CVD without s-video in

[rglmrj]

I have many family videos on VHS tape and video-8 (PAL)
Some of them with noise and some without.
I want to save them for the future.

PC: AMD 1800+ with Hauppauge WINTV

I can capture in high-res (704x576 or 352x576) with huff but I can't use s-video in.
I have tried many things in virtualdub like deinterlace and resize (352x288)
I have tried many formats VCD, SVCD, XVCD but when I compare them with the source there is much or less loss.
What I want is to save these videos on cd's with less loss of quality (although noise) and the guarantee that I can play them in the future.

Now I have read about the format CVD in the forum.(satstorm)
Is it possible to make this format without the use of s-video in?
Does it have any sense to make a CVD with my source tapes?
I have tried but the videos are with stripes and jerky on my dvd-player (Cyberhome).

[ralfbeckers]

I have the same card in mine. I use the S-Video input with virtual dub. Since I only have an Athlon 800 I must capture in half resolution otherwise I get dropeed frames. I found the quality fair enough for lowband signals such as the analog outputs from my DV cam and LD player. Capturing at full resolution with virtual dub seems to introduce the most aweful combing artefacts due to the interlaced nature of the source. Obviously, capturing in half resolution records only a single field (much like VCD internally) which is progressive. The resulting 25fps AVI can then easily be converted to a VCD with TMPGEnc. If you have letterboxed content, you can even make an anamorphic VCD from it by using clipping without masking. This will at least avoid the scn lines during playback.

But may be I misread your problem alltogether.

[rglmrj]

I don't have this problem with VCD. Only with S(X)VCD and CVD.
The Quality in VCD is for me not good enough.

[Nelson37]

Although S-Video will give you a better image, there is no relationship between type of connection and format of Video. You should be able to change the input type in Vdub.

Your problem sounds like interlacing and field order, both of which go away in VCD. Reverse field order to fix jerkiness. Many methods to deinterlace, depends on source and personal taste.

[anti-alias]

CVD is not related to s-video. It is basically just SVCD but with a different horizontal resolution.

I capture from an analog source over RCA cables as well and have had really good luck with CVD (352x480 NTSC) .... I really can't tell the difference between it and SVCD (480x480 NTSC) when played back on my DVD/TV.

But if you aren't having luck with SVCD then CVD isn't really going to help much. I'm surprised you see that much of a quality drop. Assuming your AVI capture is very close the the original, your re-encode to MPEG2 should be pretty good w/ TMPGenc. VCD, on the otherhand, is a huge loss in my opinion.

[rglmrj]

I know that I can change the connection but in the forum Satstorm described that when you want to make a CVD (not VCD) you must capture with s-video in.

[Nelson37]

REPEAT - There is no direct correlation whatsoever between type of input cable connection and encoding format. S-video gives a better signal and is ofter found on higher-resolution equipment but it does not signify or convey any difference in the incoming stream other than losing slightly less of it.

I believe the confusion lies with mistaking SVHS for S-VIDEO. An SVHS player DOES have a higher resolution than VHS, and almost certainly will have an S-VIDEO connector, But a VHS may also have an S-VIDEO connector, with no benefit to the resolution, only the signal.

[rglmrj]

Nelson37 Thank You for your explanation.

Does anyone have experience with the CVD format encoded from a
vhs capture.
I capture with 352x576 huff but when I encode with TMPGENC with the settings described by Satstorm the CVD shows stripes on my standalone DVD player (Cyberhome).
With the same capture it is no problem to make a VCD after deinterlace and resize but the quality is not good enough for me.

[Guyver]

I've done some CVD encodes from VHS. I've noticed that they look beter when deinterlacing first but that's a personal opinion.

The stripes you mention i haven't noticed though (also have a cyberhome). Also I use CCE instead of TMPGenc so that might have something to do with it.

Also how did you do the muxing?

[anti-alias]

I encoded VHS to CVD no problem. I have slightly different setup as I capture directly to MPEG2 with a DVC2. But I am capturing at 10mb VBR in 720x480 --- almost lossless. I then use TMPGENC to re-encode to CVD

I'd recommend working on getting the SVCD to look right first. Then all you do is lower the resolution without touching anything else.

You should not have stripes. Be sure you are encoding SVCD stream and that your bitrate is not out of the SVCD spec. Make sure you have picked the field order correctly on the advanced tab.

I wonder if you are mixing NTSC and PAL standards. That would give any DVD player a headache.

[SatStorm]

The S-Video gonna give you more quality, but RCA composite isn't bad for capture also.
In fact, with a good cable and short distance (less than 75cm) between a VCR and your PC, both connection types (s-video/composite) gonna look almost as good for quality. S-Video makes the real difference in quality with S-VHS tapes.
I also have a hauppauge win tv primio fm without the s-video in, only the rca composite in. I grabb with virtualdub @ 352 X 576 with Huffyuv codec or mjpeg (19 value) and then I encode to xSVCD (352 X 288 @1300 average bitrate). I don't de-interlace, I feed the encoder (latest tmpegenc plus) crop whatever is not nessarry on the avi and I hit encode with my selfmade D4SVCD templates. That way, I have identical mpegs with the original VHS tape, but I am -X- because my older Cyberhome model supports that kind of xSVCD. New cyberhomes don't that easy.
If filesize doesn't bother you, then CVD is a good way to go, with an average of 2450 at least. Be carefull with the field order, a VCR with TBC gonna help you a lot with this...

[rglmrj]

to Guyver:
What is muxing?

to Satstorm:
I have also a older Cyberhome.
Can You send me your selfmade D4SVCD template by email?
For me it is also important that I can play the vcds in the far future, maybe CVD is then better?

[SatStorm]

@rglmrj: Use Sefy's SxVCD template you can find in the tools page of vcdhelp. It is almost identical mine. Also visit www.cyberhome-help.de to get the most of your standalone
CVD is a good choice yes. I prefer the -X- way for my reasons

[Guyver]

@rglmrj


Muxing is the mixing of the audio and video stream. When i first started doing SVCDs I had a problem with jumpy picture and sound sometimes. I found out that if i demuxed the movie first and then remuxed it again it would play perfectly(don't have a clue why), it also seems to keep most sync problems out of the way. You can do this with the build in mpeg tools in tmpgenc.

[rglmrj]

I have found the reason why the vcd shows stripes.
I have captured and encoded to CVD with the same settings from my VCR and now its ok.
The other capture was directly from my Sony video8 camcorder, but I don't know why this gives such a wide horizontal stripes??
I have discovered that some tapes (new) drop frames with capturing although my PC is fast enough??

[mickle]

I capture from satellite via 5 meter long composite cables to 352x576 huffy, then edit in premiere, and frameserve to cce using 4 pass vbr. The sound is converted to mp2 with bsweet and then muxed with bbmpeg. My CVD's look very good and personlly I can see no difference to svcd.

I actually make cvd's because one of my capture card sizes is 352x576 so it saves resizing whilst converting.

Mike

[jonhildrum]

I have been copying some old tapes to DVD using Composite. I capture mpeg2 using composite (short cable) at high quality DVD.

I then use either TMPGENC (or Moviefactory) to change the change to 1/2dvd (352X480). The result is quite good. I see no significant difference between the source tape and the DVD when viewed on my TV.