CPU does a TV card need to equal a PVR card? I have a PIII 550, will upgrading to a 2ghz make a difference with this issue? Thankx for info

I can only answer this one thing for you. I have a Wintv radio card that performs quite well I think. The amount of cpu used depends on a couple different things. I know one is the resolution you are capping at and one other one is if you use any kind of compression. I have a celeron 366 @433 and I can cap at 480 by 480 with picvideo compression of 18 or 19. That's pushing it, but it will do it with hardly any frame drops. A faster cpu wouldn't hurt, I'm sure.

[dlewis187]

Thankx for the reply. So you are saying that a faster processor would allow me to capture at a higher resolution? IC. So then whats the point of a PVR card? Also what is the resolution of SVCD's?

[SHS]

dlewis187 if not a one thoses lucky PAL user you my as well forgot SVCD and Higher no matter how fast your CPU is and Yes that rigth having HW MPEG2 encode dose cut down on a lot CPU usage as for quality 97% of user that own one didn't see any diff vs Software captuer and encoding.

[dlewis187]

SHS
Why would I forget SVCD? I download SVCD TV rips all the time? I don't understand what you mean? Most cannot tell the diff between software and hardward encoding? How fast of a processor do I need to not be able to tell the difference? I have a PIII 550. I could probably upgrade my cpu to 1ghz for $100 if it would make a difference. Right now I am leaning away from the Hauppauge PVR cuz it does not work with 3rd party software. But I am wondering if I will be loosing functionality?

I wish this TV card was a simple thing, but its complicated.

[Necromancyr]

As a genaral rule (I'm SURE there are exceptions) software compression is better then hardware compression. The reason basically being that the software compression can undergo filtering, optimization, etc., while the hardware encoding is done 'on-the-fly' as it were.

If your planning on doing some serious captures (high quality) and are willing to capture first to an uncompressed format, you will get better quality going the software route as opposed to hardware.

With that said, there's also the issue of the quality of the picture/capture the card itself does - completely overlooking encoding at all.

[SHS]

Most thoses SVCD capture I have scene from thoses bootlegger where record at lower frame size like 352x240 then they convert it up to SVCD.
SVCD is waste of time and take to min disk for one moive or 2hour show when you start add up the cost of disk vs VCD this can add up over time.

DVD Burner are the way to go and the price just drop down to $350 USD or lees if shop around you get HQ Video with DVD disk and you can pack 2 full hour on one disk.

Why say forget SVCD there is a good change you will not be able to record 480x480 or 576 heck I can't even do with my system and she had 1.6GHz CPU I alway get frame drop all over the place.

As for 3rd party software, Why the other apps work with PVR 250 well that eazy it only output MPEG1/2 stream where all reg TV card only output YUV stream or in your case it RAW AVI.

Yes you be loosing functionality by not going with HW encoder
1: You need lot of disk space to rec AVI and that dose count the editing space you need.
2: You be spent more time encode the clip to SVCD
You be lucky to do one or two show every day depend on how long they are.
Let start with a 2hour show cap well there 2hour all ready gone next edit the clip that can take up 30 to 45min recording new file now let start convert that AVI over to MPEG oh that may take you abut 5 to 9 hours to do well there go your whole day.

[SHS]

I have two clip below from the PVR 250 review them
VCD 10.6MB
SVCD 23MB
Tell me what you think of them dlewis187

[dlewis187]

[Most thoses SVCD capture I have scene from thoses bootlegger where record at lower frame size like 352x240 then they convert it up to SVCD.
]

Well when someone posts "VCD" quality to the newsgroups, it looks like a vhs tape. When some posts "SVCD" quality it looks much better, near dvd quality. Thats all I know.

I will have to test your two files when I get home as my work box does not have all the codes/software installed.

I am waiting till the pioneer 4x burner comes out before I buy dvd. In the mean time cd's is just fine, as long as they do not look like vhs

Ya I understand about the PVR250 using a different chip then the rest. Is there any PVR card out that will work with 3rd party software?

Hardware endoer looks good, but ever since I had probs with my ATI software and my All-in-wonder pro Ive been using PowerVCR and love it. I just hate being locked into one piece of software.[/quote]

[dlewis187]

With that said, there's also the issue of the quality of the picture/capture the card itself does - completely overlooking encoding at all.

Any recomendation as to which TV card does a better job quality wise?

[leebo]

A word of caution:

Necromancyr is refering to converting to mpeg AFTER capture!

The problem with capturing to mpeg2 directly using software is that your CPU will NEVER give you the quality of a hardware encoder.

I have a 1.2 Ghz Athlon w/512megs and the quality is sh*t (ATI AIW Radeon).
Dropped frames, freezing, strobing during pans, buggy software, etc.

I've played with this set-up for over a year, changing drivers, motherboards, capturing software, etc., and recently gave up on it.

I had planned on getting the Hauppage 350, but since it dosn't exist (and I have my doubts that it ever will), I wen't with a TIVO and set top DVD recorder.

[SHS]

There are "3" 3rd party software that do make use of a few Hardware MPEG encoder for capturing directly MPEG.
Adobe Premiere, If there a plug-in drv for it most lee very highend capture card costing lot of money.
Ulead DVD MovieFactory (3 very old MPEG1 capture card).
Sonic MyDVD (Dazzle DVC2, Dazzle Hollywood Bridge, V One Multimedia Snazzi III, ADS USB Instant DVD).

As for other HW PVR card not a one out there has any 3rd party software support.

[energy80s]

I have two clip below from the PVR 250 review them
VCD 10.6MB
SVCD 23MB
Tell me what you think of them dlewis187

What was the source for these captures? A DVD player?

[SHS]

energy80s thoses are skittelsen capture both of them I think there both done off Cable or was it DirecTV or it was DishNetwork read here to find out.
http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=98514

[energy80s]

I noticed pixellation on them (especially the SVCD one) so if it's off digi cable/satellite then that would explain it as the picture is usually shite to begin with!

[Necromancyr]

A word of caution:
Necromancyr is refering to converting to mpeg AFTER capture!

The problem with capturing to mpeg2 directly using software is that your CPU will NEVER give you the quality of a hardware encoder.

Here it is broken down, from best quality to worst:

- Capture unencoded (HuffyUV, etc) then do a software encode.
- Hardware Encoded DURING Capture
- Software Encoded DURING capture


The difference between the first and second items can be DRASTIC. But, again, it depends on what you are doing - archiving video (where you want high quality) or just trying to capture a TV show really fast.

As for cards - I can't really say. I would read their forums for a few days before you buy any cards to see what the problems are with it and if they company addresses them. For instance, I have a pinnacle card - they have a card that does great captures...when it works. Their drivers are horrendous, their software is horrendous, and their support is non-existant. Knowing this before I got the card would have probably changed my mind about getting it or waiting to get another brand.

[dlewis187]

Well thankx all for the info, I'm gona go with the TV only card and do software encodes. Now I just need to decide which turner to get.

[lusid]

In that case any BT8x8 card should do ok, just decide what extras you want. Some come with IR Remotes, some have FM tuners, and then theres some cheapo ones that don't even have stereo tv reception.

Look at hauppauge and Avermedia. Avoid ATI.